Downgraded by US Airways
 

I was flying (with my wife) from DCA to LAS with US Airways with a connection throughout CLT.
Booked First Class A ticket online. I am a BA EC Gold/One World Emerald member.

Our flight from DCA to CLT was delayed (more than 2 hours) because of a technical problem on the aircraft. They switched us to another plane but subsequently we missed our connection from CLT to LAS.

In CLT they put us on another flight to LAS in economy. Mind you, it is a 4.5 hour flight! I spoke to customer relations desk in CLT and asked them if there is any sort of compensation for this downgrade and they said no. I said I will take another route to LAS but on first but they were a little rude and kept denying any of my requests. I asked for the supervisor and she told me that I have upgraded to first and that is why I am not entitled for any comp. I explained to her that I did not get upgraded! I bought the ticket online. Then she changed the tune about if they provide me with an alternative flight they do not owe me anything, regardless of what class travel my alternative flight is.

What do you guys think?

As this applies to US Airways, I'll move the thread to that forum.


aztimm

That's unfortunately how american airlines work now...

They complementary upgrade their status customers up to 72hrs before the flight in F-cl. On the day of departure most F-cl cabines were fully booked. If somebody with a paid F-cl needs to be involuntary rerouted, no seats in F-cl were empty. And they don't downgrade the status holders with free upgrade and paid Y-cl ticket, they prefer to downgrade the real F-cl customers...

I personally don't understand that! I mean upgrades are OK, but if somebody with a paid F-cl ticket needs to be booked on such a flight, complementary upgrades should be downgraded first (to what they paid for their ticket)...

To clarify, this is how US Airways works. AA only offers complimentary upgrades for EXP or PLT/GLD traveling in full fare economy. Additionally, EXPs clear up to 100 hours from departure.

The OP purchased what is called an instant upgrade fare. Though they're marketed as F, it's in fact a Y fare with an instant upgrade to F. Under normal conditions you will always be seated in the F cabin, however in IRROPS when switching to another flight, there must be seats available in the F cabin, otherwise you will be seated in Y as that is the true fare you're on. As Air Rarotonga said, due to complimentary upgrades for all levels of elites on US Airways, the F cabin usually goes out full long before IRROPS occur and this leaves customers on instant upgrade fares SOL.

I believe this is extremely misleading to the customer and airlines should not be allowed to sell these fares as first class. AA used to actually call them 'instant upgrade' on their website, however that terminology has seemingly disappeared. Delta does the exact same thing. Poor business if you ask me. :td:

Not correct. AA offers elite upgrades from all fares, even the cheapest ones.

Yes, but not complimentary ones. As far as I'm aware, PLT and GLD still need to use stickers for upgrades if they are not travelling full fare.

If I knew that this is an instant upgrade, then I wouldn't have bought it. I usually buy full fare First class, its not a big difference in price. Actually the fare I bought said non refundable First class as up posed to the flexible first. there was no mention that it was any sort of upgrade. I was sure of the dates of my travel, so I decided to buy the cheaper one as there was no reason to pay extra when I was sure of my dates (I had date sensitive commitments).

When you buy a non refundable first class, it still is a first class ticket!

This sort of ticket is available irrespective of your membership status, so in no way is this an upgrade.

Was the DCA-LAS nonstop not offered on the day you flew?

It was no offered. I would have loved to fly direct!

There is quite a big difference in price; the cheapest instant upgrade base fare is $772 vs $1617 for a 1st class fare that is not an upgrade fare

It sucks, but in the USA airlines can get away with this so called claim that it is not a 1st class fare but an upgrade and the refund should get downgraded is quite pitiful

Actually when I bought the tickets, the difference was around $300 - $400 for each ticket. However, the difference between Y and A was substantial. We bought a one way ticket, not a return.

It really is a pity how they treat their customers. I use US airways almost exclusively when I fly within the conus since I am based in PHX when in the US. The supervisor did not care at all to what my membership status was. It was really disappointing.

That is the 1 way fares that I listed. If you paid $1400 ish for the one way fare , then indeed only about $300-$400 less than an F fare.All of the 'A' fares listed are Instant Upgrade fares; it is only the F fares that are truly 1st class fares - plus are fully refundable so if an airline pulls such a trick, easy to refund and go to another airline

Membership status has no bearing on fare rules

It is dismal that the airlines can get away with it in the US and that there is no proper protection against it

Agreed. I've complained to the DOT about this practice before but about Delta which does the exact same thing. DOT seemed uninterested. Perhaps more people need to flood them with complaints.

I sent US Airways a complaint 3 days ago. So far no reply!

Yes. And they're issued complimentary stickers for every 10K miles they fly. And their upgrades off of the cheap fares can clear as early as 72 hours before their first flight (24 hours for Gold).

The point is that this isn't the same as unlimited complimentary upgrades for all elites. Using stickers to upgrade (whether they were earned or purchased) does not make it complimentary as stickers have value and must be traded in exchange for an upgrade. This is very different from the unlimited complimentary upgrade systems at DL, US, and UA which allow all levels of elites space available upgrades at any time without the need for an instrument.

Always check your fare class prior to purchase, to get shifted from one flight to other you will need to have either an F,A,C,Z. If the fare class is O or P ... not going to happen. If use miles, it needs to be I class. Listed here (http://cwsi.net/usair.htm) if you want to see the fare class definition for yourself.

+-ADT

Give them time. Most airlines usually say they will respond in 30 to 60 days but I've found its almost always sooner.

+1!

I am sorry but I can't agree your advice. If I book a F-cl ticket on the airline site and get offered an up-fare without any notice (what is the case with most airlines offering it), then i also expect the same service behind, if any irregularity happens... How should a customer find out that he just bought an up-fare without indication??? It's not the customers duty to make researches about the fare, it would be the airlines obligation to inform the vustomer - in an appropriate way - before he buys it...

I had an A class ticket!

Looking at fares on that route, all the A fares seem to be instant upgrade fares

How much was the fare?

None of this really matters as there wasn't space in F for OP. Had he paid full F,he would have been entitled to a refund of the fare difference.

But, if wanting to sit in F, the only real alternative was to sit in CLT until a flight with space opened up. Because of the complimentary UG system, that's likely to be a few days.

Around $700 for each ticket, one way.

In which case it wouldn't have been about $300 extra for a ticket in F class but more like $850 per ticket

UA also does the same thing. There's been a lot of discussion about similar fares on AA (P fares). "Instant upgrade", but that terminology has disappeared, making it even more misleading.

Doesn't US have a downgrade kit like UA does? IIRC, UA offers a downgrade kit - there's a specific code for SHARES out there that some FF'ers know (it's floating around in the UA forum), which entitles downgraded customers to compensation ($200-500, methinks). I'm not sure about DL, but from what I've heard, DL and pmAA usually is good about offering the difference between the 'upgrade' fare and Y, although oftentimes the difference isn't that substantial, or in a few cases, Y being higher.

Also, shouldn't US hold 1-2 F seats for last-minute purchasers/IRROPs? I believe AA does that - they often hold 1-2 F seats for sale/IRROPs up to 30 minutes before boarding, then they close the flight and process the remaining upgrades, if nobody has purchased the last several seats, or if nobody from IRROPS had taken the seats.

Actually, no, the refundable first was for $1100. You can check it online, it still is the same price.

Being refundable does not stop it being an instant upgrade

e.g. AA00ZRH1 base fare $1049 is both refundable and instant upgrade

The F fare for DCA-LAS F6 fare which is not classified as an instant upgrade fare is base of $1872

This is what is on their website when you ask for a First class ticket, only two categories, non refundable and flexible:


I bought the 784, non refundable and the other option was $1,177 for the flexible first!

I know what I bought. It's not the first time that I travel. I bought a first class ticket with no mention of instant upgrade!

They are cheating people out of their money when they act this way with their customers! Everything should be clear not he website when you purchase your ticket It is not your duty to research what they mean with the terms they use and the code they use on their website.

The flexible fare at $1177 is still classified as an instant upgrade fare - just that it is refundable; on flight details it does state "First (A)" where A is the booking class

I agree that it is very poor that the airline is not clearly stating the details - my point is that you would have had to pay over double the price to get a fare which is not classified as such; I do not support the way that the airline treats instant upgrade fares

If you know what you bought, then you know it was an instant upgrade fare :)

I will also agree that the US site seems to hide the information much more than AA does on its site; if you want an F fare, then the website is not the best place to book it

There is no mention of any fare but these 2 that I listed. I know what I bought, means, I bought a first class ticket. I am a traveler, not an airline specialist that is supposed know about all the different letters (A, F, Y etc..) on fares. So yes, I do know what I bought, a first class ticket, direct from the US Airways website where there is no mention of anything other than "First class" on both categories, with flexible and non refundable as the options.

You booked a ticket that provides for travel in 1st class

If for some reason you cannot be accommodated in 1st , then these fares don't allow much for a refund; it sucks

If you don't want to understand why, then posting about and asking for peoples' views is perhaps not the way to go

I would suggest that for future purchases, rather than book online, phone US and as for a ticket which is in booking class F and then you will not have this issue ; it will likely mean however that for 99% of trips where there is no disruption, that you will be paying a lot more for your tickets

One day maybe DOT will instigate something similar to the EU rules on downgrades and then the airlines will lilkely be much more careful at avoiding downgrading passengers

In my past experience, DL was actually quite awful with this, very similar to the OP's situation with US. US should hold a few F for last minute, AA certainly does on most of the flights that I've been on. The big difference here is comp. upgrades vs instrument upgrades. Many AA flights depart with empty seats up front whereas I'm not sure I've ever seen a US flight with empty F in my time on US. Granted, I've flown AA far more. I believe AA has to hold 1 or 2 seats back for AAirpass members also if I recall correctly.

Its not that I do not want to understand. I am talking from a regular US airways consumer point of view. I do not understand codes and I am not supposed to understand codes. The airlines should be transparent with their consumers. If they want us to call US airlines to get a "full" first class ticket, then they should mention it on their website. I feel that I have been cheated with their hidden language on their website. Now, if you do not want to understand this, then maybe you don't want to look at the situation from a consumer's point of view.

What you previously explained about the different levels might be very true but that is beside the point. The point is that as a regular consumer, I was cheated into buying something that is different than what was stated on the US Airways website.

I hope this clarifies my point.

Granted you have every right to feel you've been cheated, however, that does not change the facts that they were within the rules to do what they did. You may not like it, but it is up to you to know the codes, they are part of the contract you agreed to regardless of what portions you chose to read.

Agreed, they should be more transparent, but the industry has built many rules solely to protect themselves. Until enough people complain it will continue. Expect government intervention to take a long time. Consumer protection has migrated to protecting businesses from consumers.

A well worded complaint might get you some traction, but don't expect it. As the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

For the OP: did they tell you when you could fly in First? In other words did they tell you how long you'd have to wait to get a seat in First even if it was three days?

For everyone else: maybe I'm just not seeing it but where on usairways.com during the purchase does it tell you the fare rules? I see the fare basis (for example AAUUPNH) but how would I know as the average consumer that it's an instant upgrade and that in the event of IROPS I might have problems getting a seat in FC? Obviously if there are no seats, it doesn't matter the fare type but I'm talking about the OP's situation where the employees are just going to tell me "too bad, so sad" because it's not really a FC ticket.

While US may be technically "right", I totally see the OP's perspective. About 10+ years ago, US had the fare codes for tickets available on its website, and so it was feasible to see both the price of the ticket and the fare code. With fare codes gone and only "Coach" or "First" (flexible/nonrefundable) available to indicate what you're buying, who other than a Flyertalk expert would know that a FC ticket really a coach ticket?

One source of confusion (IMO) is that the rightmost column, which is usually the most expensive, says "First", and often says refundable, is not in fact full fare F. AA does not present the web customer with a full unrestricted F option in most cases, all of the F fares shown are instant upgrade fares. So, folks walk away thinking they must have bought F since they bought the most expensive choice.

AA has a caveat at the bottom of the screen, but the caveat is always there down in the "fine print" regardless of what you pick along with other thing that may or may not apply to your choice. A more consumer friendly method would be to say, directly on the part of the web page you are clicking on, "Instant Upgrade". They could even say "Instant Upgrade!" with a smiley face to make it upbeat and sound like "Super deal! Yay!". But they don't.

Personally, I agree that it is a misleading and deceptive practice, but as an airline AA isn't subject to normal consumer protection rules.

I also agree that the rationale that a normal consumer should of course know the difference between F, A, P, and so forth is ... err ... not exactly consumer friendly (see "misleading and deceptive", above).

You are absolutely, positively correct in your comments. Many threads on FT about the "deceptive" nature of these fares.

As a new to US Air (or AA) flyer subject to irrops you found the problem quickly. On 99% of flights it's not an issue.

I now always look before paying. If it says refundable then it's probably a F fare if it is not refundable then it's probably an upgrade.

Deceptive and annoying I agree.

I don't understand why US would have a policy that would antagonize people who really are paid first-class passengers, even if they are "officially" coach fares. These kinds of stunts could be done with regular Ma and Pa Kettle travelers and the wallets of the people who are antagonized aren't that full- but to antagonize high-dollar passengers seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I am a consumer and manage to make informed choices every day. If I do not understand what I am being offered I take to the time to clarify and check. It really is not a difficult thing to do.If I make the wrong choice then i accept the responsibility for that error and do not try to dump it elsewhere.

Yet you appear to be going out of your way to make sure you do not.

If you admit to not understanding codes and see no good reason for you to educate yourself before making a purchase then calling a sales person for clarification and guidance on which product to purchase would seem like common sense to me without the need for a website to treat me like a 5 year old and direct me to make that call. It is nothing to do with a consumers point of view it is all about your point of view. Millions of consumers manage to make the purchase and understand what they are buying every year.


Actually it is exactly the point, it would appear that you just do not want to agree with it because it does not fit with your view of the situation. You made a poor choice that did not fit with your needs and now want to lay the blame for that at the airlines door. A contract involves two parties each has a responsibility for understanding it.