Refused standby on non-stop "because it costs more"
 

Was at JFK yesterday, flying JFK-LAX-SFO in NC. Flight was @ 5:50, but there was UA863 JFK-SFO @ 5:20.

I approached the GA and explained I was flying to SFO via JFK and would like to standby for the non-stop.

GA: "It will cost more"

I then clarified I didn't want to do a confirmed change, just do free space available standby.

GA: "You could standby for an earlier JFK-LAX flight but you have to follow the same routing, the non-stop costs more"

The GA then went on to explain to be that "non-stops are always more expensive, that is why you picked the connecting flight right?"

In fact I paid more for the connection due to airport and federal taxes. At this point I am quite incredulous at what I am hearing. I ask for a supervisor.

Service director happens to be at the other desk and comes over. He then repeats almost verbatim what I was told by the GA. Gist of it, I cannot take the non-stop without paying todays non-stop fare. Standby has to be the same route.

I counter that you buy a ticket from origin to destination and that space available standby on day of departure to go from connecting to non-stop routing in completely allowed and I have done it many times.

He then gets the hump. Says he's been doing it for 15 years etc etc. Tells me the only way I am getting on that plane is if I pay.

I walk away in disbelief. Call the 1K desk. Agent is also in disbelief. I go back to the gate and tell the GA that I have the 1K desk on the phone and they say you can absolutely standby for a non-stop. She says she is happy to put me on the list if the 1K desk "authorize the reservation". After waiting for a 1K desk supervisor who could not believe that they needed authorization for standby, I was "authorized" and then added to the standby list.

I then cleared the list, upgraded to C and boarded whilst smiling at the SD.

Am I going crazy or are the UA JFK ground staff getting some bad training on UA policies. Or is p.s. that different?

Don't know the rules, but I did it a couple of times (standby with different routing). No issues.

Kindly "ask" the agent to "review" :D
S*FAR/STANDBY

The only time this type of standby is prohibited is when the rules of the fare you bought expllicitly prohibit travel on the flight for which you want to standby.

In my former life in public education we used to say that some teachers have 15 years of experience while others have 1 year of experience 15 times.

This employee apparently falls into the latter category. ;)

Good for you for pursuing it and eventually getting what you deserved. ^

I understand that but its not the case here. The GA told me this before even looking at my PNR. They (GA and SD) honestly believe one cannot standby for a non-stop when on a connecting flight. Just awful training really. I was already on p.s. I was on a JFK-SFO fare which allowed all p.s. flights and connections in various cities per the routing rules. I was not on a fare which specifically prohibited any p.s. flights. These folks honestly had little idea how airline fares work, as demonstrated by the following repeated statement.

"Nonstops cost more. That is why you booked the connecting flight right?" I was told this by both GA and SD. Err..no my ticket cost MORE than the non-stop :mad:

The SD then suggested that I "read the fine print" when buying a ticket. :rolleyes::mad:

I wonder how many people have paid a fare difference because of this lot? Completely inexcusable really.

Sorry you had such a bad experience. I try to avoid GA "can I change/stand-by" questions by asking at the check in counter; much more consistent treatment, without the hassle. In Jan, return flight was JFK-LAX-SFO; did OLCI, upgrade cleared and then went to airport a little earlier to see if I could change to the slightly earlier JFK-SFO NS flight, no problem & I had checked luggage + upgraded again. BTW, I did book it via LAX for the price!

There should be a "24hr flyertalk help chat" app for all smart phones for cases like this.

Receiving a link of the standby rules and showing it to his face would have given me satisfaction.

Can you describe the agents in question?

If so, please report them to 1KVoice. Continue to escalate until someone from the company's escalation CS gets involved.

I had a similar situation where an RCC agent insisted I had to pay an at airport ticketing fee (despite being a 1K). She swore up and down that not only had she been doing this for 10 years, but that she always charged 1Ks the fee.

Of course, a systemic effort like that starts to sound like fraud to me, so after getting the 1K desk on the line and sorting it out, I had a long, drawn out, but ultimately successful escalated email chain with United about it. The upshot - the first 2 agents on the email thread also were misinformed. So I managed to get 3 insistent and uninformed United folks "re-educated". :)

But it's always the least accurate who protest the loudest.

-G

Don't worry. I am drafting a response to UA presently. I have names of both GA and SD.

I remain convinced that the Major Airlines deliberately misrepresent the rules in order to get the inexperienced and uneducated flyer to pony up money that under the fare rules they shouldn't have to pay.

I've seen and heard this kind of crap to many times from every airline. Sure the Elites know and fight but the "kettles" have no earthly idea. I can not help but wonder how much revenue the Majors get from these deceptions.

Dear Winecountry,

Thanks for the clarification (just printed out the link & will keep a copy of it with me). NOTHING makes me go bat like GA's/RCC witches that make up there own rules )-:

Then why would the airlines even bother having these rules, if only a small fraction of the population is aware of them? UA could just as easily remove its free standby entirely and not have to "misrepresent" anything. Free standby isn't a legal requirement, it's something that United has instituted as a policy. It makes zero sense for them to deliberately implement a policy and then deliberately misrepresent it, when they could just as easily change the policy.

No, I attribute these things to incompetence, pure and simple... whether on the part of the agent in that they failed to learn or choose to ignore the policy, or on the part of management for failing to properly train the agents. Either way, incompetence is a much more plausible explanation than malice, especially since UA could very easily just change their policy.

Well done to the OP and the 1K phone agent, who are, many times, just as grouchy and un-aware of the rules.
The OP bumped into the cardinal rule of agents these days: if it requires more than 3 seconds of thinking or work, said agent will just automatically tell you "no."
"No." It's the axiomatic new thing with airlines.

"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." :p

But I agree with cepheid, this isn't a deliberate top-down misrepresentation. You think a company as severely organizationally-challenged as UA could pull something like that off? No way.

This is people who work at United who don't understand the details of the job and very likely don't care enough to take it upon themselves to learn them.

I can remember working for OO in ROA and when I went through training we were not allowed to do what the OP wanted. It always had to be approved by the particular status level desk. We were also told it was because of the cost as the GA and SD stated. It has been three years since I went through that training though...

JFK agents have lots of training problem.
I had several uncomfortable experiences there.
1. Agents didn't know *Gs and 1Ks allow to check-in 3 pieces of luggage.
2. Agents didn't know 1P=*G and allow to access the RCC when doing the international travel.
3. Agents didn't know 1Ks were allowed to board through red carpet.
4. Agents didn't know what was the oversize luggage which was not allowed.
They measured by eyes and hands but they didn't measured by a
tape-measure.
5. They didn't check UA's rules but made up their own rules.....

.
.
.
.
etc....

We really need some sort of demerit system for agents. Sort of the opposite of the GTEM cards.

I was denied today being added to a VDB list for a downline flight by an agent. She started first by saying it couldn't be done, then later she didn't want to. The SD told her how to do it, and she still refused, saying she didn't want to do it "on her sign-on."

Another agent did it without hesitation. :rolleyes:

Not meaning to defend the GA here but it is likely that an original routing of JFK-IAD-SFO would prohibit standby on the nonstop since it would exclude PS.

In any case PS is no better in Y than any other flight, except for the GM who gets E+ since there is no E-. Otherwise the seat is a bit wider on the non-757 aircraft.

What was the fare basis, when was it ticketed, and for what date of travel? Also, from the linear fare construction, if you have access, please copy everything from the letters "FC' to the word "END". I will look up the rules of your ticket when I am at work to see.

Before jumping to any conclusions, let me just verify what the rules are on your fare. You may be correct, but better to argue with facts than to argue with theories.

.
.
.
.
etc....

You know what, you may be onto something. One of the first things I was thinking when sat in C on the nonstop, still seething that I had to fight for something I was simply entitled to, was how not one but two employees, one a SD could be SO WRONG about UA policy. One explanation is possibly that the SD has informed everyone under his realm what he believes the policy is, explaining why both SD and GA were singing EXACTLY the same tune. It was like listening to a skipping record.

Perhaps the SD was an employee at another airline which had a very different policy and used this "the nonstop costs more" mantra as the reason given for them disallowing nonstop standby. This might have carried over to life with UA so we have a company with one policy and a SD preaching another. As I was boarding the SD did say to me he was only telling me "what I've been told", so in his defense it may not be him, but another higher up @ JFK who is misinformed and handing down non-UA policy instructions to go by.

Either way I have a feeling that UA JFK agents are getting bad information from somewhere. There is absolutely no excuse for what I encountered, and I'd like to try and make sure the message gets to someone at UA who can rectify the situation @ JFK. What is the best route to go about this? Email 1KVoice? Snail mail letter to head of UA Ops? Customer Relations?

fastair, are you talking to me or Ted? I believe my fare basis was LA0WKN ticketed on 2/20. The rules of my ticket are not the issue here though. The reason I know this for a fact is that the GA gave me the line about no nonstop standby before seeing any of my details. I had not even handed over the BPs, the GA or SD did not know my PNR until after this initial contact. Unless the GA was psychic the first words from them about "the nonstop costing more" as a way to deny standby was not made by looking up my fare basis and the corresponding rules.

Off the top of my head, it's a "weekender" fare, but I do not see any "red flags" in the fare basis code that would prevent what you wanted. I will double check specificly though when I have access. (And was talking to you)

And I understand your point. Although, sometimes (most likely not here) a person's assumption can be correct...just because they didn't look at the fare basis, does not always mean they are WRONG about their assumption, but it is 1) bad form to assume, and 2) most likely wrong in this case.

Just this past Friday I was booked MSY-ORD-DEN because it WAS cheaper than MSY-DEN. 5 mins before boarding I got an easy update that my ug of ORD-DEN had cleared, walked up asked the ga if I could get him to do me a favor and print out my new BP since the connection was such that walking from gate to gate was just comfortable. He said, "sure, but why don't you just fly direct?" I told him that would be great, he put me on the direct MSY-DEN and even got my same seat (although exit row seats on MSY-DEN aren't often full, in fact this was a typical to/from MSY flight I tend to rant about where the back half was completely full and the front half was 1/16th full and I had to thank the FA's for stopping, a half dozen self upgraders). Point is, I didn't even have to ask to get the direct routing, it was volunteered.

What I really want to know is did you receive the VDB on your next flight?

Its a sad day when people assume in customer service

Wow. I had almost the exact opposite experience flying out of LHR on 2/21. I was scheduled LHR-ORD-LAX, but upon check-in the agent at the counter asked me right off the bat if I would rather take a non-stop LHR-LAX flight leaving an hour later but getting me to LAX about four hours earlier. She said that I might run in to some bad weather at ORD, but it was of course my choice. And, she told me, absolutely I would retain my upgraded C cabin seat for myself and my traveling companion. She was able to confirm the last pair of open C seats in 9E/F. Even though it was an old config 777 I accepted the offer to skip ORD (and not have to deal with domestic F from ORD-LAX). I remember thinking it was very considerate of her to make the offer since it hadn't even crossed my mind.

The only fares that I can find between SFO and JFK that restrict flight application are those that are -UP fares which book into F, and UA doesn't want people using such fares to get into F on 3-cabin aircraft, including p.s. I have found no coach fares between these points that specifically exclude standby on a nonstop. Hence that is one hell of a bad assumption, if it was one anyways.

I believe you are giving them way too much credit. Whilst the GA was explaining to me the reason I had to pay more to go on the non-stop and giving me the "you booked the connecting flight because it was cheaper, right?" she also mentioned that I could go standby on an earlier JFK-LAX flight, but that I specifically could not change the route to nonstop. Both the GA and the SD, that was their mantra. It was not about me, my PNR or my fare basis. Nothing specific to me was ever mentioned, except when it come to getting the "authorization" written into my reservation. I am of the opinion that these agents honestly believed that ALL standby had to be same routing.

For a GA to get this wrong is bad. For a GA and SD to both be wrong is just unbelievable. For the SD to tell me that I should "check the fine print" when I book tickets in the future is just plain wrong.

LHR have always been good to me too. If I've been connecting back to SFO, they have always tried to see if they could get me back faster, without asking. Very pro-customer attitude IMO. The polar opposite of my experience at JFK. The flights were not even that full. 39 open seats and 2 on the standby list before I was (eventually) added!!

And JFK is the only airport I have flown through where the TSA agents steal brand new clothing from your luggage (so remove all tags!). Avoid JFK whenever possible!

I had exactly the same question & answer at JFK two years ago and I wonder if it is the same agent. :td:

If you can access RCC, try it at there, it should be no problem with another agent.

I'll be flying LHR-ORD-LAX this saturday. do you think I will be able to switch to the nonstop flight? How should I go about it? do I just ask?
My LHR-ORD leaves at 12pm while the nonstop LHR-LAX leaves at 11.15am, what time should I show up at the airport?

Which cabin, and what is your status?

I've had great luck with changing to direct flights out of ORD, but that was as 1P and flying in business. I would show up plenty early - 9:00am? -and politely ask if there's any chance of changing to the non-stop. The staff at LHR seem to be pretty accommodating.

Unfortunately not. It was over originally, but with the weather and misconnects, they were fine.

At least you were able to get an RCC agent to do ticketing. The JFK RCC personnel does not do *any* ticketing, whether it's related to future travel or reroute related to current day's flight.

Not all JFK SDs
 

I had the opposite experience a couple of weeks ago at JFK. I was booked JFK-LAX-SFO (at the time the UG chances looked better on that route). At check-in, I inquired about earlier flights (it was late AM vs my PM flight) and upgrade chances. The SD working the desk was very helpful and mentioned that the non-stop to SFO was delayed due to WX (even though it wasn't posted and no one at the RCC was aware). I said I would still prefer the non-stop if there was a chance to upgrade (Y->C). There were no coach seats available (or maybe it was under gate control) so I got just a DM card. The SD said she'd call the gate and take care of it. Sure enough as I approached the podium, the GA got a call, she said, "Oh, he's standing right here," and out popped a C boarding pass, which I then changed at the EZ chicken for 9A. :p. And we left two hours late, just as the SD predicted. Granted the OP asked at the gate vs. check-in, but do SDs work both areas or only one or the other?

I don't know if it was the WX delay or what, but this SD had no issues with ticket cost or fare rules. Incidentally, SFO-JFK tickets have been insanely low of late, so I'm not even sure a 1-2 stop route would have been cheaper.@:-)

If I change stop flight to non-stop flight, which mileage will I get? Mileage from the original booking flight or actual flying flight?

Actual flown flight. If you get an agent who is rushed or not as skilled, you could be rebooked into Y, which would earn you 1.5x miles though!

I think these days of lean and mean times a lot of the personnel are pulling triple duty at check-in, gates and RCC so the chances of getting the same people might at different locations is increasing.

Two weeks ago at IAD a Check-in counter lady who had refused me a gate pass to go to the RCC for a meeting was "manning the entrance of the RCC two hours later. As I was exiting after my meeting I smiled at her. She had this confused angry look on her face like, how the hell did you get in here when I told you NO...and my supervisor told you NO. They had told me NO, by the way, even though I showed them the section of S*RCC/ADMIT which allows a non traveling RCC member gate access for business meetings.

Sometime a person just has to drive around the road kill to get to where one has to go.

Yesterday I had a no route change, very cheap internet ticket to BWI. I missed my connection (note: I missed the connection at no fault to United) and was put on multiple standby lists to DCA, BWI and IAD. Space was finally found on a flight to Richmond, VA which was diverted in-flight to IAD. Lucky me, I had really preferred to go to IAD in the first place.

I told the GA I would be happy to upgrade if it would help free up a coach seat. The GA put me up front with no deductions from my account and later I received a very nice compensation for the troubles of having been diverted even though it was caused by weather. I was tired from a long day of flying but satisfied with the all the GA's who were just being hammered yesterday.

Also got my money's worth of RCC membership having visited three of the clubs multiple times while standing by in different areas of ORD. Saw one so often that she just handed me a couple of drink chits...just because.

Forgot to add that one of the GA's said to another that she was no headed over to the "Red Rug" and said opps as she saw my grin of recognition knowing what she meant.

So it seems multiple people with multiple levels of training and expertise in multiple areas will equal inconsistency in experiences from FTr to FTr.

Lucky for UA they have an on-site training force by the name of FT. Have knowledge will travel.

I just lost my status, so I'm just a general member...grrrr! I am planning at arriving at the airport at 9am. Even though I just lost status, I still have confirmed E+ seats. But, I dont mind flying on E- if it means getting to LA 5 hours earlier and avoiding ORD.

What are the chances OLCI will offer be the nonstop standby?