bseller

Do be certain to check back in here and let us know how that:
Domestic only, No assigned seating, EconomyMinus works out for you.

Best, Dave

soitgoes

I used "ecological" in a broad sense in the context of human ecology. Fares are an ecological system in that one cannot look at a single fare and make profit/loss determinations, but, rather, one needs to look at a given fare in its environment and with relationship to other fares.

FlyingBear

2 free bags? or is 3 some kind of CP perk?
http://southwest.com/travel_center/baggage.html

soitgoes

Actually, I would think late loading of skis would happen more under this policy due to all the payment/staff needs at the check-in counters.

UnitedSkies

Not anymore. And the trend probably points towards reducing certain tickets to allow only 1.

pinniped

As far as I can tell, UA didn't change their international baggage rules. So the comparison to WN rules is valid - although they too are moving towards a model that allocates different perks to different fare levels, so it wouldn't surprise me if they make some moves too.

soitgoes

They made a move, reducing the free checked baggage allowance from 3 pieces to 2 pieces as of January 29. At the same time, however, they made the 3rd piece fee quite low--$25.

studentff

But there's a nonzero risk that UA permanently loses the deceived customers who get shocked once with the fee, and swear off flying UA forever. And tell the story to their friends/family/coworkers. Gaining $50 on a single r/t and losing a bunch of future fares is pretty penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I saw this sort of reaction when buy-on-board (BoB) food started. Old couple in middle and aisle of my row were shocked that they would have to pay for food. Started taking it out on the FA about how disgusting the policy was and generally saying bad things about UA. But they were hungry and it was a long mid-con, so they bought the food. But because they had to pay for the food, they had higher expectations of the food than if it were free, so then they started complaining to the FA about how it was all unhealthy junk food. I doubt they ever flew UA again.

Among other things, if this fee sticks, customers are going to start (rightly IMO) demanding fee refunds for delayed baggage, misrouted baggage, lost baggage, etc.

kenhawk

So, for anyone with no status, first time UA fliers, vacationers, etc., your United experience will start off with a lovely call to the ICC, where you have a very good chance of being told that a destination in Ohio needs to be handled by an international representative....

Then, you'll try to check in at the curb, and be told to go inside with your second bag, where you will wait in the non-elite line for an hour, and be told to cough up more money for your bag (I feel bad for these TA's who will take the brunt of it.)

Finally, you are crammed in the E- section with people who tried to get around the new bag rule, and you'll find no overhead space.

Gee, what a great way for UA to create customers for life.

forecheck

Think he isn't keeping up with Southwest news, they just lowered their free checked in amount from 3 to 2.

fastair

Except most carriers do BoB. I for one like the convienence...it sure beats airport pricing and doesn't get messy in turbulance. UA also is ranked very higher compared to peers for BoB. I doubt that your theory of BoB loseing many passengers is correct...if it is, then the other airlines wouldn't be doing it, and it wouldn't have "stuck". As for complaining to FA about food...I don't think BoB changed that at all....been going on for decades.

ncorman

One of the issues I see with this is United has made it very complex with their rules.


1. GS, 1K, 1P, 2P, 3P, *G, *S, first class, business class, military fares, government fares and refundable fares are exempt

2. All customers flying on the same reservation (not applicable to group bookings) as a Mileage Plus Premier member or Star Alliance Gold or Silver member regardless of frequent flier status or fare type. What is you are flying together on two PNR's since some are award tickets.

3. Customers who buy a ticket before February 4, 2008, or who fly before May 5, 2008

4. Standard Award Tickets, first and business class award tickets, or first and business class upgrades granted prior to check-in. Status folks will be upgrading so not too much of an issue of a upgrade. Only really applies to op-upgrade.

5. If your itinerary includes a city outside the U.S., Canada or U.S. Territories as any part of either the origin or destination then you will not be assessed a service fee for the second bag.

6. If any part of the trip contains a nonrefundable segment, you will be required to pay the second bag service fee.

7. When traveling with a child, checking car seats and strollers will continue to be free.

8. You can not pay for a second bag at curbside checkin, but must use a kiosk or agent.

9. Customers traveling on Saver Award Tickets for domestic travel in the economy cabin will be charged a service fee to check a second bag. Those customers traveling with Standard Awards and Award Tickets or upgrades into the business or first class cabin will be exempt from the second checked bag service fee.

10. If I am a Premier customer when I purchase my ticket but change to a general member status level before the travel date, does the fee apply (and vice versa)? Is it my status as of when I purchase a ticket or on the day of travel that influences the fee application?
The second bag service fee determination will be made at time of check-in and will be based on your status at that time.

11. Customers traveling on connecting flights where the first flight is not operated by United are exempt.


With all of the rules stated above from their FAQ page, it is more complicated than it needs to be and allows for more confusion by customers and employees alike. Keep in mind the passengers who will be subject to this are the last to board and now will spend extra time getting bags gate-checked. Will the agent then have to verify if they owe $25 or is this a loop hole at this time.

studentff

Good point.

I started flying UA as my primary/exclusive carrier in the days when non-status pax could get E+ (free) by asking at the gate, call agents were helpful native English speakers who were empowered to do things (one even called me back to let me know of another change in an already canceled/rebooked flight), and I could book a saver-award ticket a day before departure with no penalty fee. The idea of paying to check a reasonable number of non-obese bags never would have crossed my mind even if I did check luggage often.

I have no idea now how someone new would manage to get hooked on UA. Are other carriers better? I wonder if the marketing droids at UA/MP who came up with baggage fees, MP "enhancements" that increase award mileage and charge fees for services that used to be free, etc. ever do a study on the year-over-year rates of new status FFs.

jetsetter

First of all Southwest recently announced it would begin charging $25 for 3rd bags checked. I think the way Southwest announced this though was more open, honest, and with integrity. There is a place for you to add comments, and WN management is in a discussion with their pax see below the blog:
http://blogsouthwest.com
Also WN says that about <=2% of their pax check 3 bags.

Blort: I was referring to the policy affecting lower income travelers such as the noted example of a family of 4 having to pay a large amount if they each bring 3 bags. Presumably people with status, all other things being equal, have higher incomes than infrequent travelers with no status that fly evry 5 years. If you make $25,000 a year its a lot harder to pay fees like this $25 fee than if you make $150,000 a year. So thats what I'm getting at, lower income pax may pay this fee more, and may not be aware of it. I think 95% of people won't be aware of it before getting to the airport. I agree with the posts, most people just buy their tickets quickly, and airlines are not their hobbey. Of course exception is the skiiers who probably on average have higher incomes?

Bseller: Why do you suppose people in these focus groups say it is ok to add on fees. I mean, wouldn't it make sense in a focus group, to say you don't like or want additional fees? By accepting fees on surveys and focus groups, I think the consumer is just inviting the company to charge more. This seems dumb, so I'm just wondering why you think people might do it since it'll cost them more in the end?

I guess the real questions are to what extent will the industry match, and how upset will people be that say take 3-5 trips a year but who are not elite say when they go skiing and get hit with $50 roundtrip per person. If NW doesn't match this a lot of skiiers might go ski with NW who also serves a lot of ski markets.

Finally it just seems cheap, nickel and dime, etc. of UA to do this along with their other cost cutting. I wouldn't recommend UA to a nonstatus flyer unless they had a special interest in channel 9. UA is good for 1K's, but not so much for mah and pah kettle, or that 3-5 a year flyer with no status and no access to e+. I'd probably recommend CO, B6, or WN to casual flyers. I have a casual flyer friend who flyes CO because as Larry Kelner says on evry flight we serve meals at meal time even in coach. Maybe would recommend DL too they have some innovative cocktails even in economy like a Mojitto. But I don't see recommending UA's service levels to the average Joe who will never be an elite, and coupled with the fact they don't serve snacks in economy thats another ding against recommending them to the casual flyers.

Loren Pechtel

And what about those of us who won't check them?

My personal item is my laptop. I'm always carrying medicine in my rollaboard--stuff that is rare enough it has to be mail-ordered, pharmacies don't stock it. I'm sure not checking that! It's also bulky enough it doesn't fit my laptop bag.