Suicide on my flight today - IAD to LAX
 

Unbelievably sad. Flight 209 from IAD to LAX....diverted into Denver.

RL

!!!! yikes, was it discovered way after or was there a possibility of resuscitation?

I don't know. The individual was discovered in the rear lavatory. Just awful. The FAs were really shook up but handled it the best they could. We had either a doctor or EMS technician on board, but apparently it was too late.

RL

Do you have details about this?
How could something like this even happen? :(

Hopefully there won't be a rash of copycats on this one. Not to be too morbid, but what was the method?

Sad... :(
Those pax and FAs do not deserve this.

I really don't know the details. They screened off the back of the plane as the doctor/EMS tried to treat in flight. There were probably 8-10 police, including homicide, on board after we landed.

RL

Sorry you had to experience something like this :( It's a shame that sometimes we can't help people before its too late.

Really sad. It is difficult for me to see how someone can get to that place. :( :(

I will say that UAL handled the situation with incredible professionalism...from top to bottom. Some of the passengers, however, once off the plane did not...constantly complaining about missing flights and looking to break in line as the GAs tried to rebook a full plane of passengers.

Anyway, I have a lot of respect for the FAs after today. It was an excellent crew before the emergency and even better during.

RL

So sorry to learn you were on the flight. I feel badly for everyone: the FAs, the pax, and mostly that poor man. What a tragedy.

My mom told me she saw a short bit on the TV news regarding the suicide but I haven't been able to find anything online yet. The report she saw said he hung himself in the lav. What a fright that must have given the FAs. This is just so sad.

I saw a piece on Fox 31 News about this. They said the flight landed because of a "medical emergency" according to United. The reported claimed a pax hanged himself in the lav.

I couldn't find anything online either. But searching for "suicide" and "lavatory" I found this story about a suicide on a flight 43 years ago ...
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...n/13608676.htm

Let's just say, thankfully nobody else was physically injuried or died. Although I'm sure there was a lot of emotional trauma on your flight.

That's a shame. You would think a situation like that would give people pause and a moment to reflect on the people in their lives and maybe treat people with some patience and respect. I just don't get it how people can complain about missing a flight and just act rude after an experience like that.

To those whose tasteless posts I have deleted and those who might be tempted to post in kind: This is a sad story that deserves dignity, civility, and tastefulness in the responses. If you have "humor" [sic] to share, do it via PM/email it with someone who will appreciate your "humor" [sic], not on-thread. Those who cannot post helpfully, tastefully, civilly and with dignity will find their posts deleted and their posting abilities subject to review, per the TOS.

Thank you for your understanding.

cblaisd
Moderator, United

Wow.

Interesting post.

That has to shake somebody up.

one would think, and one would hope. i have found in many facets of life, air travel especially, that most people are only concerned about themselves and their plans. watch Airline for confirmation. the fact that these people had to be diverted and were .....ing about missed flights makes me sick. im pretty sure that a call to your spouse/significant other/boss/business partner/etc and a simple explanation would more than exonerate your absence. show a little tact and courtesy people....

---------
Some people really need to be punched in the face with a fist full of life. Ya know, there were probably a bunch of people who missed connecting flights out of SFO from Boston on 9/11! You think they .....ed-and-moaned to the airline? :mad:

When I had a major delay getting into FRA from MUC to get to SFO b/c weather, did I blame UA? No. I did blame them for not alerting me en-route when they alerted pax to other destinations, but not for the delay itself.

In my opinion, the professional thing to do would have been to continue on to the destination. If someone has a life-threatening medical condition that requires urgent treatment not available onboard, then of course divert. I've missed connections because of medical diversions and was never annoyed for a moment. But a diversion just to offload a corpse? In my opinion, that's nuts. Not only did the diversion cause enormous and unnecessary disruption, but it brings additional attention to the event which might result in copycats.

Thanks, but I don't care to fly with a dead body in the cabin! :eek:

But, seriously, I imagine they had an obligation to let medical examiners investigate the body and the scene as quickly as possible.

This story is sad. I've suffered from depression in the past but luckily I never got close to carrying out something like this. An older friend of mine once told me a story about how he had found someone that had hung himself. He made a point that I've always remembered: why would you do something that would scar other people for the rest of their lives? The FA's who discovered this guy are always going to remember that morbid sight of discovering this guy in the lavatory. I realize that someone who commits suicide like this needed some help and probably didn't mean to make strangers suffer, but I do feel for the strangers who now have to remember something like this.


On a different note, anytime I read about any flight incidents on Flyertalk, I always go to the airline website and check what it lists as the status of said flight. For example, I remember checking the status of the JetBlue flight that had the misaligned landing gear and the WN flight that slid off the runway at MDW. Here's what united.com says about this flight:




United Flight 209
ARRIVED
Details Washington, DC (IAD)
Wed, Feb 8
Scheduled: 2:40 PM
Actual: 2:36 PM
Reason: --
Concourse C
Gate: C23
Denver, CO (DEN)
Wed, Feb 8
Scheduled: 4:23 PM
Actual: 4:18 PM
Reason: --
Gate: --
Baggage claim: --
Flight 209
CANCELLED
Details Denver, CO (DEN)
Wed, Feb 8
Scheduled: 4:43 PM
Actual: Flight cancelled
Reason: --
Gate: --
Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
Wed, Feb 8
Scheduled: 5:17 PM
Estimated: Flight cancelled
Reason: --
Terminal 7
Gate: 76
Baggage claim: 1

Fascinating Article
 

The article that suzy1K references is fascinating reading. Thank you. I was on a flight a couple years ago that was diverted for a medical emergency(heart attack). By the time we reached our destination, most connecting pax had missed their flights. I saw no one moaning or complaining. I had to wait five hours for the next flight, but didn't for one minute think about how *inconvenienced* is was. My only thought was the man who they removed from the plane in St. Louis was ok.

For anyone who was unhappy about what happened on that LA bound flight yesterday, they need to remember that could have been their father, brother, sister or mother.

We are all in this together.

If you have time, read the KC Star article.

This is a very sad story, and I am sorry it is something the OP had to experience.

I too have been diverted for a medical (we actually had 3 medical emergencies onboard that day, but only one diversion). No one was upset about the diversion nor missing their connections. I am just amazed that people would actually be upset over their connections.

I was doing some searching and found a brief news release regarding UA209 today.

I also came across this article about an HP flight with an onboard suicide. Finding both of these made me wonder how often this really happens. It may be more often than many of us suspect.

Someone mentioned continuing on with the body onboard. I believe that many long haul airlines/aircraft have body bags in the emergency equipment for situations when it is impossible (middle of Pacific) or impractical (flying over Siberia or central Africa) to divert right away. It must be an awful thing for the crew to deal with, but it is something that I hope they are trained for.

A dead body won't hurt anyone onboard or cause any threats to other passengers' health, certainly not when caused by trauma or asphyxiation.

When my Mom died at home of Parkinsonism complications at 2:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning last December, my sister waited until mid-day for her body to be taken away.

If there is some FAA regulation requiring prompt disposition of inflight remains, I could understand UA's decision to divert, but that seems highly unlikely to me. There was a thread in Travelbuzz! a while back about a woman whose husband passed away of a heart attack enroute from the U.S. to England.

They diverted to Iceland to off-load the body, stranding her! Everyone commenting thought this was most unfair. [She naturally enough didn't have the presence of mind to refuse to get off the plane herself and make it the carrier's problem.] I would suggest to anyone reading this thread that if a loved one dies inflight, ask the plane not to divert, and do not, under any circumstances, get off the plane yourself!

Discussing this with my pre-teen sons, they agree, "The dead person has a ticket also."

Perhaps the flight crew is too uncomfortable with death to be able to function properly, but it would seem the best response for all concerned would be to simply secure the decedent's location, and carry on.

I wouldn't have thought there were that many attachment points in an airline lavatory. While this might theoretically be a legal liability, it is reminiscent of the Golden Gate Bridge and the proposal to put up a fence (that would ruin the view) along the sidewalks. People who are intent on acting out on their suicidal ideation will use whatever is available, such as the plastic bags holding the blankets, or taking an innocent life with them on a two-lane undivided highway.

As with general health care in the U.S., mental health care is often not available to the middle class. Perhaps if everyone knew the price they were paying at various hospitals, instead of the hidden codes and insurance discounts, etc., the prices would be more rational. Let the free market work through unhindered information flow and informed consumers! Improve all sorts of health care! Maybe with better availability of mental health treatment, this guy could have been helped.

Shouldn't this be a Travelbuzz! or Omni thread?

Americans as a society are in too much denial about death and, yes, the incidence of suicide in modern society. Hence all the jokes, squeamishness, and inability to understand or empathize.

I agree with zvezda that the diversion was unnecessary. Flight crews should be trained and prepared for any eventuality, particularly one as common as death or suicide.

A sad story which reminds us how precious life is, and hopefully treat others with respect, and try to help others in need. Depression can kill, and it does.

An unresolved issue (and taking this away from OMNI, if I can) is.. what is the UA policy for dealing with a PAX who dies in flight? I sure hope that this doesn't happen often but like an earlier post mentioned, this is not the same as a medical emergency, and a diversion to get the PAX to the hospital wouldn't save a life.

I've been with the remains of a family member; where a coroner wasn't called until the morning, and hypothetically, I surely wouldn't complain whether the flight was diverted (or not).

In any case, I hope those who experienced this traumatic event are OK, and I can only imagine the grief of that person's family.

I have been on two flights over the years where a pax died. One was on a transatlantic in the early 80's on Pan Am, where the person was not revived and since we were past PNR the flight continued to LHR. The second was when the pax went from chest pains to a full infarction on descent into DCA. A couple of us performed CPR while the landing was expedited, EMS personnel met the acft and took the pax off, but the pax was pronounced at that point.

What probably happened here is the flight crew reported the situation to ATC and the Company both, my guess is that one or both may have directed them to land at the nearest facility. Since Denver is a UA hub, that would make sense as far as rerouting the pax. Also, it would be a crime scene, and "may" end up being an NTSB scene.

A point that seems to be largely missed here is that some apparent suicides are actually homicides, and it's not the job of the crew to decide whether a death is suicide or homicide. Rather, it's their job to turn the scene over to authorities while minimizing the degradation of any forensic evidence. Diverting puts the potential crime scene into investigators' hands as quickly as possible.

I chatted with a UA FA about onboard deaths once. She explained that the crew is NOT qualified to declare anyone dead. For various reasons, only skilled and licensed profesionals can do that.

This might explain why this case was treated as a "medical emergency" with a diversion.

OTOH, the same FA explained that she had been on a flight were a pax had most certainly expired in his seat during a fairly long flight. The pax was made comfortable while he "slept" through the rest of the flight.

This is all quite sad.

I could be wrong.
But isnt it FAA required that airlines land at the nearest usable airport as soon as the passenger is declared dead?

Very sorry that someone had to burden then rest of the passengers and crew with this. A shame proper help wasnt afforded him before he went too far.

Amazing. Simply Amazing.

it may be unprofessional to divert, but ethically and morally, it's something you would expect. i can't speak for everyone, but if i found out a pax hung himself in the lavatory, i'd be very uncomfortable continuing on to LAX. also, you should show respect to the person that died, and not let him just hang there for an additional 2+ hours. for people that complained they missed their connection, they should be on the no-fly list. i can't even imagine what the pax actually went through when word spread why they were actually landing.

Aside from the moral implications, I don't think this is realistic.

1. Liability. What if the person isn't actually dead?
2. Safety -
a) if it's a homicide;
b) the crew really isn't able to function fully after going through that. So not 100% in case there's another emergency
3. PR nightmare

With all due respect to everyone, after looking at the snippet in the Denver article, we don't really know if it was suicide or an accident. Either way, it's sad and shocking for all involved.

Will

For those that say the flight should not have diverted. How do you know that the person was not still alive or trying to be revived? An earlier poster said that FA's are not able to pronounce someone dead, so I would imagine that they would go on the premise that the person might be able to be revived, thus requiring a diversion to the nearest airport.

"She explained that the crew is NOT qualified to declare anyone dead."

For good reason. Once an FA came to my seat and said that a passenger may be dead because they couldn't feel a pulse. I went with the FA to the passenger in question. He certainly looked like he could be deceased. I too could not feel a pulse. Upon trying to open his eyelids for a peek at his pupils, he said "What are you doing?" It turns out that he was obese (masking the pulse) and a very deep sleeper (all attempts to wake him failed). And there was no noticeable breathing (which would have been my next step after looking at the pupils). It certainly gave me and the FA a surprise.

Right. I worked as an EMT for several years, and we also did not have the authority to declare death, with two exceptions: 1)lividity, or the pooling of blood to the lowest areas of the body after death-- takes several hours so there's no possibility of a false pronouncement, 2) decapitation. For obvious reasons.

What a shame.

I'm just astounded at how it could happen though. I didn't think there was a hook or other "attachment" that would be capable of holding a grown man in a lav. And furthermore, it's not like it could be like a "long drop" hanging that would break the neck. I would think that the person would have been thrashing and making all kinds of noise as he suffocated. I would think that would have been noticed.

Then again, there aren't many details out yet, so it will be interesting to see what comes of this.

I can imagine how traumatic it would be for those who found them. I had a friend whose dad hung himself. He was the one that found him in the garage. It devastated him.

Definitely a bad day for the crew, pax and UA.

A long drop is not needed. Most suicide hanging victims die from suffocation, not a broken neck. Without getting too graphic, a belt and a regular-height doorknob is all that's needed.

Oh, my. I am sure the pax was surprised as well. :eek:

Your point is well made. The flight crew should not be in the business of making death pronouncements (and I am sure they wouldn't want that responsibility).

I have to say that I am astonished that some have suggested that the plane should NOT have been diverted. It simply amazes me that several have stated the plane should have continued onward.

Elliot Hester, in his book "Plane Insanity", tells a story where a pax dies onboard. Hester was the FA who responded to the passenger ringing a call button to report that his seatmate didn't look so good. A doctor was onboard and declared the guy, but the seatmate didn't want to sit next to a corpse, so Hester found a military officer who was willing to sit next to the body until they reached their destination. I'm pretty sure they didn't divert.

(All from memory... some details may be wrong.)