Improving the 1P program
 

In the mega thread on changes, there are some buried messages on "what about 1P program?".

While there is a good rationale from a 1K point of view that the levels are now much more separated, 1P really has remained unchanged except for the bonus status miles and the 10k (redeeemable) miles.

But there is an issue that UA needs to face and that is whether 1P is competitive with AA's PLT.

I believe for people, where routing and hub is not an issue and either UA or AA will do, AA PLT has an edge over UA's 1P. This is primarily because of AA's miles upgrades are available on any fare on international flights. UA has a slight edge if you do a mix of premium and coach fares because of the changes.

The rest of the programs are debateably equivalent with some pluses and minuses on either side.

Primarily domestic flyers will not care much for this major difference, of course. However, for international flyers that live in the 50k-80k/year world, AA's PLT level is a much more useful program as long as the routing or corporate mandates are not an issue.

There is also another reason why making the mid-level enticing will be good in the long run. The same people may get sufficient enough travel in some years to make the top level and they will do it in the program that they have the mid-tier level in even if there is another program out there that is better for just top-tiers.

This has been my personal experience. When AA comped me to PLT based on UA's 1P, I could very easily bootstrap myself into having enough miles to start upgrading nearly half of my transatlantic flights despite having to buy the lowest fare available at the time. With the same travel pattern, I was eligible for upgrades on UA only for a few flights and I could not get upgraded on half of those. So I pretty much decided on sticking to AA and to go for the top tier on AA as well this year.

UA needs to plug this hole somehow. Having to buy H fare or above for miles upgrades is not a justifiable rule in my opinion. The same logic that applied to the failure of H+ SWUs should apply to H+ miles upgrades as well.

My beef is not having to buy up to an H fare.

My beef is most - if not all - of the H fares (and a lot of the M's, as well) require a six day minimum stay.

As a 1P, if I want to "day-trip" to SIN, I can do it for $500 in Economy (on a V fare) or I can do it for $1600 + 60K miles in Business Class on a high-end M fare.

In many cases, I don't want to spend six days in a country. And the extra hotel, food, and other incidental costs can often add four figures to one's bill, which means that an Y/B fare might actually start to "make sense", except that I will probably just forgo the trip rather then spend $2000 on the fare.

So I am going to make 1K lite this year just so I can use the SWUs on V fares and not have to spend a week "in country" to sit in Business Class.

If I did a good deal of international travel, I'd be an AA man. Since almost all of my miles are domestic, I am happy to stay with UA.

I posted earlier about this exact problem. UA needs to let low fare customers upgrade international itineraries with miles (elite members only naturaly). If not, I may take a comp, run over to AA and let them have my business. I cannot fly 100,000 miles a year. I sure as heck can fly around 50,000 and most of the time its international travel. When Y is full, please let me as a 1P upgrade to a half empty C. I think loyal customers deserve that especially since we dont get any upgrade certs.

Also, if miles could be used, you would see a lot less bartering of sweet spot type upgrades. Plus I think most people in MP would save 15K and use it toward a free ticket than use it on an upgrade, therefore there would not be mass amounts of people trying to get the upgraded seats. As we all know most people are not that savvy anyway, including some 1K. You could even revamp the clearing time with miles to that below someone using a SWU.

In addition venk was right. I am a 1P right now, but I am only 20 and in college. Court me right and not only could I be a 1P for a long time, but a potential 1K in the future. If I see little incentive to stay 1P here and can get what I want elsewhere, than it matters not how good 1K is.

[This message has been edited by anc-ord772 (edited Nov 12, 2003).]

Perhaps, as suggested on another thread, UA could pop in a plateau bonus of 2 SWU's for actual miles of 75,000. This would keep those who fly at least 50K but don't have a prayer of reaching 100K on UA. With the new bonus SWU's for actual miles of 100K this would maintain the difference between 1P and 1K as 6 SWU's.

That is exactly the point. I fly mostly transatlantic (4-5 times a year) and pay out of MY pocket. I travel always on W fares as I cannot afford to pay 1500 $ for an upgradable H fare. I will be 1P in a few days but the only advantage I will have is *gold and access to lounges.
Greetz
silver

See ya! Go get what you want. Sounds like AA is calling your name. anc-ord772, I mean no ill will, but your negotiating leverage here is very neglible, and fwiw, loyalty is driven by $$ in the real world.

edited to eliminate undue harshness

[This message has been edited by gregseattle (edited Nov 12, 2003).]

I may have to go to AA in the future. I know its all about cash, if they allowed me to upgrade, they could keep mine for a long time to come. I think retention is important, and UA doesnt think 1P retention is.

Edited to add: But somehow AA thinks plt retention is, and they run in the same cash driven market as UA.

[This message has been edited by anc-ord772 (edited Nov 12, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by anc-ord772 (edited Nov 12, 2003).]

One thing is you can't always please all of the people all of the time. I guess that is the good thing about a "competitive environment" if you don't like what UA has and think AA is better for you then go with AA. If they make the changes to make everyone happy (never going to happen) then I'm sure somebody will come up with more things that they don't like. For myself I've made a choice - mainly because AA doesn't offer segment qualification for the top tier level and I'm a segment flyer. But I'm not going to go complain to AA that they need to change this in order to get my business.

Perhaps not complain. But I think it would be mutually beneficial to all if customers brought any shortcomings of the program to the notice of their respective airlines. Let the airlines then decide whether and how they wish to address it. That is the spirit in which this thread was created. I think it would be counterproductive (especially for 1Ks) to simply say, that is the way it is take it or leave it. After all, if 1ks had gone with just that, we wouldn't have had these welcome changes for 2004 program, would we?

As a 1K, I think I would like to encourage UA to do things that is in the best interests of the airline and the customer and I do think that they have a few gaps in their 1P program that they ought to fix if they wish to retain thir 1P population.

This is actually an interesting one to contemplate. I am going to be down to 1P after enjoying 1K status for several years. In my case, I will hopefully make it back to 1K next year anyway, but if I think about it carefully - what's my incentive to stay?

I get little benefit out of the 1P status - and even when I do try to upgrade (without SWUs or HK49s) out of SFO, I'm going to be behind all the 1Ks in the line.

So what is there to motivate me to fly that little bit extra on UA? 1K status was a nice feedback loop. I got to 1K status because I happened to have to fly a lot for work one year. I maintained it because I made a little bit more effort to maintain it to enjoy the perks - particularly the international upgrades from Y to C and C to F. I enjoyed being treated nicely (and I was), and I influenced around $100K into UA's coffers each year.

Now I'm down to 1P, with just 65K flight miles this year, and all my perks are gone. I don't *expect* any more, because I flew less (although it's annoying in the era of the 1K-lite!) - but doesn't it make sense for UA to be doing something to make sure they retain my business?

I think that's a very fair compromise.

The other major difference is that AA offers E+ (a/k/a MRTC) throughout the entire coach cabin, which is a big plus for those of us who can't upgrade every flight or end up switching flights at the airport. In addition, AA does not require purchase of 500 mile upgrades in 4-packs, nor does it jack the price for non-elites. AA also allows Gold (2P) to reserve exit rows.

In some sense this makes 2P on UA more valuable than AA Gold, since non-elites cannot pre-reserve E+ or buy cheap 500mi stickers.

Well folks count yourselves lucky is all I have to say.

You just need to see the CO/DL/BA forums to see how things could have been.

Now I've not trawled through the main thread to see if Great Offer/Double EQM's count for the 10K bouns, but if I get it great - it's gravy. If not, at least I've got my *G back.

But hey, I'm happy http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Thanks, Venk, for your very valuable and important points, in line with my own thinking. This is a wonderful opportunity for UA to become the provider of the most viable FF program to its customer base in a win-win scenario. I see the current program and 1K program changes as designed to captivate (not capture!) participants by making them feel and think that they are getting the best possible treatment and benefits (and not a desperation measure, as someone on the AA board would have it).

As SF1K brought up, its true that you can't please all of the people all of the time...but in this case UA probably could please a wide cross-section of its 1P constituents by implementing just a few changes to plug the holes mentioned by Venk, particularly with regard to the H+ fares requirements for u/g's. I know at first I thought that H+ for miles u/g was okay, but on reflection, coupled with higher H+ fares as well as the recent increase to 30M miles for transatlantic travel u/g's and minimum 6 day stay requirements--its really is a bit much!!

So perhaps my ideal 1P program plan could include 2 SWU and 2 HK50 at the 1P 50M miles qualifying or requal point; threshold bonus of 2 additional SWU and 2HK50 at 75M miles. I see this because 1P qualification needs something special to make reg 1Ps *want* to stay long-term...the threshold bonus for those who can fly more (but not 1K) and have something to look forward to, and also for those who may have currently attained 1K "lite" status and may not be 1K again because their true BIS level is at or around the 75M threshold point. (presumably, one would prevent BIS 1Ks from 'doubling up' http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif). Perhaps inclusion of Q W V fare classes (or some combination thereof) for miles u/g. Eliminate/waive minimum 6 day stay for intl H+ fares.

The idea again, is to captivate (yes, I will use the word) even titillate, the imaginations of the constituency and make real 1Ps want to be 1Ps; give 2P incentive at the same time! Blow the competition away by making it harder for them to entice away the customer base.

And above all, as Venk so ably stated, encourage the airline to do things in the best interests of its customers and its own future!



[This message has been edited by ShuttleBug (edited Nov 13, 2003).]

There is no "hard rule" that H fares have stay minimums. It's true for many Euro destinations. However, LHR is a key exception.

You can get anything from a $400+ fares to non-Sat night stay $1300+ fares in H class. I suggestlooking into that option and buying a separate ticket or *A airpass.

In fact, I found that you can fly IAD-FRA-LHR-FRA and that's sufficient to get the LHR based fare rules. Thus, you could do a mid-week business trip for $1400 as long as you stopover in LHR on the way back.