complex UA refund question
 

I am getting very conflicting information from both various departments at United and some very savy FTer's.

Hypothetical question:

I purchase a fully refundable ticket C class ticket LAX-AMS. Cost $6000. I charge the ticket to my MP Visa. I decide later to buy a full fare refundable F ticket from LAX-LHR. Cost 10,000. I make a new reservation and apply the cost of the first ticket to the new reservation (exchange it like a voucher) and charge the additional $4000 add collect to my American Express.

Now I decide I want to refund the whole new LAX-LHR ticket. Where will the refund go? All $10,000 back to Amex? Or does the system track the original card depite the new ticket number and all and split it back $6000 to Visa and $4000 to Amex?

I hope that made some sense....

Man that's a good question, auh2o!

I think it should track back, but I don't know that or remember that definitively. I'll be checking back in this thread for the answer. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Just when you think you know the answer to most questions, you (or at least I) get stumped!

In my case (and this was ten years ago), the amount was refunded in it's entirety to the "last card of record". So in your case, it would be the AMEX.

But this was ten years ago...

It will usually refund back to the credit card on the current ticket. Not sure what happens if you use a CC for the first ticket and paid cash for the A/C.

Once, 20 years ago, I bought a ticket on my charge card, and I lost the ticket. They wanted me to buy another one, but would refund the ticket if it wasn't used in some time period (6 months?). I was able to pay for the ticket using a bump-voucher. The credit x months later went back to my credit card.

Wow. I managed to stump the savy folks here. BTW - the folks at CS say that it would get split back to both cards and the folks at the airport ticketing say only the last card. I may have to just try it and see...

The real question is ... do you get to keep the 6,000 miles you got for buying the original tix with the MP Visa? Or do they "take them back" when you refund the tix? Hypothetically, you could rack up some big miles this way http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Nope. Because the card that got the refund would go negative in miles.

Ok then. Has anyone ever gotten a refund to a different card that the one they charged the ticket to?

But what if you charged the ticket to the UA Gold Class Signature Visa that gets double miles on UA purchases?

I haven't refunded anything to this card -- but if I did, would they take away double the miles of the refund?

E.g. I buy a ticket for $500 and get 1000 miles. I refund the ticket. Do I "go negative" $500 and 500 miles, or $500 and 1000 miles?

If the former, presumably one could rack up miles this way...

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View from the Wing: A blog about Free Miles and Free Markets

I guess the point is moot. I was "told" today that it is a Federal regulation that all tickets must be refunded to the original Form of Payment and that only if the original FOP was rejected as out of business or something that you could refund to a different form of payment. Federal Regulation? Or UA policy?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

If so, then Neiman Marcus violates this "Federal regulation." It makes sense as a policy, though, to prevent mileage arbitrage (and to stop mileage arbitrageurs from wasting their time/tying up inventory.) I also suspect that they get part of the merchant fee back when the transaction is undone (via a refund.)

From what i know about this is that there is some obscure federal banking regulation that says refunds must occur in the same form as the item was paid for. i.e. check for check, cash for cash, credit card for credit card. Now there are some variations on this. If you paid by check and the check has cleared then you can get cash back, if you paid by cash they can give you a check back (however, you can demand cash), if you paid by credit card then you can only get a credit back.

The point of this regulation is to prevent a person from charging say $10,000 worth of goods, and returning them later for cash, then stiffing the credit card company by not paying the bill. The credit card company ends up out 10K, but if it credits back then they are not out the 10K. However in the situation you presented, and as far as UA is concerned, FOP is credit card therefore refund should be Credit card. They will credit the last card on the account the full 10K. The other card you will have to pay in full, if you don't then they can take what ever action necessary agianst you. If you tell them that the ticket was refunded, then they can call UA and find out where the money went, and try to collect from the other CC, but in the meantime you are on hook. So the best bet is to keep using the same card for both transactions to avoid any real problems.

So basically the last card in the record gets the full refund. Also I know that you cannot pay for a ticket using two different credit cards. Therfore they should not be able to do a two card refund.

It might just be accounting practices of the company in question. When I worked at a store (a zillion years ago) and someone wanted a refund it had to be to whatever card it was bought with (or cash=cash). Visa refund to Visa; Amex to Amex; couldn't refund a Visa purchase to Amex, etc. Probably helped balance the books.

Or more probably, this policy helps avoid some potential fraud schemes. Say you bought a tix on your company's Visa, then decided not to take the trip ... maybe thought your boss wouldn't notice or whatever ... hypothetically (if UA didn't insist on refunding the exact card) you could "refund" the tix to your personal Visa. UA and the issuing credit cards would not want to be caught up in that quagmire.

Disclaimer: Not that I've ever done this. I took a lot of criminal justice & forensics in college. This close to getting a job at FINCEN (financial crimes enforcement network) ...

How about if I pay the first $6000 by AMEX, refund the ticket and use that credit(or Vocuher) and another normal credit card (like citibank CC)or even cheque to buy another $10000 ticket?
Of course we refund that ticket too, get the cash (or ask for money back from Citibank), and get the 6000 AMEx points......

[This message has been edited by Ray Ray (edited 08-26-2003).]

That is the exact opposite of what they are saying...they are saying that if two credit cards were used as in the example in the very first post that is WOULD refund to both cards with the correct split not the last card....

Aggg....so confused...