UA vs. AA
 

Not yet another thread! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif But since the industry keeps changing...old evaluations never stay valid.

You have to fly both often enough and widely to make such a comparison. This is my evaluation having flown over 100k miles in each in a recent 12 month period on both. This is an aggregate rating over a wide variety of typical flying (short notice, long-planning, short haul, long haul, variety of aircraft, etc.). Also this is a relative coparision between the two not absolute grading compared to all airlines.

Routing:

Europe - UA: A AA: A-
Asia (excluding Japan) - UA: A AA: F
Japan - UA: A AA: A
Australia - UA: A- AA: F
South America - UA: C AA: B
Canada - UA: B AA: C
Domestic - UA: A AA: A
Flight frequency - UA: A AA: A

Overall UA: A AA: B

Booking process
Website - UA: C AA: A-
Elite desk - UA: B AA: A
Booking engine - UA: B AA: A-
Electronic/mobile notification - UA: A AA: B
Overall UA: B AA: B+

Upgrades
International:
Availability - UA: B AA: A-
Fare sensitivity - UA: F AA: A+
Upgrade process - UA: A AA: C
Advance confirmations - UA: C AA: B+
Domestic:
Availability - UA: B- AA: A-
Fare sensitivity - UA: A+ AA: A+
Upgrade process - UA: A AA: A
Advance confirmations - UA: B AA: B
Overall - UA: B- AA: A-

Cabin Comfort
Premier cabin international
Seats - UA: A AA: C
Pitch - UA: A AA: A
IFE - UA: A- AA: A+
Food - UA: B AA: B-
Laptop power: UA: A AA: A
Coach international
Seats - UA: B AA: B
Pitch - UA: A- AA: A
IFE - UA: A AA: B
Food - UA: C AA: C
Laptop power: UA: C AA: A
Overall international UA: B AA: B
Domestic FC:
Seats - UA: B AA: C
Pitch - UA: B AA: B
IFE - UA: C AA: C
Food - UA: B AA: D
Laptop power: UA: B AA: A
Domestic coach:
Seats - UA: B AA: A-
Pitch - UA: A- AA: A
IFE - UA: B AA: D
Food - UA: C AA: F
Laptop power: UA: F AA: A
Overall domestic - UA: B- AA: C

Personnel
Gate/check-in agents: UA: B+ AA: B
FA - UA: B- AA: B
Overall UA: B AA: B

In Travel benefits
Alliances - UA: A AA: C
Lounge avail (own and partner) - UA: A AA: B
Lounge comfort (own and partner) - UA: B AA: B
Arrival facilities - UA: B- AA: A-
Baggage handling - UA: A- AA: A-
Ontime arrivals - UA: A AA: A
Overall UA: A- AA: B

Elite benefits
Miles earning ability - UA: B AA: A
Redeemability - UA: B AA: A-
Upgrade benefits Domestic UA: A AA: B
Upgrade benefits Intnl UA: D AA: A
Priority handling UA: B+ AA: A-
Elite desk: UA: B- AA: A-
Overall UA: B AA: A-

Conclusion: Both are pretty much in the same league overall with significant individual strengths and weaknesses and your travel patterns and priorities may result in significant advantages or disadvantage in one or the other.

[This message has been edited by venk (edited 05-07-2003).]

I have moved most of my business to AA.

In truth, they are very much alike (I am not a 1K so the SWU issue does not affect me) Also some caveats about my travel - all in Econ - company will not pay J/F regardless of duration (which is fine by me because our profit share improves)
Intl is usually discount Econ, domestic is frequently last-minute high fare.

What I do miss about UA is
E+
Star Alliance - beats Oneworld hands-down for route network.
Channel 9 - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

AA got my business because
- MRTC - no guessing whether this 777 or that Shuttle 737 will have it or not.
- Inseat Power in Y - how can UA complain about the loss of biz travellers when their main competitor actually allows people to do some WORK on the plane.
- "Free upgrades" for full-fare Y. Why UA does not do this is puzzling - and yet they complain that not enough full fare pax are flying these days. How about giving them some incentive to fly on UA?
- "Y-UP" fares - same as above.
- For now, more mainline on the routes I fly vs UA. Granted an MD-80 ain't that great, but it sure beats an ACA RJ.

Here's my summary. For more detail, check out my ramblings from a few months ago.

Advantage United:

- Channel 9
- Great Asian route network
- Premium seat comfort (domestic F, int'l C)
- HK-49s
- 747-400s - especially row 15

AAdvantage American: (sorry, couldn't resist http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )

- More domestic F seats mean better upgrade odds
- EXP desk is awesome
- Int'l upgrades on any fare
- 8 VIPOWs instead of 6 SWUs
- Empower always works
- Real First Class pre-boarding on domestic flights
- Great Caribbean and S.America network
- EXPs allowed into OneWorld F-class lounges
- 802.11b in all Admiral's Clubs
- Showers and computers in some AC's
- MRTC, if you get stuck back there

Draw:

- Cabin service (depends on crew)
- Food / wine (both suck)
- Check-in / Ground service
- Int'l F seats (First Suite vs. Flagship Suite)


Notably bad:

AA: MIA hub*, int'l J-class seats
UA: H-fare or higher int'l upgrades

* I am convinced that the stress I have incurred from dealing with the many facets of flying AA out of MIA has reduced my lifespan by at least ten years. I will soon be engaging counsel in a civil suit against, AA, MIA, the city of Miami, the lazy gate agents, the horrendous INS agents, and in particular against the walkway between termial B and terminal E.

I find your ratings dubious in various areas.

Up until a year or so ago, I was also flying UA and AA, about 20%/80% respectively. I traveled enough one year to make 1K; I was a Premier Exec. until last year. Based on that experience, here is where I find your ratings highly favorable to UA.

Booking Process
Elite Desk - There is more than a one grade difference between the EXP desk and the 1K line. The EXP desk may have been the model for UA's UGS line. It has always been that good and probably even better. They do it all, from arranging for transportation on a late connection to award reservations. From my experience, UA's 1K line doesn't even come close.

Cabin Comfort
Premiere cabin international
Seats - Granted the AA business seats have had their list of problems (they are being fixed by the way), but the flagship suite on 777's alone merits a higher grade. The swivel feature was just a stroke of genius and it, unlike the United seat, is finished with some really first-rate textiles and materials, fully integrating it into the pod that surrounds it.

Food - Always a subjective thing, so I won't comment on quality. But, if you just look at things that can be quantified objectively, there is no way AA should get a B-. AA does not cater meals off a cart in business like United now does. AA's new international "Premium" class on 767-300's is a combination of first and business class meal service. AA still has Godiva chocolates in first and recognizable, first-rate wines. This ought to count for something - AA still offers both Coke and Pepsi.

Laptop power - I am assuming all of UA's powerports are now operational. Never had a problem with AA's powerports not working.

Domestic FC
Food - Here again, I think your rating system takes a credibility hit. Putting quality aside for the moment, you do know that AA still offers premium transcon service on more routes than United. Unlike United, that premium transcon service still consists of three courses. Futhermore, you did know that some AA midcons also offer three course meals. What happened to the three-course meal at United?

Domestic Coach
Seats - For whom exactly are the UA seats a "B" grade? Would that be for the people unfortunate enough to fly in E-, or maybe for the people unfortunate enough to find themselves in a former "Shuttle" aircraft? The inconsistency of the United domestic coach seat product is a serious negative.

Food - Again, your ratings are highly subjective, given that they seem based largely on qualitative perceptions, which may or may not be fair and consistent.

Personnel
Gate/check-in agents - This one really made me chuckle. Flying as I do out of LAX, I've had first hand experience with the large number of agents that United hired at below industry average pay during the ESOP era. Blank stares and all, United got what they paid for. Sometimes AA's agent may lack for personality, but by and large they are ultra-efficient and well-trained. No blank stares from this group. Guess that is what you get when you've always paid your agents a competitive wage.

Management - Notice you left out management. Seems like AA's management would get a B to B+ for negotiating labor concessions out of bankruptcy. And, AA's marketing team would get an A for not making any major changes to AAdvantage elite benefits. What grade would UA's management get for filing bankruptcy and then for devaluing your SWU's?

In-Travel benefits
Alliances - Only a "C" for AA? Did you even consider the quality of their respective partners? Except for SQ, there are no Star members that match the oneworld members in quality of service. On that note, did you consider ease of getting awards, premium at that, on Star vs. oneworld? Reports on this board seem to indicate that it is impossible to get a first class award on SQ. Reports on the AA board seem to indicate that it is quite easy to get a first class award on Cathay. I am also wondering what weight you placed on elite bonus earning potential. One gets that from every oneworld member.

As far as alliances go, did you also consider that AA maintains relationships with certain airlines simply for the purpose of award redemption, while United often does not? That's why AA has a relationship with both Air Pacific and Air Tahiti Nui, so that its FF's can get to Tahiti and other points in the South Pacific on awards.

Lounge comfort (own and partner) - When you consider that the oneworld network provides all elites with varying degress of access to one or more of each member's lounges, first, business, or regular, specifically to the BA First and Terrace Clubs and Cathay's Wing and Pier, there is simply no comparison. Add to this the availabity of PC's at the Admirals Clubs and there is no way that UA matches up with AA.

Overall, there is a real difference between the United and AA product. I've tried both. Eventually, I got so frustrated with what the United corporate culture will tolerate that I just started flying AA exclusively. AA's personnel exude a can-do attitude. It is evident in so many ways. At the EXP desk, for example, this has often meant that every request is taken seriously. If the agent doesn't know the answer or has to figure out how to do something, they research the issue and call me back with a solution. Often at UA, some 1K agents would just deny the request because they just didn't want to bother with doing the research.

There are clearly reasons why each of us fly different airlines. And, I don't think any of this is going to change that. You'll notice, however, that over at the AA board we don't spend much time talking about United or comparing AA to United. We know we have a good thing.



[This message has been edited by Scion (edited 05-07-2003).]

Having flown over 100k on both AA and UA last year I have drawn some different conclusions.

UA 10K miles YTD

Better Biz seats and more routes to Asia. (this is what started me flying UA)
Better FC domestic seat.


AA 51K miles YTD and 30K more booked

Better phone desk, EXP is the best
Better fares to Europe and Latin America
Way better upgrade availability and cost.
Better food, IMO
Better award availability and flexibility specially with partners.
More FC to coach seat ratio (better upgrade chances)


I know I have missed something and if anyone wants to trade UA SWUs for VIPs straight up I am in. Was offered 1 VIP for 2 SWU, that will give you an idea of value differences. I want to fly UA, they are just not being competitive for me right now.



------------------
dallasflyer

While I personally value your opinion, I could not help but note the irony in the fact that while you claim to not even waste time TALKING about United, you still find time to post heavily on the UNITED board.

Perhaps UA really isn't all THAT bad then, eh?

I love these comparison threads, but at the end of the day, the only question that REALLY matters is: can you get from A to B in a reasonably timely manner.

For me, UA has always been the best bet out of WAS. Add in USAir for status miles and it becomes a no-brainer.

AA would have to be exponentially better then UA for me to switch. They are not.

Then why do you spend so much time here if you got such good thing over there at AMR?
Is that why AMR's SENIOR VICE PRES of maintenance left and came to United 2 days ago!

I find myself in the (personally) rare position of having enough upcoming leisure flights to qualify for the lowest tier of elite on either UA or AA. Does anyone have comparisons or links to previous postings about UA 2P vs. AA Gold?

Here's my situation in a nutshell:
- fly primarily for leisure on the cheapest flight available that meets time criteria
- most travel is to the Midwest (FWA) and East Coast (BWI/NYC/MIA/FLL etc) for friends and family
- occasional trip up or down the West Coast to SFO or LAX
- very occasional trip to BKK for family, upcoming honeymoon to NAS, so not a whole lot of international travel

I'm really struggling with which carrier to go for lowest tier status on. UA has a redeye to ORD connecting to FWA that we like to use; AA used to have one to ORD as well but it got nixed. UA seems to have better network out of PDX than AA. Having flown both in the past 3 months, I find the AA MRTC to be a bonus, given my lack of status on UA (or reluctance to pay full Y to get E+).

Any help or suggestions would be truly appreciated!

There Scion goes again...

Am I the only one that finds it entertaining to see how hypocritical "that user" is at passing off another opinion as idiocy, while pushing his/her own as unquestionable fact.

That user is almost as bad as avek00.

Now that I am flying actively on both airlines after years of avoiding UA, here are my comments from an AA Plat/UA Prem Ex:

For the travelling that I do up and down the West Coast and occasionally to Europe, SA, and Asia, AA used to be it for me.

Unfortunately, with the aircraft downgrades out of SJC, I am flying more and more out of SFO, necessitating a revamp of my previous thoughts about UA.

That said, I think:

(1) Routes.

AA's routes out of SFO are, as expected, more limited than UA's. AA's aircraft downgrades at SJC to RJs on the LAX, SNA, and PHX flights and no wide-bodies have forced me to look elsewhere. Recent flying to ORD from SFO was a good experience on AA with a pleasant, if small, Admiral's Club in SFO. UA's service to me has been surprisingly good when I fly to DEN or ORD and they even use domestic 777s - my favorite aircraft.

Re: International, I think UA's Asia routes are much more extensive than AA's but having JAL as an AA partner is fantastic. Comparing oneworld and *A, I think, is pretty much useless. UA and AA compete domestically and to a limited extent abroad and I consider BA and LH to be similar. UA/NZ competes with Qantas Down Under. Europe is a mess with a boatload of airlines on both sides. SQ is a real *A jewel but you apparently can't get a flight with UA miles; oneworld's Asian jewel, CX, is downgrading their relationship with AA miles. I think it's a wash.

Edge: Even (depends on where you want to fly)

(2) Clubs.

In general, I think the Admiral's Clubs I have visited (SFO, SJC, SNA, SAN, DFW, CCS, MIA, LAX, ORD, JFK, FRA, NRT) have been very good and I like the computers (and showers) available. I've only sampled the RCC's in FRA, NRT and SFO and they feel very large but without the computer access. My personal bias would be to say that the AA clubs are better but I haven't sampled enough RCC's to give you a firm opinion.

Edge: Toss-up (need to see more RCCs)

(3) Ground services.

Recently, I've met some very surly check-in and gate attendants at DFW which has made me think twice about flying AA more. The AA folks in SFO, SJC, ORD and LAX have been great. The same applies to the SFO, LAX, ORD, and NRT experiences recently with UA, unlike my experiences with them several years ago. At LAX recently, when we arrived early from Maui and the ground crew didn't send up a baby stroller, the UA co-pilot actually ran down and got it for us. Wow.

Edge: UA (if they keep it up)

(4) In-flight services.

In-flight services for both airlines in Y, C, and F are good but nowhere near that of Asian airlines. AVOD systems are important to me on long trips and are nowhere to be found on either airline.

Food is also wanting for both airlines. I like the warmed nuts and ice cream sundaes on AA domestic, but this seems to be a less frequent occurrence; the vaunted Obento on a recent UA flight was only passable to me. Re: AA, I did have a recent flight in which they ran out of plates and served a pizza on the (covered) tray. Yuk.

Edge: Even

(5) Seats.

I like the MRTC and the predictability of it on AA but I have to admit the UA E+ is equally good. The only downside to E+ is that you can't always get it because of aircraft. I also have to admit that I have been used to PowerPorts in all AA flights (except for the hated RJs), whereas the computer power ports on UA are less predictable.

Edge: AA

(6) Hotlines.

The AA Platinum and PremEx hotlines are both very good and I haven't had to wait for more than a few minutes on either line. The services are both efficient and friendly. I'd call this one a toss-up.

Edge: Even

My bottom line is that I am feeling more comfortable flying UA and I can sense an improvement in employee attitudes and service when compared to several years ago. I'm not absolutely certain that my recent experiences with AA at DFW are merely an aberration but I hope they are. Still, choice of airline, to me, is more dependent on nonstop routes and aircraft than the actual services, since they are pretty much equal.

[This message has been edited by cferret (edited 05-07-2003).]

[This message has been edited by cferret (edited 05-07-2003).]

My only comment would be to rate UA a D on South American routing. Heck, they don't even fly to Chile or Peru anymore.

Yikes! This scares me...

Then why have I switched to AA as my primary carrier? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I think you mean I am not bashing UA as much as you would like. I am one of the few people who doesn't bandy about an airline as a religious affliation.

I have not rated this just looking at the best feature or worst feature but what one is likely to encounter over a long period. So a good dinner service on a specific flight when most flights have zip even in FC or a great first suite on a few aircraft while are truly uncomfortable in most other plane or categories doesn't earn high grades unless one travels only in flagship suites and only with flagship dinner service. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
And more important, my ratings come from what I have experienced, not from what I have read.

Of course, your evaluation may vary from mine.

Lets not forget the AA expedite fees.

I haven't flown AA in a while, but my next business trip is on AA since UAs fares were way out of whack. I ticketed last week, then immediately called to use my miles for an upgrade. The upgrade is available one way only, and I had to pay $50 to use my miles to upgrade since I was calling within 21 days of the flight. Now, if the other direction opens up, I will have to pay another $50 or $75 expedite fee depending if it opens up inside or outside of the 7 day window.

-David