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United Airlines buys flight-training academy to speed up hiring of 10,000 pilots
“United Airlines is buying a flight-training academy in an effort to speed up hiring of more than 10,000 pilots by the next decade as about half of its aviators approach the federally mandated retirement age of 65.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/unit...00-pilots.html |
UA press release
United Airlines to Become Only Major U.S. Carrier To Own and Operate a Flight Training Academy Focused on Training and Developing Aspiring Pilots Enables airline to have more visibility and direction over recruitment, development and training of aspiring pilots in the earliest stages of their careers United will disrupt the current pilot career development model and drive enrollment of women and minorities specifically through scholarships and partnerships with other flight training centers, universities and other air carriers CHICAGO, Feb. 5, 2020 United Airlines today further expanded its innovative Aviate pilot program by signing a purchase agreement to become the only major U.S. carrier to own a flight training academy. The United Aviate Academy will give the airline more visibility and direction over the recruitment, development and training of future pilots, enabling United to increase the percentage of women and minorities who become pilots. United expects approximately 300 students to graduate from the United Aviate Academy in its first full year of operation. The flight training academy – currently operating as Westwind School of Aeronautics in Phoenix, Arizona – will be an extension of the airline's Aviate program, a pilot development and recruitment program that offers aspiring aviators the most direct path to achieve their dreams of becoming a United pilot. The airline anticipates hiring more than 10,000 pilots by 2029. "We have developed the Aviate program in collaboration with the Air Line Pilots Association, International to have greater influence on the next generation of aviators at United," said Captain Bebe O'Neil, United's managing director of Aviate. "Launching our own academy provides us with the unique opportunity to not only ensure we maintain the ideal number of quality candidates within our pilot pipeline, but also play a significant role in recruiting, developing and welcoming those with diverse backgrounds to the United family." In addition to launching the flight academy, United plans to reduce financial barriers to joining the program, making the dream of becoming a United pilot even more accessible to more individuals. The carrier is currently engaging with financial institutions with the goal of making attractive financing terms – such as industry-tailored grace periods and competitive interest rates – available to qualified individuals. Additionally, United plans to launch a scholarship program specifically focused on encouraging women and minorities to consider joining the United family. The airline will provide more details regarding these financing options as they become available. Aviate partners currently include: · Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University · Western Michigan University · Lufthansa Aviation Training Academy · University of North Dakota · Hillsboro Aero Academy · US Aviation Academy · Flight Safety International · Ameriflight · Boutique Air · ATP Flight School · ExpressJet · CommutAir · Air Wisconsin · Mesa Airlines · Florida Institute of Technology Aviate: Love to fly, born to lead Last year, United launched Aviate, its innovative pilot recruitment and development program. Those who apply to Aviate and are successful in the selection process will receive a program acceptance job offer with United. Aviate also provides support and coaching for pilots to develop into leaders who exemplify the professionalism, level of excellence and commitment to providing safe, caring, dependable and efficient service that United expects from its pilots. Additionally, Aviate provides those who aspire to a career as a United captain with the most direct route to achieving that goal. United's Aviate career path program offers pilots competitive benefits, including:
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Originally Posted by n198ua
(Post 32036799)
....the federally mandated retirement age of 65.
I always thought it was much younger than that. Not sure why though. |
Originally Posted by narvik
(Post 32036865)
Wow!
I always thought it was much younger than that. Not sure why though. |
I guess this is a lot cheaper than paying regional jet pilots a living wage.
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AA already has a cadet academy, and DL has their own program as well. Plenty of foreign airlines have programs. This isn't really a new concept by any stretch.
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Originally Posted by Sykes
(Post 32037296)
I guess this is a lot cheaper than paying regional jet pilots a living wage.
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
(Post 32037379)
Have you seen what they're paying these days? It's a lot more than just five years ago.
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Originally Posted by Sykes
(Post 32037421)
Yup, my buddy is about to enter IOE at SkyWest now. It's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still not great, especially for the first 2-3 years.
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Originally Posted by gmt4
(Post 32037332)
AA already has a cadet academy, and DL has their own program as well. Plenty of foreign airlines have programs. This isn't really a new concept by any stretch.
It's a somewhat out-of-the-box approach for an airline that's mindlessly, constantly blasted for being an industry follower, rather than innovator, so some praise is due. |
I was looking at this, but it requires either a long stretch of CFI based hours building, or a stint with a very small regional air taxi service, I certainly prefer the latter, but neither of the options operate where I live. I would have preferred the pre-Colgan setup where I pay to fly right seat and build the time, but we know it's not a good idea in many situations, hence the rule change.
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Apparently, UA hasn't realized with new 1K thresholds, crowded clubs, eliminating lifetime benefits for the club without *G boarding pass, dynamic awards, gray salmon, etc, that they won't need 10,000 pilots.
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European Flight Academy (Lufthansa) in Phoenix. |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 32038139)
I was looking at this, but it requires either a long stretch of CFI based hours building, or a stint with a very small regional air taxi service, I certainly prefer the latter, but neither of the options operate where I live. I would have preferred the pre-Colgan setup where I pay to fly right seat and build the time, but we know it's not a good idea in many situations, hence the rule change.
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Originally Posted by returnoftheyeti
(Post 32038206)
Why is Lufthansa’s training academy in Arizona?
They - LH is not the only one - contribute tons of money to the economies of our state and our country. Their student pilots speak English; they are professional, friendly, well aware that they are a guest in our country, and they act accordingly. We wouldn't want to see that industry go away. |
Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 32038370)
The Gulfstream model, in which many pilots in the right seat were *paying* to be there!
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Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 32037764)
This would be the first flight training actually owned by a US carrier, similar to the European Flight Academy (Lufthansa) in Phoenix. The AA Cadet program similarly offers ab initio training, but is just a marketing relationship with several flight schools combined with preferential financing and an AA mentor. Delta has a career-path program with collegiate flight programs but nothing for someone "off the street".
It's a somewhat out-of-the-box approach for an airline that's mindlessly, constantly blasted for being an industry follower, rather than innovator, so some praise is due. |
Originally Posted by gmt4
(Post 32039299)
No, no praise is due. There is no shortage of applicants these days. The main idea behind this initiative is the second sentence in the quote in the first post of this thread. That's not a veiled bigoted suggestion by me. Its their words.
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Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 32039310)
What are you talking about??
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We visited the Lufthansa training facility in Phoenix in 2011 or 2012 as part of Continental Megadoo. Most of us had a chance to try their simulators....and crashed. Lufthansa believed in "growing their own" as opposed to hiring people with prior military or civilian experience. Young people with often zero flying experience enrolled, and paid tuition, and on graduation had a career path open to them as a LH aviator. It was kind of fun seeing those little Cessnas with LH livery.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...f0808eb364.jpg |
Originally Posted by hughw
(Post 32039384)
We visited the Lufthansa training facility in Phoenix in 2011 or 2012 as part of Continental Megadoo. Most of us had a chance to try their simulators....and crashed. Lufthansa believed in "growing their own" as opposed to hiring people with prior military or civilian experience. Young people with often zero flying experience enrolled, and paid tuition, and on graduation had a career path open to them as a LH aviator. It was kind of fun seeing those little Cessnas with LH livery.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...f0808eb364.jpg |
Originally Posted by Raymoland
(Post 32039520)
No wonder you crashed. That's not a Cessna..... :-)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...b0640ceeca.jpg |
Somehow I knew the answer was going to be “good weather”.
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Beech F33 Bonanza. Don’t think Cessna made any low wing single engine aircraft.
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So, I know we are getting way off topic, but... Can I as a tourist visit this place? And, do they just have 3-4 spare LH 747s or 737s in Phoenix for the cadets to try out? You know to kick the tires and take it for a spin? 😁
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Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 32038370)
The Gulfstream model, in which many pilots in the right seat were *paying* to be there!
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Originally Posted by gmt4
(Post 32039333)
Airlines "growing their own" is not a new concept. Its an attempt to generate positive PR.
As for the PR, what’s wrong with it? Part of the goal is to generate visibility to attract quality candidates, too. Your comment re: bigotry was strange, to me. |
Originally Posted by Sykes
(Post 32037421)
Yup, my buddy is about to enter IOE at SkyWest now. It's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still not great, especially for the first 2-3 years.
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Originally Posted by returnoftheyeti
(Post 32038206)
Why is Lufthansa’s training academy in Arizona?
Originally Posted by mctaste
(Post 32039848)
the entry level people dont make top dollar? shocking!
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Originally Posted by returnoftheyeti
(Post 32039737)
Somehow I knew the answer was going to be “good weather”.
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Originally Posted by Sykes
(Post 32040634)
Many non-US airlines have training academies in the US. In addition to the weather, as others have said, a FAA certificate is generally highly regarded worldwide. There are JAL, EVA, Air China, etc. academies in California.
To be fair, many of the people entering Skywest already typically have the equivalent of something like 5 years of experience and a 4-year degree, so it's not like someone fresh out of college in another industry. It's not super compelling when a First Officer domiciled at SFO could make more with minimum wage + tips waiting tables. Airlines are screaming "pilot shortage" left and right, but the truth is that there are plenty of both current and potential pilots to fill the ranks (like myself) who would consider it if life wouldn't be miserable for the first few years. |
Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 32039828)
Of course it is not a “new” concept (what is, these days?) but it’s the first time in this era that a US carrier has actually invested in ab initio, among other things, flight training. More common has been investment in the proximate stage of the pipeline, regional carriers. United does that too, but it also is investing at the earliest stage. That’s not as common.
As for the PR, what’s wrong with it? Part of the goal is to generate visibility to attract quality candidates, too. Your comment re: bigotry was strange, to me. |
Originally Posted by mctaste
(Post 32040752)
supply and demand at work? too many early-career pilots, driving pay down.
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Originally Posted by Sykes
(Post 32040803)
It's working to some degree--starting pay has essentially doubled in the last few years. But, as is truly the American way, instead of paying more airlines are now lobbying the government to reduce the qualifications required for new pilots.
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Originally Posted by returnoftheyeti
(Post 32039737)
Somehow I knew the answer was going to be “good weather”.
Originally Posted by mctaste
(Post 32040752)
supply and demand at work? too many early-career pilots, driving pay down.
I've been in this industry since 1990. I've never seen anything like the current hiring environment. |
Originally Posted by JimInOhio
(Post 32040838)
Did you even read the article you linked? Hint... it doesn't talk about "reduced qualifications" but rather more effective ways of training pilots. Why is that a bad thing?
"The RAA and other stakeholders have called for alternatives to the 1,500-hour rule and have said that targeted training, including more work in flight simulators, can be more effective than merely requiring lots of flight hours." I don't necessarily disagree with the premise of the argument that the airlines are making (especially because the quality of flying that pilots get in those first 1,500 hours is often pretty bad), but it is very clearly an attempt for them to increase the pilot pool without significantly increasing their own costs. |
Originally Posted by Sykes
(Post 32040886)
Yes it does. They want "more effective training" in lieu of the 1500 hour rule:
"The RAA and other stakeholders have called for alternatives to the 1,500-hour rule and have said that targeted training, including more work in flight simulators, can be more effective than merely requiring lots of flight hours." I don't necessarily disagree with the premise of the argument that the airlines are making (especially because the quality of flying that pilots get in those first 1,500 hours is often pretty bad), but it is very clearly an attempt for them to increase the pilot pool without significantly increasing their own costs. |
Originally Posted by Sykes
(Post 32040886)
Yes it does. They want "more effective training" in lieu of the 1500 hour rule:
"The RAA and other stakeholders have called for alternatives to the 1,500-hour rule and have said that targeted training, including more work in flight simulators, can be more effective than merely requiring lots of flight hours." I don't necessarily disagree with the premise of the argument that the airlines are making (especially because the quality of flying that pilots get in those first 1,500 hours is often pretty bad), but it is very clearly an attempt for them to increase the pilot pool without significantly increasing their own costs. |
Originally Posted by JimInOhio
(Post 32040953)
Whose costs? One way or another, the trainee is paying for the training whether directly or indirectly. Making it more cost effective seems like a good thing.
There's room for both, but there's still a serious imbalance in the supply/demand curve and airlines are only increasing pay as a last resort after loudly complaining about a pilot shortage and lobbying for training reform. I'm not saying that any of these steps are really bad ... it's just a bit tiring because the pilot shortage is mostly a manufactured crisis because airlines are slow to adapt to a world where, among other things, they can't rely on taxpayers to subsidize pilot training through a steady stream of military veterans. |
Originally Posted by LarryJ
(Post 32040872)
I've been in this industry since 1990. I've never seen anything like the current hiring environment. |
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