findark

It's hard to quantify, but it's been my impression that Amex is much less interested in loss-leading with unprofitable customers than the other major banks. You can definitely get value out of some of their cards, but IMO it takes a higher level of skill to be at the point where you get more in fungible benefits than you pay in (status, upgrades, points redeemed by transfer partners, etc. are a lot harder to value, which is my point). I trivially turn a cash profit on both my Prestige and CSR, but would find that extremely challenging with the Plat. Sure, if you value the benefits and can maximize them, Amex cards are good too, but it is a very different flavor of program.

I don't buy wifi or change my tickets, and I assume you mean award fees (if taxes are eligible then I've been misinformed). I similarly fly UA almost exclusively in the premium cabin and would not have touched a charge that would be eligible for the fee waiver in the last two years. YMMV of course, but it's rather aggravating to me the way it's marketed ("such as checked bags and in-flight refreshments") alongside being an allegedly premium card.

My bigger point though is they specifically do not intend it as "get $200 of your airfare" the way Citi/Chase do, but "don't be hassled by these fees ever**" -- they think about benefits differently. Amex signups offers are often once in a lifetime. And so on.

aCavalierInCoach

I am sure this thread will be vibrant but I almost feel like there is nothing to say here but "duh"? Mr. Kirby, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

artvandalay

From the article: "JPMorgan, meanwhile, insists the cards aren’t direct competitors and believes the airline should be doing more to earn traveler loyalty..."
Imagine Scott Kirby's reaction to that.

NDtraveler

I probably am a prime example. I am a lowly silver but am lucky enough to mostly buy first class. When I don't AND I need two bags checked I use my United Presidential Plus. So maybe once or twice a year I end up using my card. I do about 15 - 20 flights a year so the United Club access at a discount is the only reason I keep the card. I am spending about 100K annually and almost exclusively on the CSR.

notquiteaff

coolbeans202

Yeah I took that survey yesterday and it definitely explains some of the questions. I made it quite clear in my responses that their recent devaluations made me much less likely to use the Explorer Card or think fondly of Mileage Plus.

krazykanuck

Ok, but a more or less irrelevant distinction if you pay your cards in full every month. And also not really true as Kacee pointed out. By number Amex has more credit card products than charge card products. But yeah using Amex as your sole card would be next to impossible given acceptance, but I'll be honest, it's not something that impacts me in my day to day life unless I'm travelling in various parts of Europe. But this is FT, who is travelling #onecard anyway?

swiftaw

I used the United branded CC mostly for the PQD waiver (I have enough PQM for plat, but never PQD). However, I mostly use the travelbank card rather than one that earns me miles.

halls120

EWR764

I can't speak to the United Club card because I don't carry it (I have the legacy-CO Presidential Plus card for other reasons) but I don't see the value proposition of the UC versus CSR.

The United Club just isn't *that* compelling of a lounge product to make up for its lower net earnings rate versus CSR, and lesser utility of United miles versus Ultimate Rewards. The travel perks on United are good, but you're limiting those perks to United which is the smallest domestic footprint of the carriers with big co-brand deals (UA/AA/DL/WN). Those perks are also essentially negated to the extent the cardholders are Premier members, which I would imagine is a proportionally high share. I'm sure United has great hub share for its co-brand portfolio, but it is also the weakest of the major carriers for outstation (non-hub) cardholders because in most places, United's network/schedule/product is generally not as good as DL/AA/WN.

It makes me wonder if at least part of the equation in Delta's decision to add focus cities elsewhere in the continental United States is to drive co-brand share in growing, affluent markets. If United is attributing more than half of its cash earnings to the co-brand product, Delta has to be in the same ballpark (as Delta's deal with AmEx is widely reported to be more lucrative) and consequently, the credit card deal/wallet share should be a factor in major strategic decisions by the entity.

At the end of the day, the core value proposition of the co-brand cards is points earning in the program, which is also negatively impacted by devaluation of MileagePlus as a currency (no matter how well they try to spin it), but everyone is cutting there. The additional core benefit of the UC card is the United Club product, and it's just not as good as the SkyClub product, and in some ways lags the Admirals Club, too.

When so much of the card's value is tied to deliverables by the airline, it is disingenuous to point the finger at the bank for doing a better job with its own product. United's name is all over the card, so if it's falling short, it stands to reason that United's action is a substantial reason why.

GUWonder

entropy

I wouldn't even think of getting a united CC except for the signon bonus; The sapphire portfolio is much better in general. I'm a lifetime gold so pretty much everything is duplicative.

I just got hit with the annual fee for my (probably 13 year old) United Signature card (the 3x on united purchases), the annual fee used to be worth it for the renewal miles and the 3x, but now I get 3x on the other chase cards. I don't need it so I got rid of it, chase didn't try to save the account. When my club card is up for renewal that's going to get axed too.

And of course, with MP going to massively devalued points, I'd rather have a flexible currency.

BearX220

It is not Chase's fault that UA has put MP value on a downward spiral for nearly a decade. What else does United expect? It was United that shifted from a focus on customer lifetime value to a how-much-is-this-customer-worth-today? strategy. To the extent that I gave up the MP Explorer card years ago and MP no longer influences my ticket-buying decisions, at all.

If Chase has a better value prop that inspires more customer faith and is not destabilized by black-box / opaque redemption pricing, more power to them. Take a look in the mirror, Kirby.

beachmouse

And I'm at three AmEx credit cards- Blue (largely sock--drawered but kept because I've had it for 12 years), Everyday and Delta Platinum,

Like a lot of people willing to accept the opportunity cost from not using other cards, I put a good amount of spending through the Delta Platinum in order to hit the thresholds for the MQM bonuses attached to that card to trigger. (You can actually hit Silver Medallion with zero BIS time with the AmEx Delta Reserve card if you're okay with passing up other point & mile earning opportunities)

If United actually wants people to use their cards significantly, some sort of elite-qualifying mile bonus offer for thresholds does seem to work well for the competition.

karenkay

another lifetime gold (thanking my former self for my many SIN runs back in the day when 1K upgrades would clear even if you bought cheap tickets) who's moved virtually all spending to my sapphire and amex plat card, and will likely cancel the UA card when the annual fee comes due.

the frequent flier program has changed enough that i'm not actively trying to fly UA anymore, unless they offer the best deal...and as entropy so eloquently stated above, when it comes to points, with devaluations past and present i'd rather have a flexible currency.