It is very easy they do it for F upgrades all the time. I only took basic programming in college but it is not too difficult to set up an "if X then Y" or in this case "If 4 people in rez, do not separate" "If 2 in rez, copy aisle+middle or middle+ window". I know UA's IT crew is pretty challenged but the seat assignment and upgrade algorhythms are nothing new.

I'm not envious I'm angry. I pay extra $$ x 4 so my family is guaranteed E+ seats - and I have to pay the higher fare despite my elite status. So yes, I'm damn well mad that some kettle who flies once a year on a cheaper BE fare will snag the same E+ seat. As for the ticket changes and CPUs, don't even go there. I never change my leisure tix because I would be out $200x4 and my (formerly 1K) CPUs almost never cleared except on the rare flight to Mexico. These are not real "benefits" to a non-BE fare. The only real benefit is not being randomly assigned to E- middle seats around the cabin, but apparently BE now gets prime E+ aisle seats (which I can't even get myself if I change my flight T-24).

Would expect to then see FT posts on "UA moved me to E+ and left my companions / family / .... in E-" or moved out of my window / aisle seat to what I did not choose"

I have zero confidence in UA's ability to do that properly. Furthermore, keep in mind that it's impossible to link PNRs in a meaningful way. "UA moved me to E+ and left my six-year-old daughter on a separate reservation in an E- middle."

Are you angry when I use a GPU to get an upgrade when you paid for business class? Are you angry when I SDC'ed to a flight from one that was a lot cheaper originally? Are you angry when there were only S fares when you booked, but I was able to book a K fare because I booked at a different time? Are you angry if you're paying more than me because you're flying nonstop but I'm connecting through your city?

BE may have exacerbated the situation, but this is nothing new.

SDC is free, and disallowed with BE. And my CPU rate is excellent -- markedly better this year than last. So, those are reasons for me, although it seems like they're not reasons for you.

BE gets whatever seats are left over. If you fly a lot of half-empty flights, or flights that are booked solid in E- but have no seats taken in E+, you might end up in E+. You might also end up in the last row of E-. That's the risk you take, and it's one I'm not willing to take.

I'm angry at DL for introducing this concept, and I'm angry at NK, G4, and F9 for providing cover for the majors (who point fingers at them as the cause). I'm angry at UA, and I have definitely refused to take flights because I (a) won't buy BE and (b) didn't like being gouged for an extra $60 on a RT. But I'm not angry at the BE customers. They're just making a decision that fits their situation, the same as I am.

Really, just pop over to the DL forum and see what a mess it was when they started doing CPU-style upgrades to C+ instead of allowed-selection like UA elites for E+. "They moved me into a middle seat!" "I wanted my window, not this dumb aisle!", etc etc. I think they had to add a checkbox which was "don't upgrade me to a middle seat" but I'm not even sure they got that far.

Did I ever say I was angry with the passenger? OF course not I would never blame a customer who lucks out without gaming the system. Rather I am angry with UA, and it sounds like we are on the same page.

As should be obvious from my posts, that's not a risk I can take when traveling with young children. So we agree on that too. But there are plenty of cheapo passengers who are willing to take that risk, and the system should be designed to penalize them by assigning only E- middle seats, not prime E+ seats.

So, you want to penalize people -- and insult them, to boot -- even though you're not angry?

I feel like part of this boils down to "you're supposed to lose the lottery; how dare someone win it!". Especially when any of us is free to make the same wager, and yet we're choosing not to.

I'm upset with pax for purchasing BE insofar as they are continuing the business model driven by low cost at any sacrifice, but I don't really care where they get seated.

How am I insulting them?? by suggesting that they should receive what they bought?

It is not me penalizing them it is the airline that should be doing because that is how the system is designed (or so we are told when we are deciding which fare bucket to purchase). The BE passengers should get what they purchased which is the worst travel experience available on UA.. The other passengers I don't care what they get so long as UA follows its rules on allocating upgrades, meal preference, etc.

Every passenger who pays a higher fare and loses an E+ seat to a BE customer should have preference for the seat over a BE customer. It's just that simple. It is not a matter of winning the lottery it is a matter of processes to ensure that higher rev customers are treated better. This is how GS works and it filters all the way down the line.

Winning the lottery is more like a Silver clearing a CPU on SFO-IAD. And that only happens because all the customers with higher status have already cleared.

If I had unlimited time I would definitely write UA executive offices to share these thoughts but I have more important things to do like FT commenting LOL

BE is the least expensive fare, and disallows changes, upgrades, etc. It doesn't require that the passenger prostrate himself before others, travel in the cargo hold, or serve drinks to the passengers in F. And it doesn't merit "punishment," or relegation to middle seats in the back, making everybody else uncomfortable, when there are other seats available.

Scott Kirby must love this thread. I can't fathom how anybody else could believe that a business should be trying to punish its customers. It's borderline insanity.

I almost always pick an exit row window seat, and the middle seat in the exit row is frequently filled by a group 5 passenger. The routine is like this - I take the first seat in the row, the aisle seat is filled shortly after or occasionally before me by another GS/1K/Group 1, and finally toward the end of boarding the middle seat gets filled by someone holding a group 5 boarding pass. This is how it goes a high percentage of the time.

So in the pre-BE days, by your logic, should I when seated in 21 C/D have been bummed out when 21 B/E was filled at the last minute by a mere standby? Maybe I should have enlisted 21 A/F if they had paid for their exit-row premium seat to lodge a protest? Maybe I should have shown UA who was boss and refused to fly because of the way I was treated.
:rolleyes:

Experience on UA in Economy was cheapened (or any other of our sterling US carriers for that matter)? How do you feel if you find out that 21 C/D is occupied by someone who has paid only $5.60 for an award ticket purchased with miles from credit card spend?

I have kept telling my wife that I do not own the airlines. United can treat the passengers anyway that it likes. I would like to have either 21B or 21E open when I seleted an exit row seat. But it is an unrealistic thought because planes are so full (at least, for domestic flights). Some of the argument on this thread are just silly because none of us owns the airlines.

They had a checkbox to exclude middle seats if you requested the upgrade at check in. I believe they've also expanded it to anytime you're managing your upgrade requests now.

I think we underestimate how much the airlines make in seat purchases within T-24. If they start automatically upgrading all their paid Y in addition to Silvers at T-24 they lose the chance at the DoD incremental revenue from passengers purchasing those seats when they are in a middle at the back of the plane. They'd have to manage it similar to DL which creates a separate inventory bucket for those seats, and hold back some of those upgrades for potential purchase until the flight is at gate control. At which point you now add to the work the GA needs to do figuring out which paid Y passengers don't want to be separated while also managing all the other departure activites. I don't think giving them more work helps with getting on-time departures. Not to mention, at least as of a few years ago UA was trying to quantify the standard work their GAs do and reduce staffing to 1.33-1.5 agents per flight instead of 2.

That is a test that seems to be very random (and sparse); I am a DL Diamond and have never received such check box. The "upgrade" system to C+ is a NIGHTMARE. I have been "upgraded" from exit row aisle seats to middle seats in C+ MULTIPLE times. It is one of the PRIMARY reasons I have shifted part of my paid travel to UA from DL.