SFO-SIN Route Performance
Oct 4, 2018, 11:25 am
#16
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: Marriott Platinum Elite, National Executive, United Gold
Posts: 1,181
If I had to guess the likelihood of this happening is low due to the ANA JV. Off the top of my head, I can only think of DPS as a notable hole in the ANA SE Asia network. Where UA and SQ should partner up is secondary Indian cities - apologies if we are saying the same thing but I think of India as a separate region from SE Asia.
Oct 4, 2018, 11:58 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
but in general, SIN has historically been hard to get to due to how darn far away it is, the longer range (and more efficient) aircraft help that. Given there is a strong financial sector as well as high tech and research there, its not too surprising, but nice to see of course!
Oct 4, 2018, 12:26 pm
#18
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
As a practical matter, UA not codesharing with SQ can be the difference between flying UA or choosing another carrier (e.g., SQ, CX, or BR) that offers more attractive options to SE Asia. That's been my story this year.
Last edited by Kacee; Oct 4, 2018 at 12:40 pm
Oct 4, 2018, 12:41 pm
#19
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CLE
Programs: UA 1K MM, DL Plat
Posts: 982
I don't disagree from UA's perspective, but from the passenger's perspective, SIN is an attractive connection point for most of SE Asia. And NH's use of regional aircraft on many routes is a big negative. The timing of the TYO flights is also an issue - if you're going to SE Asia, you get a late night arrival (from the US), and an early morning departure (back to US). While that works for some, others (including me) prefer the opposite.
I've started taking a lot more risky UA + BR connections in TPE for this very reason. Even though it's a separate ticket, and I run the connection risk, it's USUALLY ok, and I can get to many SEAsia destinations a few hours earlier than via TYO. When that's the difference between getting to my hotel at 11pm or midnight, versus 1 or 2am, it's a fairly significant difference indeed!
Oct 4, 2018, 1:26 pm
#20
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now
Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,429
There's a reason why SQ's codeshares in US are on AS and not UA
Oct 4, 2018, 1:48 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,412
Still, between UA preferring to put people on NH and SQ preferring to have people fly SQ metal TPAC, it's hard for me to see there being a huge market for UA codeshares on short-haul SQ flights (or for UA fares that allow the use of those same SQ flights; the codeshare isn't really necessary).
Oct 4, 2018, 2:18 pm
#22
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: SAN
Programs: AS MVPG100K, UA Gold, IHG Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec
Posts: 320
I don't disagree from UA's perspective, but from the passenger's perspective, SIN is an attractive connection point for most of SE Asia. And NH's use of regional aircraft on many routes longer than 5 hours is a big negative. The timing of the TYO flights is also an issue - if you're going to SE Asia, you get a late night arrival (from the US), and an early morning departure (back to US). While that works for some, others (including me) prefer the opposite.
As a practical matter, UA not codesharing with SQ can be the difference between flying UA or choosing another carrier (e.g., SQ, CX, or BR) that offers more attractive options to SE Asia. That's been my story this year.
As a practical matter, UA not codesharing with SQ can be the difference between flying UA or choosing another carrier (e.g., SQ, CX, or BR) that offers more attractive options to SE Asia. That's been my story this year.
Oct 4, 2018, 3:05 pm
#23
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,956
There is a hell of a lot of high tech/bio-tech traffic between the bay area and SIN, and I don't doubt that UA can run a very profitable flight on this route. However, as SQ continues to fly more comfortable aircraft (A350 with PE and better Y and J seats) and as it adds this very month (October) flights to LAX and EWR, and ups its flights ex-SFO to 10x week (27 total from the three airports) it will clearly impact UA's bottom line.
UA is able to pull traffic via SFO because their is no other good one stop service to SIN from most other cities, but SQ will provide direct competition via two gate ways on the west coast, and will provide a vastly superior experience ex-NYC area. Some if not most of the high value traffic from the East (BOS/NYC, etc) that UA is currently getting for the SFO-SIN flight will go away.
It will be interesting to see if UA cuts back to a daily flight (from two) as SQ ramps up its expanded service with better soft and hard product.
UA is able to pull traffic via SFO because their is no other good one stop service to SIN from most other cities, but SQ will provide direct competition via two gate ways on the west coast, and will provide a vastly superior experience ex-NYC area. Some if not most of the high value traffic from the East (BOS/NYC, etc) that UA is currently getting for the SFO-SIN flight will go away.
It will be interesting to see if UA cuts back to a daily flight (from two) as SQ ramps up its expanded service with better soft and hard product.
Oct 4, 2018, 3:08 pm
#24
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
Still, between UA preferring to put people on NH and SQ preferring to have people fly SQ metal TPAC, it's hard for me to see there being a huge market for UA codeshares on short-haul SQ flights (or for UA fares that allow the use of those same SQ flights; the codeshare isn't really necessary).
Not saying it will happen. The comment which sparked this discussion was aspirational, not predictive.
Oct 4, 2018, 3:15 pm
#25
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: Marriott Platinum Elite, National Executive, United Gold
Posts: 1,181
Oct 4, 2018, 5:56 pm
#26
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
Kind of curious to see how these get deployed - it doesn't seem like it will be quite in the window for the older 772 retirements, but 789 is too much plane for the routes plied by 763/764. I hope there are some new routes ^, although I'm sure part of it depends on the price of oil / distillates when they get delivered.
Oct 4, 2018, 6:11 pm
#27
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
I'm not sure what that means. They are very close (esp 764) in seating capacity. While 789 has greater range, it's also an efficient aircraft and need not be used on ultra-long haul to be profitable. Other airlines (e.g., NH) are using it for medium range flights. (And UA already uses it on some of the 5-6k mile routes that can also be flown by 763/4).
Oct 4, 2018, 7:42 pm
#29
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
I think there's a business case on both sides - UA would pick up business that would otherwise fly other carriers TPAC, while SQ would pick up connecting traffic that would otherwise route through TYO on NH.
Not saying it will happen. The comment which sparked this discussion was aspirational, not predictive.
Not saying it will happen. The comment which sparked this discussion was aspirational, not predictive.
And on the other end, SQ has no shortage of options (except at IAH, where they do code share) which is happy to take the feed and evidently offer a better deal than UA is.
If SQ were to fly into DEN or into ORD, Then i would expect them to code share, but not ex-SFO.
Oct 4, 2018, 8:40 pm
#30
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Portland OR
Programs: United 1K 1MM, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton HHonors Gold
Posts: 560