What are my rights? United is saying everything is an ATC delay
Aug 3, 2018, 9:20 am
#1
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What are my rights? United is saying everything is an ATC delay
What are my rights here? United is using every flight and saying it was canceled due to ATC delays. United is the cause of EWRs delays since they book way too much then the airport can handle.
My flight this evening was cancelled. United has nothing left today, and wants to fly me tomorrow, refusing to book on another carrier. I don't see bad weather in Newark or where my flight is, the plane is just super delayed and this is an excuse. They blame everything on the weather and ATC all the time. They are the problem, do i have any rights here to get rebooked on another airline, or hotel voucher or anything? I dont see bad weather in Newark to justify a CANCEL. The flight was 3 hours late, the cancel is just to save money as now it wouldn't be full.
There are always ATC delays in Newark, how does that justify an outright cancel. they are acting like a hurricane or blizzard is bearing down on EWR, so they have no responsibility because of ATC delays. My flight is like 10.5 hours from now how could they even know that now
My flight this evening was cancelled. United has nothing left today, and wants to fly me tomorrow, refusing to book on another carrier. I don't see bad weather in Newark or where my flight is, the plane is just super delayed and this is an excuse. They blame everything on the weather and ATC all the time. They are the problem, do i have any rights here to get rebooked on another airline, or hotel voucher or anything? I dont see bad weather in Newark to justify a CANCEL. The flight was 3 hours late, the cancel is just to save money as now it wouldn't be full.
There are always ATC delays in Newark, how does that justify an outright cancel. they are acting like a hurricane or blizzard is bearing down on EWR, so they have no responsibility because of ATC delays. My flight is like 10.5 hours from now how could they even know that now
Aug 3, 2018, 9:26 am
#3
Join Date: Jan 2016
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United doesn't control the FAA unfortunately. ATC delays are put in place by the FAA.
Let's take a look at current FAA status as of 11:28AM Eastern time:
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS and WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving Newark International Airport, Newark, NJ (EWR). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 2 hours and 57 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".
Um. Really? You don't see anything?
Let's take a look at current FAA status as of 11:28AM Eastern time:
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS and WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving Newark International Airport, Newark, NJ (EWR). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 2 hours and 57 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".
Um. Really? You don't see anything?
Last edited by laxmillenial; Aug 3, 2018 at 9:29 am Reason: Adding info
Aug 3, 2018, 9:28 am
#4
Join Date: Jul 2007
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It seems that your rights in the US with delays are very limited. So far as I know the only issue that is really enforced is having paxs sit on the tarmac for over 3 hours. The airlines seem to get quite nervous about that.
Aug 3, 2018, 9:42 am
#5
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As far as whether a delay is ATC-related, check here:
https://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/
The FAA implements traffic management programs at various airports whenever conditions will reduce the capacity of a given airport. It actually strongly inures to the benefit of the flying public because delays can be anticipated long in advance, and reduces the incident of, among other things, fuel emergencies when airplanes hold for extended periods waiting to land.
Moral of the story: If you don't want to be delayed or cancelled, avoid domestic flights after 3pm in the summer at all costs.
Aug 3, 2018, 9:46 am
#7
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United's Schedule Change policy will allow OP to get a refund if the flight is delayed more than three hours. If this is at a connecting city, OP can ask to be sent back to the origin and get a full refund (trip in vain). And if the OP asks nicely, lots of other possibilities might be available. UA will rarely put passengers on another airline due to ATC delays, but an alternate route or airport might be an option.
However, if the OP uses the same attitude with the UA CS team as evidenced in the post, I'd expect zero sympathy.
Aug 3, 2018, 9:50 am
#8
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There are always ATC delays in Newark, how does that justify an outright cancel. they are acting like a hurricane or blizzard is bearing down on EWR, so they have no responsibility because of ATC delays. My flight is like 10.5 hours from now how could they even know that now
TAF (Terminal Area Forecast) for EWR shows thunderstorms between 4pm and 7pm today... smack in the middle of the afternoon rush. At some point, the airport will likely go on a ground stop, which will throw a gigantic wrench in the operation. The knock-on effects of the storm will cause significant operational disruption. It's totally logical.
TEMPO 0319/0322 VRB15G25KT 2SM TSRA BKN025CB
In order to recover, UA is preemptively canceling flights to reduce the operation to better match the airfield's capacity for a given time period, and give passengers more time to make alternate plans. Would you prefer showing up to the airport and waiting until departure time to only hear the flight was canceled due to long-forecast adverse weather?
There is so much more that goes into the safe operation of an airline, especially during adverse weather, than meets the eye of the average traveler.
If you think this is just an excuse to cancel a flight, let me ask you this... what advantage, exactly, does cancelling a flight confer to United? It puts crews and airplanes out of position, upsets customers, generally requires airport staff overtime, and always leads to additional cost. They aren't just making this decision arbitrarily.
Aug 3, 2018, 11:06 am
#9
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If you think this is just an excuse to cancel a flight, let me ask you this... what advantage, exactly, does cancelling a flight confer to United? It puts crews and airplanes out of position, upsets customers, generally requires airport staff overtime, and always leads to additional cost. They aren't just making this decision arbitrarily.
I would even argue that UA happily stresses the system at some hubs in order to cause such weather/ATC delays to pile on as they do... though of course they’ll never admit it.
Aug 3, 2018, 11:13 am
#10
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Cost savings of not operating the flight would be a good reason, especially if it isn’t full. They have your revenue, they can happily rebook you on another flight tomorrow and fill the plane, and not owe you a cent of compensation or hotel for it.
I would even argue that UA happily stresses the system at some hubs in order to cause such weather/ATC delays to pile on as they do... though of course they’ll never admit it.
Air travel is at record high levels...and continuing to rise.
Aug 3, 2018, 11:16 am
#11
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This shows a complete unawareness of how airline operations work. Airlines don't cancel flights just because it isn't full. It's hardly that simple.
1) The plane is probably required to operate a flight out of the destination airport one hour later.
2) The crew might have been expected to work another flight out of the destination airport.
Example: United decides to cancel LAX-OGG because it's only got 100 passengers booked for the 200 seats. Meanwhile - a fully-booked flight of 200 passengers are expecting to fly OGG-LAX on the same plane. What are they supposed to do - swim?
Aug 3, 2018, 11:34 am
#13
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 158
While I agree that cancelling flights on account of load only really is rare and almost never is the only reason, I do think there's something to the idea that UA overloads the EWR hub with dummy flights to squeeze all the available capacity "juice" out of the airport, probably magnified during irrops conditions. On good days, you "fly to 1,000,000 destinations out of EWR" and when irrops occur, the GDPs/ground stops happen and those flights are the first to cancel. Then UA still runs their core flights while the competition has a much harder time with much fewer flights, as EWR effectively is an outstation for them. Not much to shuffle for the other carriers.
Aug 3, 2018, 11:43 am
#14
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Cost savings of not operating the flight would be a good reason, especially if it isn’t full. They have your revenue, they can happily rebook you on another flight tomorrow and fill the plane, and not owe you a cent of compensation or hotel for it.
I would even argue that UA happily stresses the system at some hubs in order to cause such weather/ATC delays to pile on as they do... though of course they’ll never admit it.
However, I can assure you every airline will happily give up this small windfall in exchange for 100% Hawaiian weather.
Aug 3, 2018, 11:55 am
#15
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United doesn't control the FAA unfortunately. ATC delays are put in place by the FAA.
Let's take a look at current FAA status as of 11:28AM Eastern time:
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS and WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving Newark International Airport, Newark, NJ (EWR). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 2 hours and 57 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".
Let's take a look at current FAA status as of 11:28AM Eastern time:
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS and WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving Newark International Airport, Newark, NJ (EWR). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 2 hours and 57 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving Newark International Airport, Newark, NJ (EWR). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 4 hours and 11 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".
Delays by Destination:
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport, Boston, MA (BOS) is currently experiencing delays averaging 52 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to Baltimore-Washington International Airport, Baltimore, MD (BWI) is currently experiencing delays averaging 1 hour and 33 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Washington, DC (DCA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 39 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to John F Kennedy International Airport, New York, NY (JFK) is currently experiencing delays averaging 5 hours and 7 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to La Guardia Airport, New York, NY (LGA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 2 hours and 53 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to Philadelphia International Airport, Philadelphia, PA (PHL) is currently experiencing delays averaging 2 hours and 6 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / LOW CEILINGS, departure traffic destined to Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, Seattle, WA (SEA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 48 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / LOW VISIBILITY, departure traffic destined to San Francisco International Airport, San Francisco, CA (SFO) is currently experiencing delays averaging 33 minutes.
General Departure Delays: Due to TM Initiatives:SWAP:WX, traffic is experiencing Gate Hold and Taxi delays between 1 hour and 1 minute and 1 hour and 15 minutes in length and increasing.
Delays by Destination:
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport, Boston, MA (BOS) is currently experiencing delays averaging 52 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to Baltimore-Washington International Airport, Baltimore, MD (BWI) is currently experiencing delays averaging 1 hour and 33 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Washington, DC (DCA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 39 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to John F Kennedy International Airport, New York, NY (JFK) is currently experiencing delays averaging 5 hours and 7 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to La Guardia Airport, New York, NY (LGA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 2 hours and 53 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS, departure traffic destined to Philadelphia International Airport, Philadelphia, PA (PHL) is currently experiencing delays averaging 2 hours and 6 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / LOW CEILINGS, departure traffic destined to Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, Seattle, WA (SEA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 48 minutes.
Due to WEATHER / LOW VISIBILITY, departure traffic destined to San Francisco International Airport, San Francisco, CA (SFO) is currently experiencing delays averaging 33 minutes.
General Departure Delays: Due to TM Initiatives:SWAP:WX, traffic is experiencing Gate Hold and Taxi delays between 1 hour and 1 minute and 1 hour and 15 minutes in length and increasing.
Been a ugly summer for the NorthEast
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Aug 3, 2018 at 12:01 pm Reason: FAA delay map