Aussienarelle

My views on international economy seating on UA depend upon the length of the flight and the timing of the flight. I fly to LHR on a fairly frequent basis from the west coast. The red eye going is jolly uncomfortable in E+ and I have done it too many times where the UG did not come through that I will jump on a P fare for the red eye to LHR. Coming home, as long as it is a morning flight then I am fine in E+ for the flights from LHR. I dislike the afternoon flights as I want to nod off and it is just an uncomfortable experience. I will usually buy W and apply a GPU and if it some through great and if not, I am okay with that too. So for most TATL flights (from the west coast) E+ is fine for day flights.

However, anything TPAC I will no longer fly E+. Flights are way too long to be in E+ and most are red eyes. I will fly in PE OAL. I travel on my own dime (or for clients) but have flexibility for my airline choice.

I am not concerned about the food (i do not catch the plane for the food) although non-salty, healthy options are a great find. It is not about the FAs but a great one can make the flight so much better and the bad ones are hard to avoid in Polaris and the FAs in Y are generally friendly and efficient. For me it is all about the seat comfort for sitting and sleeping during the flight.

Artpen100

Most of my flying is for work. When I flew International economy, I came to dread the flight. I knew how uncomfortable it would be. I knew what I would feel like when I landed. Once I started learning how to find cheap business class and to find upgrades (and to get lounge access) I find that I don’t dread long haul travel. It can even be pleasant. Why not do that if it can be done with a little advance knowledge and planning?

spin88

Look there is a market for ultra-tight seats, the French & French Canadian Discount Carriers pioneered them to beach/leisure/french overseas destinations (see .e.g. TS and XL 332/333 in 3-3-3). I would just point out that french people are not exactly the same size as Americans, who are on average about 45 pounds heavier than the French. Ditto some of the asian carrier with ultra tight seating (see e.g. D7). I've flown shorter budget flights in Asia, and I can testfiy from personal experience that people are just smaller, but I have repeatedly passed up the D7, et al 3-3-3 experience on the 332/333 with its 16.5" wide seats.

My issue, and what is directly relevant to the OP's post, is how bad UA chose to make its Y+ (E+ on UA) experience. The seats are horribly narrow, and I'm sorry, but at 6'2" and 210 lbs there is no way that I am going to be flying on UA's 77W where the E+ seats are .6" narrower than on a 737 (effectively the same size as the 16.5" seats on D& or TS or XL). I've flown 3-4-3 in Y on the 777, and I will not do it again,its litterally painful. Here are recent comments taken from SeatGuru:

"Any economy seat on this aircraft is exceedingly uncomfortable (17" width!), and I would suggest to any traveler to AVOID the new 10 across seating! Choose another airline who hasn't stooped this low. If you are in the new Polaris business seat, great for you, but only a midget would be comfortable in any economy or premium economy seat."

" Wow, this was such a painful trip. The addition of an extra seat in each row means that two normal sized people can not sit next to each other without one either leaning forward against the tray table or twisting so that their shoulders are not parallel to the seat. The window seat is now so close to the walls of the aircraft that they literally impede on your shoulder and headspace. It was beyond agonizing, and seriously unacceptable. I'm a million miler on UA, but I'll never fly this 3-4-3 setup on a 777 again. My onward journey on a regional jet was actually significantly more comfortable. " https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Un..._777-300ER.php

United (unlike say the ME3) gets a lot of its business (1/2 per Kirby) from its elite traffic. These are the people who are being - by United - offered a horrible set of options if they are not on corporate accounts. Where the UA option is a 77W (or soon a retrofited 772) or slightly less worse a 787, they can (a) pay a huge amount for J, impossible for most people, or (b) suffer a flight in a very cramped and uncomfortable E+ seat, with sucky soft product. The other option, which frankly a lot of people posting on this thread would prefer to avoid as they would LIKE to fly UA (if it is a workable option) is fly another airline.

I just fear for the employees as management chases away more and more of the 1/2 of revenue that is repeat business. United is badly underperforming financially, and continuing to cut product and service quality will not put UA in a very good position when the next downturn comes.

And P.s. not all airlines are doing what United is doing, what UA is offering is clearly the worst of the worst. Delta has kept 3-3-3 on its 777s and is not installing ultra tight Y seating on any A/C, while it starts to roll-out PE. AA initially kept Y+ at 3-3-3 on its 77Ws, and while it has backed off that some, is rolling out PE aggressively, which gives AA elites an option other than ultra tight Y seating.

764toHI

Unfortunately it sounds like the OP has a last minute business meeting overseas and all of the UA-operated flights on the day of travel are sold out in J.

dilanesp

I don't want this to be construed as a personal attack (it isn't), but it seems to me that whether someone will be comfortable in a 10 across seat probably has a lot to do with whether they are thin or overweight. If someone has a few extra pounds, yeah, that seat is going to be uncomfortable.

codex57

Slimlines just suck though. And that 17" isn't fun even for shorter folks. I could stand to lose 10 lbs or so, but at 5'7", I'm not tall. Legroom wise, I'm actually ok. But the slimline seat cushions still suck for me and 17" still feels really cramped even though I'm not all that big. 10 across just sucks for adults.

LimeyFlyer

My 10c..

I think various posters have already alluded to it.. it is a state of mind... as long as its an aisle or a window and its E+, it's ok... get a couple of drinks before, a couple as soon as you get on, use eyeshades, and pass out as much as you can. Somehow, I think you generally find a not too uncomfortable position to sleep in, and I speak as someone who is the last to sleep in an upright position.

As a relatively "heavy" person I have also done the HKG to NYC non stop in a middle, middle seat, albeit with lots of alcohol and over the counter meds to make me pass out.

For me, just expect that it isn't the best place to be, but it is for a limited number of hours, take some movies, and just accept it. .. you know what you are getting into, and if you want to lie flat, get your credit card out..think of all the money you have saved over business class :-)

I'm old and long in the tooth, travel business for work, but for myself I have only paid for business class once, and that was to make sure myself, my wife and my parents got to travel on a 10 hour trip from GRU to EWR in business, which was thrilling to all of us. Otherwise $60 alcohol < business class ticket.

spin88

I have done as you suggests and survived, but I would note that the sCO 772 you were on HKG-EWR is 3-3-3 in E+ with 35" of pitch with 5" of recline, the aisles are 19" wide, and each seat's actual width (seat+armrest) is 21.3".

The OP is talking about flying the UA 789, which is also 3-3-3, but the plane is 16" narrower than the 777. The math is simple, you get 19.8" of width, plus a slim-line seat, plus only 4" of recline to go with the 35" pitch. We have also talked about UA's new 77W/77HD which has 18" aisles (so you get bumped more) and is 3-4-3, with I might add only three sets of foot space for the middle four seats! The Math is again simply, there is 19.4" of width/seat, but you only get 34" of pitch and 4" of recline.

So each seat on the UA 787 is 1.5" narrower, and on the 3-4-3 777 it is 1.9" narrower than what you experienced going HKG-EWR, plus the seats are slim-lines vs the much better padded seat you go, and you lose recline and on the new 777s pitch. I for one, can't sleep in the new seats at all, and absent a child or an empty seat next to me, my shoulders lap over/smash against the person next to me.

bdw1120

Eat rice/carb and pass out from food coma.

Artpen100

Sure, but I was responding to all those who think that flying International Econ is fine, so just do that all the time. If you can’t afford a couple of extra hundred dollars and a GPU or some miles, I understand that. But I won’t pass it up.

And if you have an important work meeting when you land, don’t tell me Y versus J makes no difference to the clarity of your thinking. I’ve done that, and I beg to differ.

skimthetrees

Which browsers do you consider to be modern? All of what I would call modern browsers support Adobe Flash on the PC -- Firefox, Chrome, Edge, even IE which some may not consider modern. On Chrome and Edge it is built in. You do have go into a settings menu to enable it though. Tablets are a different story, not many Tablets support Flash but that is not the fault of the Browser it is a platform decision by Adobe.

ExplorerWannabe

I appreciate international J as much as anybody have recently been paying for it (up to a point) when I could on my annual international vacations. However, the level of "pain" described in this thread is just laughable and makes me want to bring a bag of dried peas on my next trip so I can slip them under the seat cushions and see who complains. I just flew on UA E+ from IAH to SYD and back a few weeks ago and on NH E from DEN to NRT back in November (paid for J on the return). 789 on UA, 788 on NH. I last flew LAX-SIN a few years ago (in E+) and the experience wasn't that bad.

I actually find the Slimline seats themselves are no less comfortable than the old seats EXCEPT that I do find new seating to be a bit narrow and recline is abysmal in Y no matter who you fly anymore. I did find the really new seats with the bottoms that slide forward a little bit as you recline were a bit more comfortable but I think that was a domestic 737 rather than an international 787. I miss flying the 747 on TWA or Pan Am but that's just not an option in 2018 and hasn't been for some time. Watching the seating chart (something we couldn't do not so long ago) and trying to make sure you have an empty seat next to you helps with the seat width problem.

As has been noted, food portions do seem to have diminished. I wasn't aware until this week that I could ask for additional servings (if they have them after they finish regular service). OTOH, my doctor would probably prefer that I don't ask for extra portions and might even be happier if I got NO portion on the flight ... As far as taste goes, even going back 30, 40 years, food in Y has never IMO been anything more than a way to relieve hunger pains and it does that today (albeit more marginally due to the portion sizes). If you want Panda Express (or Dickey's BBQ or Wendy's or ...), then bring it yourself.

They do indeed provide a pillow and blanket on every seat for international Y. The pillows seem smaller and flatter than they used to and the blankets seem a little thinner but both are generally adequate. As has been noted, a neck pillow can make a huge difference. I brought one on the IAH-SYD flight for the first time in my life and it was a LOT better than the airline pillows. I used those for lumbar support or additional cushion against the bulkhead as mentioned above.

The IFE is a step up from entertainment options several years ago or the old movie projectors from decades past. I found a good selection of movies and TV shows available on international flights. If you need a larger screen, you can always bring your own laptop or tablet but in-flight power may be an issue. I've found the power outlets stink and any 2-prong converter just falls out on over half of the flights I've taken. On the other hand, I believe the UA 789 and NH 788 provide a single USB port (1A only!) at each seat.

I have rarely -- if ever -- felt the need for noise canceling headsets on the 787 or 777 but I do prefer to use my own isolating earbuds to the ones provided by the airline. My experience has been that most people are plugged into the IFE or their own electronics so there is less conversation or noise in the main cabin than in times past. Then again, I've never had to sit next to a baby crying for 8+ hours ... if I did, I'd probably want those noise-canceling headsets.

I agree with the suggestions to watch the seatmaps (something we couldn't do at all not too long ago) and try to get an empty row or at least empty seat next to you and with taking a refillable water bottle so you aren't stuck with the crew's timeline for bringing 3-4 oz of water to you.

santarosaflyer

I agree with much that has been said.

i find the food in international Y varied. Options are always chicken or pasta. I spend about $10 and buy a backup meal in the airport to take on board.

i also carry a couple of baggies so that I may take something from the lounge say cheese and crackers.

some of the chicken dishes are decent and others are not. At least I have a sandwich. Plus I have a stash at home of things I pack before I fly. I pack a snack box which I save from previous flights, chips, olives, protein bars, nuts and crackers. These have kept me from being hungry on a few flights

If I eat the UA meal the most I am out is say $10

PaxALotl

I have to agree with those who say that much of this is state-of-mind, perception, expectations, etc.

I am 6 feet and about 215 pounds, just a bit overweight and unfortunately broad shouldered. I routinely fly e+ on United/Lufthansa for my business. Usually DEN to somewhere in E. Europe via FRA or MUC or DEN to somewhere in Asia via Narita. I fly business class maybe once annually, but generally I'm in the back for 10+ RT long-hauls per year for 20 years now.

My experience is: if I'm in a center seat, and there are two large people on either side, it's going to be a long, uncomfortable squeeze from beginning to end. A center seat makes the the flight a bit miserable because you can never really relax your body, always adjusting somehow. Needing to lean forward, negotiate the armrest with the neighbor, and lean side to side can result in real back pain for my aging body and that makes for a rough flight. I will avoid center seats at all costs.

Other than that, I'm fine in e+ and I will be ok in ordinary economy.

No, the food is not great. No, it's not comfortable.
I cant sleep on planes so I'm subject to the crap entertainment system or my kindle.

But short of a medical issue, some physical pain or other issue, is it really so bad to just sit for 10 hours and deal with it? Only when compared to the experience up front does it seem so dire in the back.

I watch people lumber aboard at the start of a long-haul, armed with the neck pillows, water bottles, food, their special flying outfit, and a facial expression that would be more appropriate when being led to a firing line. The anticipation of the long-haul has built up in their minds over time. "Here begins this nightmare of travel. Oh what horror this flight will be! What if I can't sleep? What if I'm uncomfortable? The sorrow and the pity of it all"

Then there are those who just sit down and try to relax and wait for it to be over. That's me. The food is never great, but I usually eat half of what's served and I'm fine. The coffee isn't great but it'll do. I will usually get up and walk around every 90 min, which isn't a problem because it's not so hard to reserve an aisle seat. There are usually some decent movies though I've seen them all because I fly the same airlines a lot, but there are worse things than a bad movie. The internet isn't great, but it usually works well enough for me to surf the web a bit and look at baby pics on Facebook.

And yea, I'm more tired after flying in economy than I would be flying up-front. So, I plan accordingly with my schedule on both sides and I invest time in finding flights where the arrival times allow some kind of adjustment or reasonable schedule (i.e. arriving i the evening when possible). But, even a rough flight is just a rough flight.

There is also the more preachy (and annoying) factor that anyone who is flying around enough to be exploring this issue of 'business vs economy' is almost certainly someone with a decent income/job/lifestyle/environment - for so much of the world's population even a single flight is an expensive ordeal that is a rare (or nonexistent) treat. So, it's pretty 1% to be on this forum at all. I am right there with you, trying to game the miles systems and get upgrades as we trapeze around the world inserting greenhouse gases directly into the atmosphere in our shiny metal tubes. So, no judgements - but it's not all that bad!

I consider myself very lucky to have seen so much of the world, but not so special that I cant sit in the back with everyone else!

hughw

Few EWR-BRU-CDG a few months ago in J. Then flew back CDG-EWR in Y on a 767 sharing a pair of seats (2-3-2) in E+ with my wife. Sure, the flight going out in J was good, but I couldn't sleep anyway. My wife said she would have preferred flying direct EWR-CDG in the E+ pair than having to connect in BRU (where we came close to missing our BRU-CDG flight). I don't know, but that pair in E+ isn't bad...