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Originally Posted by wolf72
(Post 24818559)
Some of these incidents are petty and could easily be resolved with a little bit of common courtesy (by the FA's) and less demanding by passengers (the mother) and maybe a little bit of planning on her part (the mother) without resorting to making comments like "when she starts scratching.."
I mean, both sides are at fault in this..the Flight attendant for being a complete jerk and not wanting to get the food heated up in the first place when he could have easily have done it without the theatrics...and the mother for over reacting and making it a bigger issue than it was... Who suffered as a result? Everyone else..because 2 people could not communicate appropriately. I am surprised no one has actually had a go at the FA for that "attitude" problem.. And this coming from a regular traveller who has seen the worst in passengers in China and India.... I base my opinions on what is in the articles only, not on what is posted by FT'rs and withhold final judgement on either side as I was not there |
A perspective of a parent who has a child with special needs.
Hello everyone, I am a long time lurker, especially in the trip reports section. I have never posted before because I seldom get to travel so I never felt that I have anything to contribute to the discussion; although I do love to do so vicariously, especially reading about luxurious first class experiences and 5 star accommodations. :D
I decided to come out 'hiding' because I have some strong feelings about this issue....and they are not what some of you might expect. I am also the mother of a special needs child, who has many behaviors on the spectrum. I am very well versed the issues, challenges , needs and joys of parenting such a child. IMO- Donna (although the father is also just as responsible for his child ) is the face of this fiasco. The parents better than anyone know the needs of their child, yet were ultimately ill equipped to provide them, nor do I feel they set their child up for 'success' in this particular journey. After a week of over stimulation in a crowded amusement park, in a humid climate, followed by a long journey is a very ambitious undertaking, especially given that it seems her daughter is not very high functioning and self regulation is a continued challenge for her. I'm certainly not suggesting that parents of special needs children can't go on vacations or anywhere else for that matter. What I am saying is that it is the responsibility of the parent(s) to be aware of their child's limitations. If the parent pushes the envelope to get the 'most out of their family vacation' , at the same time, they really aren't setting their child for success either. I know most of us grew up with expectation, that child will eat whatever is put in front of them if they are hungry enough and/or as far as options, we had two choices- take it or leave it. But it's really not as simple as that when you are dealing with sensory and textural based issues. It really is a struggle and a challenge that requires therapy to try and overcome, and even then there are still battles. There are also children on the spectrum who have special diets such as gluten and casein free. The parent's that I know who have children on this diet are the ones that take on the responsibility for their child's dietary restrictions. They don't demand that GF CF bread cost the same as regular loaf, in the same fashion that most of us know that organic food can cost more than generic. They know that most restaurants have limited offerings , so they research and find establishments that meet their needs. This girl's parents who should know better than anyone about their child's feeding issues and likes and dislikes, failed to make sure that the proper provisions were in place to ensure that she had a substantial hot meal to eat or to have a good contingency plan in place. They claimed that they attempted to get her to eat in Houston but she refused food. Which brings me back to, the claim that their child will only eat a HOT meals, but who now also eats or refuses food at will; put their child on an aircraft that not only had limited snack offering but no hot food in their category. So how did they set their child up for success given such narrow parameters? So, when this innocent teen hit their breaking point..the mother shifted the onus on flight crew to remedy the issue by wanting to order an item from the first glass menu. Supporters of the the mom have tried to defend it buy saying that it's not like she wanted it for free, she offered to pay. But how does one affix a price to something that is just simply not offered for sale? By the same token that someone traveling in Emirates coach can not just offer to buy a glass Hennessy Paradis on demand. I've seen posts here and elsewhere that have suggested or wondered if a HOT meal from the first class menu is something that would be applicable under ADA or ACAA- but I fail to see how or why. The spirit of these regulations to to ensure that folks with disabilities have equal access to places or establishments, even if it requires some reasonable accommodation. The most common examples of which would be a building with stairs outside also being required to have a wheelchair ramp, or a service dog being permitted in restaurant. Children or adults with autism are not prohibited from flying, they are not being denied access. A HOT meal is not a requirement or need for in order autistic people to fly. A hot meal is just something that preferential to this particular child's sensitives. United airline's did not prevent the family from eating a hot meal before the flight or during a layover. United didn't prevent the family from bringing hot food on board in insulated bag. United airline's didn't not prevent the family from buying a first class ticket, which would have been their only assurance of a hot meal on board the air craft. So now we have a 'howling' teenager girl in the begining of what the mother warned was 'meltdown mode'. Meltdown's aren't unique to families with special needs children. As parent's we know that they are challenging and frustrating to deal with and sometimes embarrassing when they happen in public. Yes, a kind word or a sympathetic look of understanding from another parent or adult can help with a feeling of being supported. But ultimately, we are the ones that are responsible to regain control of our own children. But in an act of either desperation or frustration in an effort to get the FA to relent and provide the child with a first class meal item..the mother threw down a very big gauntlet "If she reaches melt down mode and starts to SCRATCH someone , will you help then?" . She in affect , extorted a meal from first class and explicitly stated that harm could come to others if her demand was not met. In this post 9/11 and Patriot Act enacted era we live in, it boggles my mind why any normally rational person wouldn't govern themselves and their words more accordingly, especially in a what needs to be a secured area under government domain and/or regulation. This mother has led others and the media to believe, that a diversion was made because the airline was intolerant to the wails and cries of an autistic teen. Hardly...the plane was diverted because this girls mother told flight crew that her daughter posed a violent threat to others on board- and they believed her. And finally in the last coup de grace, as the family are being escorted off the aircraft the mother further exploits her child , by pointing out a now calm and vulnerable girl and attempted to rally support by asking "Does anyone feel threated by her? " . Um-no...most folks aren't afraid of teenagers girls wearing head phones. Most folks are also not afraid of annoying sounds, such as the wails and cries of babies, children or people with special needs. Heck, some folks might even tolerate being scratched, hit, kicked or bit by someone with special needs. But it's not up to neighboring passengers to determine what types of threats are permissible and which are not. In the same fashion that passengers also don't get to decide if weather conditions are severe enough to cause a flight to be canceled or re-routed. Could United have done anything differently? Sure, if they had hot food options in domestic first class this might have been avoided. But they don't... The FA could have just caved in sooner and given given them a meal from first class despite that there is no obligation or requirement to do so Neither of which require 'sensitivity' training on the part of the airline. In real introspect, the parents should be asking themselves "What should WE have done differently". Instead, she is threatening a lawsuit. :td: |
Originally Posted by Martina70
(Post 24821632)
She[,] in [effect], extorted a meal from first class and explicated stated that harm could come to others if her demand was not met.
|
Originally Posted by Baze
(Post 24820736)
Just curious, how would they have heated it up, last I knew there were no microwave ovens on planes. Yes, there are ovens on a lot of the planes but that could take a while to heat the food if the mother had provided any, which I did not see happen in the article. And they did bring the child a warm first class meal, so just how was the FA being a "jerk"? Looks to me like they started out trying to help the situation and it went against the family when the mother said the child may start hurting other passengers.
I base my opinions on what is in the articles only, not on what is posted by FT'rs and withhold final judgement on either side as I was not there I am sure they do have whatever you call it..microwave or whatever it's called.. |
Originally Posted by Martina70
(Post 24821632)
Hello everyone, I am a long time lurker, especially in the trip reports section. I have never posted before because I seldom get to travel so I never felt that I have anything to contribute to the discussion; although I do love to do so vicariously, especially reading about luxurious first class experiences and 5 star accommodations. :D
|
Originally Posted by love_to_travel
(Post 24821863)
Great first post.
|
Originally Posted by Martina70
(Post 24821632)
Hello everyone, I am a long time lurker, especially in the trip reports section. I have never posted before because I seldom get to travel so I never felt that I have anything to contribute to the discussion; although I do love to do so vicariously, especially reading about luxurious first class experiences and 5 star accommodations. :D
I decided to come out 'hiding' because I have some strong feelings about this issue....and they are not what some of you might expect. I am also the mother of a special needs child, who has many behaviors on the spectrum. I am very well versed the issues, challenges , needs and joys of parenting such a child. IMO- Donna (although the father is also just as responsible for his child ) is the face of this fiasco. The parents better than anyone know the needs of their child, yet were ultimately ill equipped to provide them, nor do I feel they set their child up for 'success' in this particular journey. After a week of over stimulation in a crowded amusement park, in a humid climate, followed by a long journey is a very ambitious undertaking, especially given that it seems her daughter is not very high functioning and self regulation is a continued challenge for her. I'm certainly not suggesting that parents of special needs children can't go on vacations or anywhere else for that matter. What I am saying is that it is the responsibility of the parent(s) to be aware of their child's limitations. If the parent pushes the envelope to get the 'most out of their family vacation' , at the same time, they really aren't setting their child for success either. I know most of usgrew up with expectation, that child will eat whatever is put in front of them if they are hungry enough and/or as far as options, we had two choices- take it or leave it. But it's really not as simple as that when you are dealing with sensory and textural based issues. It really is a struggle and a challenge that requires therapy to try and overcome, and even then there are still battles. There are also children on the spectrum who have special diets such as gluten and casein free. The parent's of children that I know who have children on this diet are the ones that take on the responsibility for their child's dietary restrictions. They don't demand that GF CF bread cost the same as generic loaf, in the same fashion that most of us know that organic food can cost more than generic. They know that most restaurants have limited offerings , so they research and find establishments that meet their needs. This girl's parents who should know better than anyone about their child's feeding issues and likes and dislikes, failed to make sure that the proper provisions were in place to ensure that she had a substantial hot meal to eat or to have a good contingency plan in place. They claimed that they attempted to get her to eat in Houston but she refused food. Which brings me back to, the claim that their child will only eat a HOT meals, but who now also eats or refuses food at will; put their child on an aircraft that not only had limited snack offering but no hot food in their category. So how did they set their child up for success given such narrow parameters? So, when this innocent teen hit their breaking point..the mother shifted the onus on flight crew to remedy the issue by wanting to order an item from the first glass menu. Supporters of the the mom have tried to defend it buy saying that it's not like she wanted it for free, she offered to pay. But how does one affix a price to something that is just simply not offered for sale? By the same token that someone traveling in Emirates coach can not just offer to buy a glass Hennessy Paradis on demand. I've seen posts here and elsewhere that have suggested or wondered if a HOT meal from the first class menu is something that would be applicable under ADA or ACAA- but I fail to see how or why. The spirit of these regulations to to ensure that folks with disabilities have equal access to places or establishments, even if it requires some reasonable accommodation. The most common examples of which would be a building with stairs outside also being required to have a wheelchair ramp, or a service dog being permitted in restaurant. Children or adults with autism are not prohibited from flying, they are not being denied access. A HOT meal is not a requirement or need for in order autistic people to fly. A hot meal is just something that preferential to this particular child's sensitives. United airline's did not prevent the family from eating a hot meal before the flight or during a layover. United didn't prevent the family from bringing hot food on board in insulated bag. United airline's didn't not prevent the family from buying a first class ticket, which would have been their only assurance of a hot meal on board the air craft. So now we have a 'howling' teenager girl in the begin of what the mother warned was 'meltdown mode'. Meltdown's aren't unique to families with special needs children. As parent's we know that they are challenging and frustrating to deal with and sometimes embarrassing when they happen in public. Yes, a kind word or a sympathetic look of understanding form another parent or adult can help with a feeling of being supported. But ultimately, we are the ones that are responsible to regain control of our own children. But in an act of either desperation or frustration in an effort to get the FA to relent and provide the child with a first class meal item..the mother threw down a very big gauntlet "If she reaches melt down mode and starts to SCRATCH someone one, will you help then?" . She in affect , extorted a meal from first class and explicated stated that harm could come to others if her demand was not met. In this post 9/11 and Patriot Act enacted era we live in, it boggles my mind why any normally rational person wouldn't govern themselves and their words more accordingly, especially in a what needs to be a secured area under government domain and/or regulation. This mother has led others and the media to believe, that a diversion was made because the airline was intolerant to the wails and cries of an autistic teen. Hardly...the plane was diverted because this girls mother told flight crew that her daughter posed a violent threat to others on board- and they believed her. And finally in the last coup de grace, as the family are being escorted off the aircraft the mother further exploits her child , by pointing out a now calm and vulnerable girl and attempted to rally support by asking "Does anyone feel threated by her? " . Um-no...most folks aren't afraid of teenagers girls wearing head phones. Most folks are also not afraid of annoying sounds, such as the wails and cries of babies, children or people with special needs. Heck, some folks might even tolerate being scratched, hit, kicked or bite by someone with special needs. But it's not up to neighboring passengers to determine what types of threats are permissible and which are not. In the same fashion that passengers also don't get to decide if weather conditions are severe enough to cause a flight to be canceled or re-routed. Could United have done anything differently? Sure, if they had hot food options in domestic first class this might have been avoid. But they don't... The FA could have just caved in sooner and given given them a meal from first class despite that there is no obligation or requirement to do so Neither of which require 'sensitivity' training on the part of the airline. In real introspect, the parents should be asking themselves "What should WE have done differently". Instead, she is threatening a lawsuit. :td: I think it's fair to say the sensitivity training should apply not only to the parents but the FA's of the airline. Again, a small issue that could have been solved with a little bit of care, attention and passion for their job...instead of allowing the situation to boil over..which it did.. I think too many of you are avoiding any blame for the airline. |
Originally Posted by Martina70
(Post 24821632)
In real introspect, the parents should be asking themselves "What should WE have done differently". Instead, she is threatening a lawsuit. :td:
Originally Posted by wolf72
(Post 24821862)
No ability to heat up meals in the first class set up?
I am sure they do have whatever you call it..microwave or whatever it's called.. If not a F meal, what would you have the FA heat up, a bag of potato chips? That can't be safe. I can understand only heating up the meals that were supplied in the appropriate containers for heating. If you have additional information on oven safety specs, please do share. Otherwise, assume that only the F meal could be heated in the oven, which is PRECISELY what was done. UA failing to provide food in this situation has NOTHING to do with the situation, I don't understand why people keep posting about it. Food WAS provided. Just because the FA didn't break company policy and provide it immediately is no reason for a safety threat. At this point, there are two issues to discuss. 1) Did the mother actually make a safety threat? 2) Should that safety threat have resulted in a diversion? The captain most certainly did not divert due to an economy passenger requesting a meal. The flight was diverted due to safety. What initiated the situation really doesn't matter unless you believe the mother had the right to get a meal and was wrongfully denied. |
Martina,
Thank you for the insight and thoughtful post. |
Originally Posted by reamworks
(Post 24821830)
Exactly! It's a shame this woman wasn't arrested. She should have been.
However, if it were me, and I made the terrible error in judgment by using verbiage that could reasonably be taken as a safety and physical threat, I would be thankful that the airline didn't hold me financially responsible for the associate fees as the result of the diversion. |
Originally Posted by mrboom
(Post 24822227)
Martina,
Thank you for the insight and thoughtful post. Thank you for reading it and making me feel welcomed out of lurkerdome :D |
Originally Posted by Martina70
(Post 24822238)
Thank you for reading it and making me feel welcomed out of lurkerdome :D
Thanks for your thoughts! Greg |
Originally Posted by wolf72
(Post 24821862)
No ability to heat up meals in the first class set up?
I am sure they do have whatever you call it..microwave or whatever it's called.. And as has been stated MANY times, a hot F class meal was given to the child. |
Originally Posted by wolf72
(Post 24822057)
I think it's fair to say the sensitivity training should apply not only to the parents but the FA's of the airline. Again, a small issue that could have been solved with a little bit of care, attention and passion for their job...instead of allowing the situation to boil over..which it did..
I think too many of you are avoiding any blame for the airline. The FA didn't yell at or reprimand the parents for having on the surface what seems like an out of control teen and that if they didn't get a handle on her, the plane would be diverted. The FA didn't tell the parents "It's your fault for raising a 'picky eater'." or anything else to suggest an intolerance or ignorance relating to autism. Their child was supposedly hungry- (although I suspect there were also plenty of other external factors that led to the child's melt down) and none of the food offerings that were available in their class either met their needs or satisfaction. How is that, the fault of the airline? Maybe the FA is generally a jerk or maybe they are the one of the best employee's United has but their reluctance to not pander to and break established rules and protocol to meet the expectations or needs of this family have little to do with autism over all. |
Originally Posted by Martina70
(Post 24821632)
In this post 9/11 and Patriot Act enacted era we live in, it boggles my mind why any normally rational person wouldn't govern themselves and their words more accordingly, especially in a what needs to be a secured area under government domain and/or regulation. This mother has led others and the media to believe, that a diversion was made because the airline was intolerant to the wails and cries of an autistic teen. Hardly...the plane was diverted because this girls mother told flight crew that her daughter posed a violent threat to others on board- and they believed her. And finally in the last coup de grace, as the family are being escorted off the aircraft the mother further exploits her child , by pointing out a now calm and vulnerable girl and attempted to rally support by asking "Does anyone feel threated by her? " . Um-no...most folks aren't afraid of teenagers girls wearing head phones. Most folks are also not afraid of annoying sounds, such as the wails and cries of babies, children or people with special needs. Heck, some folks might even tolerate being scratched, hit, kicked or bite by someone with special needs. But it's not up to neighboring passengers to determine what types of threats are permissible and which are not. In the same fashion that passengers also don't get to decide if weather conditions are severe enough to cause a flight to be canceled or re-routed. Could United have done anything differently? Sure, if they had hot food options in domestic first class this might have been avoid. But they don't... The FA could have just caved in sooner and given given them a meal from first class despite that there is no obligation or requirement to do so Neither of which require 'sensitivity' training on the part of the airline. In real introspect, the parents should be asking themselves "What should WE have done differently". Instead, she is threatening a lawsuit. :td: Best post of this thread. |
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