Feb 2, 2024, 11:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is Consolidated UA "Hidden City Ticketing Questions"
from Airline booking ploys
Throwaway Tickets , such book RT and only use OW - any issues with UA?
Related threads
UA sues "hidden city" search site Skiplagged.com
United asking gate agents to report hidden ticket travelers
from Airline booking ploys
Throwaway ticketing is purchasing a ticket with the intent to use only a portion of the included travel. This situation may arise when a passenger wants to travel only one way, but where the discounted round-trip excursion fare is cheaper than a one-way ticket
Hidden city ticketing (HCT) is a variant of throwaway ticketing. The passenger books a ticket to a fictitious destination (the "hidden" city) with a connection at the intended destination, walks away at the connection node, and discards the remaining segment.
UA sues "hidden city" search site Skiplagged.com
United asking gate agents to report hidden ticket travelers
Consolidated UA "Hidden City Ticketing Questions" {Archive}
Oct 28, 2018, 8:04 am
#406
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OP, I recently had a reservation from LAX-EWR refuse to ticket, presumably because I had a UA flight booked an hour earlier on the same route (wasn’t sure which one I wanted and price was good). Interestingly, only when I cancelled the first ticket did the second reservation ticket.
The UA system is getting smarter.
The UA system is getting smarter.
Oct 28, 2018, 8:58 am
#407
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It's actually generally called "end-on-end" ticketing, not end-to-end, and it has to do with combining multiple fares on a single ticket. Some cheaper fares restrict the ability to combine the fare with another fare on a single ticket. The restrictions are listed in the Combinability section of the fare rules and you will see something like " IF THE FARE IS USED END-ON-END MUST BE AN A-B-A COMBINATION. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED". Which means the fare can only be combined with another fare on a single ticket if it's a simple roundtrip booking. Unlike HCT, it is NOT a CoC violation to simply book the additional fare on a separate ticket. In order to get the desired routing on a single ticket, you have to upfare to a higher fare class that does not have the end-on-end restrictions. The disadvantage of booking as separate tickets is that you may not be as well protected in the event of schedule changes and IRROP's.
Oct 28, 2018, 9:05 am
#408
Join Date: Sep 2008
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United does have the possibility to findout, im telling you from my own experience. They caught me with two bookings for about same times. Funny i thought i was clever and one was on Ua and another one was on LH and they still found it. I was socked that their system could pick up even from LH so I have no doubt that Ua to Ua would be a breeze for their system to find out
Oct 28, 2018, 9:20 am
#409
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My advice would be that the OP should plan to fly to LAX, as ticketed for the EZE RT, and then continue to SEA on a separate UA LAX-SEA ticket, allowing a somewhat more than MCT at LAX just in case. Upon check in at EZE, show the agent printouts of both tickets and reservations (hard copy) and ask that the bag be checked through to SEA. If this doesn't work, I would try again after exiting customs at IAH (there should be a service counter there with UA agents) to have the bag re-tagged to SEA, again showing hard copies off both tickets and reservations. Do this before re-checking the bag, of course.
Oct 28, 2018, 9:24 am
#410
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In my opinion, this is textbook HCT and duplicate booking, and I'd strongly concur with the above recommendations to book LAX-SEA on UA. Worst case scenario, if EZE-IAH or IAH-LAX is delayed, UA will likely be willing to reroute OP on EZE-IAH-SEA direct, as it's a UA-caused misconnect. They're not going to extend the same courtesy in an HCT scenario.
Oct 28, 2018, 9:33 am
#411
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Oct 28, 2018, 10:03 am
#412
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Oct 28, 2018, 10:21 am
#413
Join Date: Feb 2000
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book IAH-SEA in format last name Doe first name JohnDavidMr via Priceline.
don’t put a frequent flyer number on booking and enter your DOB with a typo.
OLCI IAH-SEA.
arrive EZE-IAH, Immigrations/Customs/TSA airside on IAH-LAX boarding pass.
cancel self-service IAH-LAX segment via app or telephone agent (cough cough).
at departure gate IAH-SEA, add frequent flier number.
fly IAH-SEA.
don’t put a frequent flyer number on booking and enter your DOB with a typo.
OLCI IAH-SEA.
arrive EZE-IAH, Immigrations/Customs/TSA airside on IAH-LAX boarding pass.
cancel self-service IAH-LAX segment via app or telephone agent (cough cough).
at departure gate IAH-SEA, add frequent flier number.
fly IAH-SEA.
Oct 28, 2018, 11:12 am
#414
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OP, I recently had a reservation from LAX-EWR refuse to ticket, presumably because I had a UA flight booked an hour earlier on the same route (wasn’t sure which one I wanted and price was good). Interestingly, only when I cancelled the first ticket did the second reservation ticket.
The UA system is getting smarter.
The UA system is getting smarter.
Oct 28, 2018, 11:21 am
#415
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Per the above comments, don't use your MP# (or log in at all) when making the dummy booking.
Oct 28, 2018, 12:22 pm
#416
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At the end of the day any corporation who has to face a jury will have tremendous pause due to the inherent risk in doing so.
However many "normal" citizens are emplaned will carry their unknown biases, prejudices, beliefs, etc. which will be used to articulate the jury's verdict. There's no way to know these in advance and jury selection can only weed out the obviously biased potential jurors. Point is even if the law is blatantly on UA's side, a jury can STILL tell the airline to pound sand - think back to the northern juries pre civil way who refused to convict those who aided runaway slaves if you're looking for a dramatic example of this in action.
If it becomes precedent that UA (or any carrier) cannot enforce an unconscionable aspect of the Contract of Carriage - i.e. FORCING a customer to take a flight - it kicks out a major component of how airlines sell and price their fares. Moreover, it also opens the door for lawsuits against the carrier for retributions taken against customers. UA closed my account for hidden city ticketing? That's not fair! The entire concept of "hidden city ticketing" is unconscionable therefore it is also unconscionable for UA to take any negative action against me! AND if a sanction or closure of a M+ account goes to a jury the law might again be on UA's side but the jury might STILL decide against UA and blow a massive hole in the concept of loyalty accounts are the property of the issuer and can be changed/closed at the issuer's whim.
Anyways the tl;dr of this is litigation is fraught with peril. If UA loses the entire industry may be dealt a serious blow and even if UA "wins" they can still lose in the long run.
However many "normal" citizens are emplaned will carry their unknown biases, prejudices, beliefs, etc. which will be used to articulate the jury's verdict. There's no way to know these in advance and jury selection can only weed out the obviously biased potential jurors. Point is even if the law is blatantly on UA's side, a jury can STILL tell the airline to pound sand - think back to the northern juries pre civil way who refused to convict those who aided runaway slaves if you're looking for a dramatic example of this in action.
If it becomes precedent that UA (or any carrier) cannot enforce an unconscionable aspect of the Contract of Carriage - i.e. FORCING a customer to take a flight - it kicks out a major component of how airlines sell and price their fares. Moreover, it also opens the door for lawsuits against the carrier for retributions taken against customers. UA closed my account for hidden city ticketing? That's not fair! The entire concept of "hidden city ticketing" is unconscionable therefore it is also unconscionable for UA to take any negative action against me! AND if a sanction or closure of a M+ account goes to a jury the law might again be on UA's side but the jury might STILL decide against UA and blow a massive hole in the concept of loyalty accounts are the property of the issuer and can be changed/closed at the issuer's whim.
Anyways the tl;dr of this is litigation is fraught with peril. If UA loses the entire industry may be dealt a serious blow and even if UA "wins" they can still lose in the long run.
IANAL but this discussion is making me wonder about the DOT rule prohibiting post-ticketing price increases, for example the prohibition against charging customers more when they are reboooked during IROPs or collecting upgrade fees for OPUPs. Could sending an ex post bill to the customer after a hidden city itinerary has been flown violate this regulation?
Oct 28, 2018, 2:50 pm
#417
Join Date: Jan 2013
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I got both reservations ticketed, and the IAH-SEA without a MP number, so its all good!
Oct 28, 2018, 3:46 pm
#418
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IANAL but this discussion is making me wonder about the DOT rule prohibiting post-ticketing price increases, for example the prohibition against charging customers more when they are reboooked during IROPs or collecting upgrade fees for OPUPs. Could sending an ex post bill to the customer after a hidden city itinerary has been flown violate this regulation?
If collecting the proper fare for the actual itinerary flown were to be an impermissible post-purchase price increase I don't see how change fees/re-faring for more formal voluntary changes (e.g. calling or via the website) could escape the same fate -- and clearly DOT hasn't found change fees/refaring to be problematic.
Specifically 14 CFR 399.88(a) specifies that "It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, [...] to increase the price of that air transportation, [...], after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer"
Although I was hoping to find a more formal definition of "air transportation" 14 CFR 298.2 incorporates the definition from 49 USC 40102 in which air transportation is defined as including interstate air transportation, further defined as, essentially, transportation of passengers between two places when any part is by aircraft and it's not solely within one state.
My [admittedly biased based on my predisposition on the subject] interpretation of that is that air transportation is transportation between two ultimate points, regardless of routing (and not even entirely by air) -- thus the "purchase" applies only to AAA-(any route)-BBB transportation and not, for example, the AAA-CCC portion of an AAA-CCC-BBB trip. In fact, the passenger has not purchased air transportation from AAA-CCC, so there's no "post-purchase" price to increase.
Oct 28, 2018, 4:45 pm
#419
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Generally speaking, IAH-SEA is more expensive than LAX-SEA. You already have LAX-EZE-LAX as a separate ITIN.
How much time are you giving yourself as a buffer in case of delays on arrival at IAH?
You are likely to have UA link itinerary of LAX-IAH-EZE-IAH-LAX and LAX-SEA, but you are on you own for LAX-IAH-EZE-IAH-LAX and IAH-SEA.
Oct 28, 2018, 5:20 pm
#420
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The OP wrote off the possibility of having the bags checked through across two tickets, or rechecking the luggage at IAH. While interlining across two UA itineraries can be challenging, it’s by no means impossible; I had it done just last week. It took five minutes (in my favor, the second flight wasn’t sold out; that’s the case when it gets complicated).
OP: Two last points, since you still have 24 hours to change your mind. (a) A MileagePlus number isn’t the only way UA can match you up; I’m guessing you either used the same credit card or, at a minimum, the same billing address. They also monitor this forum, including threads that ask about prohibited ticketing practices. (b) UA is under no contractual obligation to deliver you to IAH. If the EZE-IAH flight is cancelled, UA will re-route you through EWR without a moment’s thought. It’s a small chance, but it’s certainly not zero.
I must say, I’m extremely surprised that LAX-EZE + IAH-SEA was cheaper than either LAX-EZE/EZE-SEA or LAX-EZE + LAX-SEA.
OP: Two last points, since you still have 24 hours to change your mind. (a) A MileagePlus number isn’t the only way UA can match you up; I’m guessing you either used the same credit card or, at a minimum, the same billing address. They also monitor this forum, including threads that ask about prohibited ticketing practices. (b) UA is under no contractual obligation to deliver you to IAH. If the EZE-IAH flight is cancelled, UA will re-route you through EWR without a moment’s thought. It’s a small chance, but it’s certainly not zero.
I must say, I’m extremely surprised that LAX-EZE + IAH-SEA was cheaper than either LAX-EZE/EZE-SEA or LAX-EZE + LAX-SEA.