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-   -   Fifth freedom routes? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/970163-fifth-freedom-routes.html)

that_guy Jun 30, 2009 7:39 am

Fifth freedom routes?
 
I've always found these to be pretty nifty. So what's on the list (let's ignore the Open Skies flights)?

I've flown FRA-MAD on LAN, you get a snack and wine in a glass and IFE on a 340, and get to land at the wacky T4 in Barajas. I hear they do YYZ-JFK as well.

SYD-AKL on TG, EK, and probably plenty of other airlines. SFO-YVR previously on QF and PR, LAS-YVR on PR.

I think AMS-MAD is flown by KE. I took SQ from BRU-ZRH back in the day.

What else is out there and bookable?

Wiirachay Jun 30, 2009 9:33 am

SE Asia to SYD/AKL: BA, NZ
LHR-SE Asia: QF

etch5895 Jun 30, 2009 9:45 am

NYC airports have a few, including several Air India and Jet Airways flights from JFK and Newark that stop in Europe. I believe Malaysia also offers a flight from EWR to KUL stopping in ARN that can be booked.

gobluetwo Jun 30, 2009 9:54 am

Wikipedia entry on freedoms of the air for those of us for which this sounds anywhere from not at all to only vaguely familiar. Carry on. :)

mecabq Jun 30, 2009 9:59 am

Many of the European carriers make an extra stop in the Middle East, e.g., KL DMM-DOH, BA BAH-DOH, LX DXB-MCT, BD AMM-ADD. Also I have taken SQ DXB-IST a few times.

These change frequently, however, and usually, but don't always, have fifth-freedom scenarios. I am not sure if the carriers don't have rights or just choose not to sell tickets -- it seems like the latter in most cases; for example BA sells tickets BAH-DOH, but TK does not even though it operates this route.

Over on the Star Alliance form, there is a compendium of these routes, but they seem to get less and less frequent for whatever reason. I, too, and I guess a lot of others, am fascinated by these routes.

gosha83 Jun 30, 2009 10:03 am

I believe Cathay Pacific has a New York - Vancouver flight.

milepig Jun 30, 2009 10:05 am

UA flights to LHR used to continue on to AMS (and possibly other places). I think *alliance, and especialy UAs strong alliance with LH, may have killed this.

SQ used to offer ORD-AMS as a continuation flight. Died post 9/11, or maybe before. I flew it once using UA miles. Glorious flight.

Air India still flies ORD-LHR and then on to India.

that_guy Jun 30, 2009 10:10 am

I think it's the excitement of flying something other than the "usual" airlines that run a certain route.

AI and SQ run a few of those flights, LAX-FRA, JFK-FRA, ORD-FRA, IAH-DME, and others. . .
JL: MEX-YVR
And then LH has all these short hops in the Middle East / Africa that seem to change routing and book-ability pretty quickly.

MatthewLAX Jun 30, 2009 6:47 pm

LZ SCL-GRU oo
LH GRU-EZE

whistler814 Jul 2, 2009 12:05 pm

EK HKG-BKK

MatthewLAX Jul 2, 2009 12:12 pm

That reminds me that Kenya Airways, Royal Jordanian, China Airlines, Sri Lankan Airways, and Ethiopian Airways also fly between HKG and BKK.

MS also has service from BKK-CAN.

sbm12 Jul 2, 2009 1:23 pm

LA JFK-YYZ
KE LAX-GRU

There are a ton in SE Asia, probably too many to list. In addition to the others mentioned AF does BKK-SGN/HAN on alternating days of the week as a tag-on to the CDG-BKK flights.

I believe that BD has done some flights within the middle east recently though their schedule changes enough on those that pinning one down can be hard.

tjl Jul 2, 2009 3:43 pm

Singapore Airlines flies non-stop between SFO and HKG.

United Airlines used to have non-stops between NRT and PEK.

Philippine Airlines used to have non-stops between SFO and YVR.

MileageAddict Jul 2, 2009 4:55 pm


Originally Posted by tjl (Post 12005438)
Singapore Airlines flies non-stop between SFO and HKG.

United Airlines used to have non-stops between NRT and PEK.

Philippine Airlines used to have non-stops between SFO and YVR.

Japan Airlines used to fly YVR-MEX.

Eastbay1K Jul 2, 2009 5:14 pm


Originally Posted by tjl (Post 12005438)

United Airlines used to have non-stops between NRT and PEK.

UA also used to have flights from CDG to many points in western Europe.


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