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-   -   Fifth freedom routes? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/970163-fifth-freedom-routes.html)

Kiwi Flyer Jul 3, 2009 7:24 pm

Here are the current 5th freedom routes in the *A timetable (except I've removed BKK-NRT on SQ because this stops shortly).

Code:

al fr  to  notes
SA ABJ DKR
SA ABJ LBV
BD ADD AMM
BD AMM ADD
NZ APW LAX
NZ APW TBU
LH ASB GYD
LH ATH MXP LH Italia
SQ AUH KWI
LH AUH MCT
LH BCN MXP LH Italia
BD BEY KRT
MS BKK CAN
LH BKK KUL
UA BKK NRT
LH BKK SGN
MS BOM KUL
LH BRI MXP LH Italia
LH BRU MXP LH Italia
LH BUD MXP LH Italia
SQ CAI DXB
MS CAN BKK
LH CDG MXP LH Italia
LH CGK SIN
SA DKR ABJ
TK DKR GRU
SA DKR IAD
SA DKR JFK
SQ DME IAH
SQ DXB CAI
SQ DXB IST
LX DXB MCT
AC EZE SCL
LH FCO MXP LH Italia
SQ FRA JFK
JP FRA VIE
TK GRU DKR
LH GYD ASB
TG HKG ICN
NZ HKG LHR
SQ HKG SFO
UA HKG SGN
UA HKG SIN
TG HKG TPE
SA IAD DKR
SQ IAH DME
TG ICN HKG
UA ICN NRT
SQ ICN SFO
LH ICN SHE
TG ICN TPE
SQ IST DXB
SQ JFK FRA
TG KHI MCT
TG KIX MNL
OZ KIX SPN
BD KRT BEY
LH KUL BKK
MS KUL BOM
SQ KWI AUH
NZ LAX APW
NZ LAX LHR
SQ LAX NRT
NZ LAX RAR
NZ LAX TBU via APW
SA LBV ABJ
NZ LHR HKG
NZ LHR LAX
LH LHR MXP LH Italia
LH LIS MXP LH Italia
LH MAD MXP LH Italia
LH MCT AUH
LX MCT DXB
TG MCT KHI
TG MNL KIX
LH MXP ATH LH Italia
LH MXP BCN LH Italia
LH MXP BRI LH Italia
LH MXP BRU LH Italia
LH MXP BUD LH Italia
LH MXP CDG LH Italia
LH MXP FCO LH Italia
LH MXP LHR LH Italia
LH MXP LIS LH Italia
LH MXP MAD LH Italia
LH MXP NAP LH Italia
LH MXP OTP LH Italia
LH NAP MXP LH Italia
UA NRT BKK
UA NRT ICN
SQ NRT LAX
UA NRT SIN
UA NRT TPE
LH OTP MXP LH Italia
NZ RAR LAX
AC SCL EZE
SQ SFO HKG
SQ SFO ICN
LH SGN BKK
UA SGN HKG
LH SHE ICN
LH SIN CGK
UA SIN HKG
UA SIN NRT
OZ SPN KIX
NZ TBU APW
NZ TBU LAX via APW
TG TPE HKG
TG TPE ICN
UA TPE NRT
JP VIE FRA


Kiwi Flyer Jul 3, 2009 10:43 pm

Here are the current 5th freedom routes in the OW timetable.

Code:

al fr  to  notes
QF AKL LAX
LA AKL SYD also flown by QF
BA ANU GND
BA ANU SKB
BA ANU TAB
BA AUH MCT
BA BAH DOH
CX BAH DXB
CX BKK BOM
CX BKK CMB
CX BKK DEL
RJ BKK HKG also flown by CX
CX BKK KHI
QF BKK LHR also flown by BA
CX BKK SIN
BA BKK SYD also flown by QF
LA BOG MIA also flown by AA
CX BOM BKK
CX BOM DXB
QF BOM SIN
LA CCS MIA also flown by AA
CX CMB BKK
CX DEL BKK
BA DOH BAH
CX DXB BAH
CX DXB BOM
BA EZE GRU
AA EZE MVD
LA FRA MAD also flown by IB
QF FRA SIN
CX FUK TPE
BA GCM NAS
BA GND ANU
BA GRU EZE
JL GRU JFK also flown by AA
RJ HKG BKK also flown by CX
QF HKG LHR also flown by CX
CX ICN TPE
JL JFK GRU also flown by AA
CX JFK YVR
LA JFK YYZ also flown by AA
CX KHI BKK
CX KIX TPE
JL KUL SIN
QF LAX AKL
LA LAX LIM
QF LHR BKK also flown by BA
QF LHR HKG also flown by BA & CX
QF LHR SIN 2 onward destinations, also flown by BA
LA LIM LAX
LA LPB VVI
LA MAD FRA
BA MCT AUH
JL MEX YVR
LA MIA BOG also flown by AA
LA MIA CCS also flown by AA
LA MIA PUJ also flown by AA
LA MPN RGL
AA MVD EZE
BA NAS GCM
BA NAS PLS
CX NGO TPE
CX NRT TPE
BA PLS NAS
BA POS UVF
LA PUJ HAV
LA PUJ MIA also flown by AA
LA RGL MPN
CX SIN BKK
QF SIN BOM
QF SIN FRA
JL SIN KUL
QF SIN LHR 2 origins, also flown by BA
BA SIN SYD also flown by QF
BA SKB ANU
LA SYD AKL also flown by QF
BA SYD BKK also flown by QF
BA SYD SIN also flown by QF
BA TAB ANU
CX TPE FUK
CX TPE ICN
CX TPE KIX
CX TPE NGO
CX TPE NRT
BA UVF POS
LA VVI LPB
CX YVR JFK
JL YVR MEX
LA YYZ JFK also flown by AA


gregmchicago Jul 4, 2009 7:21 pm

Long ago--shortly after the last Ice Age--AF operated MEX-HOU (Hobby - IAH didn't yet exist)-Paris (presumably ORY).

I remember as a teenager taking it MEX-HOU in F with my parents. After a week in Mexico, I was just beginning to respond in Spanish when addressed. The flight attendant asked me, "voulez-vous du champagne?" The change of language flummoxed me enough that I had trouble stammering out a positive answer in any language.

ekchidiya Jul 21, 2009 11:17 am

No it doesnt
 
redacted

alanh Jul 21, 2009 2:33 pm

Are there any that aren't stopovers on a longer route? For example, SQ 62 is actually SIN-DME-IAH. Is there any airline from country A that operates a flight that only stops on countries B and C?

Kiwi Flyer Jul 21, 2009 2:48 pm

Yes - lots within Europe, although strictly these aren't fifth freedom flights, and also some between Europe and USA (eg BA's Open Skies).

flugvergnugen Jul 22, 2009 11:04 am


Originally Posted by gregmchicago (Post 12013860)
Long ago--shortly after the last Ice Age--AF operated MEX-HOU (Hobby - IAH didn't yet exist)-Paris (presumably ORY).

AF operated the route up until the introduction of the 744, which made the non-stop possible, so beginning of the 90's. I flew it a couple of times, between MEX and IAH (and on to CDG sometimes). At IAH they had a holding room for people en-route between CDG and MEX.

LH also flew MEX-DFW-FRA, with full 5th freedom rights MEX-DFW. KLM flew MEX-MCO-AMS (friends flew KL MCO-MEX in 1993, so the route existed until then at least). IB flew MEX-YMX-MAD.

tonywestsider Jul 22, 2009 9:17 pm


Originally Posted by alanh (Post 12101137)
Are there any that aren't stopovers on a longer route? For example, SQ 62 is actually SIN-DME-IAH. Is there any airline from country A that operates a flight that only stops on countries B and C?

Here's one: PA operated 737s between AMS and LHR. This essentially was a feeder service to their long haul flights to/from LHR. Pax could not use the AMS-LHR route with a stopover in LHR for more than 24 hrs. Pax were required to connect to a PA long haul flight the same day.

apoivre Oct 11, 2009 6:41 pm


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 12011237)
Here are the current 5th freedom routes in the OW timetable.

Code:

al fr  to  notes
LA PUJ MIA also flown by AA


It's actually LIM-PUJ-MIA and they have traffic rights between LIM and PUJ as well

Kiwi Flyer Oct 11, 2009 8:30 pm


Originally Posted by apoivre (Post 12603958)
It's actually LIM-PUJ-MIA and they have traffic rights between LIM and PUJ as well

In the lists I provided only the 5th freedom leg is shown. LIM-PUJ is not fifth freedom for LA.

Sagy Oct 11, 2009 9:17 pm


Originally Posted by tonywestsider (Post 12109216)
Here's one: PA operated 737s between AMS and LHR. This essentially was a feeder service to their long haul flights to/from LHR. Pax could not use the AMS-LHR route with a stopover in LHR for more than 24 hrs. Pax were required to connect to a PA long haul flight the same day.

Didn't PA have these type of flights from most of Eurupe/MiddleEeast to/from LHR?

I also seem to recall TW having feeder flights from most of Europe to/from CDG and some to FRA? IIRC I once took a flight on TW from FRA to VIE (might have been a code share, but I'm almost certain it was a TW plane).

apoivre Oct 12, 2009 5:27 am


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 12604548)
In the lists I provided only the 5th freedom leg is shown. LIM-PUJ is not fifth freedom for LA.

Yes, you are right. Mental note to self: think twice before posting at 5 am. Will this do to atone for my sins? Granted, if they have traffic rights between MEX and CUN...

hoto Aug 16, 2010 10:45 pm

Does anyone know of any updated lists for the three alliances?

Or perhaps know the method on how to generate it to share?

Looking for some Intra-Asia routes that are good value!

AerLingus Apr 9, 2012 8:26 am

5th Freedom routes
 
Hi I am sure this has been discussed before, but nice to have an update!

What 5th freedom flights can you think of?

I am booked on EK GIG-EZE in July

A few I can think of, and correct me if wrong -

EK GIG-EZE
AC EZE-SCL
CX YVR-JFK
9W NYC-BRU
BI LON-DXB
SQ MAN-MUC
AR AKL-SYD SOON TO BE DUMPED!
LA AKL-SYD
EK SIN-BNE
EK BKK-SYD
EK SYD-CHC
EK BNE-AKL
EK MEL-AKL

Of course there must be hundereds!! So please keep adding

Thanks

etch5895 Apr 9, 2012 9:24 am

KL BKK-TPE
AF EZE-SCL
Egyptair has at least one in Asia.
LH AUH-MCT
LX MCT-DXB


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