Tip for driver?
 

My friends are sending their car service (hired, not employee), to pick me up at LGA to take me to their home in CT. It will be about an hour's trip. What's the appropriate tip? I'm thinking $20, is that enough?

Stop the tip inflation!
 

You might want to have this moved to the Travelbuzz section to get more results. It is hardly a woman specific question. $20 seems hugely generous. That's probably more than the driver is paid per hour by his company. You would be more than doubling his salary. In addition, he might receive a tip from your friends, too. If all he has to do is pick you up at the baggage claim, take your luggage and put it in the trunk, then drive you to the destination for an hour, $5 should be good enough. There is no particular skill or hard labor involved in performing those duties. If you have somebody mow your lawn (a much harder job) you give them perhaps $20 an hour and no tip. This person earns probably already $20 an hour for an easier job. And you want to double that?

You could compromise and give $10 but $20 is just adding to the tip inflation.

The only exception I see is if he is a former elite armed services guy who actually performs some live saving security driving stunts while you are being attacked with RPGs. Let's hope this won't be the case.:D If it were the case, I'd tip $20. rotfl

On the other hand I'd make sure to thank your friends appropriately, although one could also have the position that it would be nicer to pick you up personally or the position that you should pay your own way.

Till

Uh, $20 isn't that much on a (presumably) $120 or so cab ride (depending on how far into CT, but that's pretty much a minimum for any half-decent car service).

But, be careful, a lot of NY car services include tip.

For me a tip is not primarily based on the cost of the service (which in this case includes quite a bit of gas, the usage and maintenance of the vehicle, administration cost, driver salary, cost of operating a business, plus profit margin) but on the type of service. It is an amount paid exactly to one individual providing a particular type of service. The fact that the driver is supposed to be punctual, courteous, helpful and -above all- a safe driver MUST be taken for granted and is thus included in the price of the service as a whole. Thus any tip is more of a symbolic nature and is more an act of goodwill than of a percentage based tipping scheme.

But I also find the US restaurant tipping scheme to be ridiculous, so my opinion is untypical. We've had the tipping discussion before and all possible arguments have been made. Non specific to women, by the way.

If Ginger feels like tipping generously instead of gingerly, she should do that. Personally, I find $20 borders the ridiculous, $5 borders the stingy or very reasonable or European (i.e. ME) and $10 might be in line with an American attitude.

I have tipped $20 for a person pushing me in a wheelchair at the airport. But that was 30 minutes of constant physical work for a woman pushing a man and dealing with his luggage. For a man to drive a woman in a motorized and comfortable vehicle shouldn't deserve this much of a tip just because it is a luxury product and environment. Otherwise, to keep the scale, we would have to tip the wheelchair woman $50-100. That would raise her salary far above the salary of a university professor with a Ph.D. in humanities (based on $80k/y at 45 weeks x 40hrs resulting in an hourly salary of $44). Besides the fact that university prof. is probably the more agreeable job overall, it is also the more demanding job in all regards but the physical one. And it delivers a higher value to society at large. Nobody ever tipped a professor, besides that even gifts of gratitude worth more than $20 are usually not allowed.

All this to say that $20 on top of the salary for performing the job he is paid to do anyway and that doesn't demand a whole lot of training or know-how seems like an awful lot. Plus, as the a priori question indicates, she doesn't even know, if he will at least do his job in a normal fashion, let alone a fashion that would command a tip doubling his salary.

Till

You're sorely mistaken in that there is no "American attitude" when it comes to tipping at New York. We were at 20% long before the rest of the country exceeded 15%.

We tip de rigeur at rates many would consider egregious. But it's what done.

Would you go to Japan and insist on your $10 tip?

I hope not.

So when you go to NY, you conform to NY's tipping customs. $20 is an appropriate tip for this ride. No less.

Excess doesn't need to be matched, just the habit itself. The basic tip is about 10% for driving/taxis - esp when there is limited personal service, e.g. lifting your luggage into the trunk, etc. The over-tipping you prescribe to definitely happens in many locales, NY among them, but that does not mean everyone needs to follow!! I'd guess you tip over and beyond many others on a regular basis, regardless if you're in NY or not. I know many NY'ers (and others) with a lot of money who do so. You can tip whatever you'd like but as I respect my funds a bit more than that, I'll stick closer to the standards used throughout the country.

I suggest the same for the OP - do what you're comfortable with, don't feel compelled. In truth - this is a tip, not a required charge and if in the end, you'd like to add $0, that is allowed, as well.

Yup, Ginger, it is, especially going from LGA into CT. Curious, how far into CT? Others might scowl but this indeed is the appropriate thing to do. Who knows, your friends might have already taken care of the tip.

I think $20.00 is appropriate.

Bobette

Please follow this in TravelBuzz.

l'etoile
Women Travelers moderator

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm always happy to tip (many years as a waitress in college), and stevenshev is right, norms differ, and NYC and LA are always higher than the rest of the country. If you're going to do something, do it right! That's what FT is all about ;)

^

I would do $20 also, unless the driver behaved poorly in some way. I usually tip taxi drivers 15%, but a minimum of $1. If this trip is about $120, then 15% would be $18 -- close enough.

I confess I don't understand this tipping thing at the best of times - Americans travelling all over the world leaving a little trail of money wherever they go. But I cannot understand why you would tip someone whose service was given to you by a third party. The third party, surely, should take care of any tips that are deemed necessary.

+1 and since my wife is American I am constantly pushed towards this 'culture'.

As a Brit i tend to follow the 10% rule for cabs/limo's, unless service has been really good. I now feel slightly embarrased after reading this thread, :)

Don't be embarassed and don't think its a norm ... there is a LOT of variety out there despite the pressure seen here for 20% and up.

As a Brit, I don't tip. People advertise a service and it's up to them how much they choose to charge for the service. If an employee feels he or she is not being properly remunerated, then he or she should take it up with the employer, not the customer.

Wirelessly posted (Palm TX: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D050; Blazer/4.3) 16;320x320)

This thread reminds me that NY is the tipping capital of the world.

I agree.

$20 is appropriate IMHO - but do check to see whether your friends have already tipped. We have been using the same car service in So.FL for 15 years and, when they changed their system in the computer, they started adding the tip if you requested same. When I travel I follow the norms of the country.

Your cultural insensitivity really is unbelievable.

I am sure they tip when they feel it is justified. I do, too.

But to make the tip an integral part of the service price thereby subsidizing the salary is a misguided system. It has nothing to do with cultural insensitivity. Just because you travel or live in a certain country doesn't mean you must adopt all the customs no matter how stupid they are and how much they go against your own believes.

As a matter of fact, many Americans tip in Europe as if they were in America, thereby spoiling European service personnel. It's just as insensitive culturally.

Till

The idea of working for an insufficient wage is something that makes me feel uncomfortable. It presses many wrong buttons - including slavery and begging.

I have travelled in countries where "tipping" is expected - notably Egypt. The fact that it is expected and seems to accompany poor service or unwanted favours makes it feel like theft. But I went along with it because in that society, not to give tips would have been tantamount to breach of contract. That's the kind of country it was, and those are the breaks.

In the developed world, I'd hope that people could see the strategic advantage of agreeing prices and wages beforehand. Those would be advantages for the customer, employee and proprietor. Basically everyone knows where they stand and successful transactions aren't tainted by feelings of having been conned or of having been patronized.

On edit - I should add that I can only sympathize with people who are caught up in living in such a society. They are damned if they tip and damned if they don't. It's easy to theorize but we all have to live in the world we find ourselves in.

Yes, I try to be culturally sensitive. But I suspect many people in the USA don't realize just how offensive the tipping culture appears to outsiders.

I do and I agree.

The emperor has no clothes (but this is disguised as lack of cultural sensitivity)

The tipping culture actually starts distorting the prices in an economy (like the one in my country) where we have a high influx of tourists. People that work in certain areas do expect and do get offended if you don't tip them, even though they can tell I could have been born in the same hospital they were.

I am more than happy to add some $ IF I WANT.

Take as an example once again my own country (Costa Rica) , the tip is mandatory so it always gets added to the bill (good service or not). Then I married my wonderful American wife who thought me that not leaving a tip in the US (EVEN IF the service was crappy) is some sort of 'declaration of war/don't ever come back to this restaurant...because I will remember how you tipped .......and then I will do 'x' to your food' :p statement

(I also dispise the notion of haggling, if I like the price I will pay it, I may ask for a discount but there is no way that I am going to start offers at 50% or lower of the tab as its customary in many places of the World)

all this tipping notion is somehow reminding me of the 'retention bonuses' in Wall Street, its (or was?) their culture

Does that mean in restaurants or just in bazaars?

I meant any sort of souvenir store,furniture store, etc where they intentionally have items with a huge markup in the 'understanding?' that the customer is going to bargain the price. sorry I wasn't specific.

On the same 'tipping culture' I was just reading this article

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/ma...ping-t.html?hp

1. No mention of how deep into Connecticut this trip is. The $120 fare is only an estimate made by a poster who knows no more than you nor I, only the OP knows the destination. In any case, you will find espeially in this economy and in non-prime time that reputable trips like this into CN can range from $65 to $500.

2. 20% in NY?? Forgetting something for really really great service or whatever, no New Yorker considers 20% to be standard, that is generally for carpertbaggers. New Yorkers generally double the sales tax and have been doing so for many years, so the average tip is currently slightly less than 17.5% give or tae a slight roundup. OTOH, New Yorkers more than people from other places in the US are apt to more often tip higher for great servce, but ALSO tip miserly for horrible service.

Also New Yorkers are more prone to think responsibly when they tip. What is the difference between a $300 meal for three served with a normal house wine, and a identical meal that costs $3300 because it was served with a bottle of Chateau Lafite? None, and most New Yorkers, will tip on the food amount and a token amount toward the wine (the work performed is EXACTLY the same, and should a restaurant worker make and extra $450-600 commission on your bottle of wine???)

3. Back to the actual subject. The vast majority of Livery Car services in the NYC metropolitan area traditionally do corporate work, and their rates are calculated to include a "tip" for the driver as the average Wall Street guy taking his late night car up to Greenwich for example gives a voucher or uses a code and NEVER EVER tips. Nor do the drivers expect one, as generally they make quite good money.

Most reputable Livery Car Services work on a system where the drivers are owner/operators of their own cars and keep +/- 85% of their receipts, kicking 10% or 15% back to the "fleet" they work with for boking services, etc. Even if the driver does NOT own his own car, he rents it on a shift basis, these guys do NOT work for a "wage" and other than their "rent" and gas costs pocket everything they make. Incidentally ALL NYC yellow cabs also work under the same principle. Depending on car/driver/deal/shift a 12 hour shift costs anywhere from $50-100 for Yellow Cabs per 12 hour shift. I do not now what it currently is for non-Medallion cars, but I would imagine that it would be similar.)

4. In short I would say that $5-10 would be okay, $20 ridiculous.

yea god forbid you throw a few extra bucks to someone performing a sh*t job. might spoil your day. how about you toss your tightwad beliefs aside and make someones day. too much to ask?:rolleyes:

I think I now know for sure why things are going downhill :D

Very sensible and enlightening posts here. I like it. By the way, I learned what a carpetbagger is; looked it up.

Interesting insights on the nature of how limousine and taxi businesses operate. That makes me think even more that $20 would be too much.

I totally agree with the Egypt example and would behave alike.

The bazaar example is a good one, too. It shows a mentality where prices are artificially hiked up and haggling is expected. I don't like it, either.

I also totally agree with the wine example and it supports what I said earlier about a tip being not an extra remuneration or part of the salary and not directly related to the final total product price. Somebody who pays an extra $500 just to have a bottle of wine opened must be totally out of their mind.

"yea god forbid you throw a few extra bucks to someone performing a sh*t job. might spoil your day. how about you toss your tightwad beliefs aside and make someones day. too much to ask?"

Yes, asked too much. See reasons above. In addition, we are not talking about charity here. When it comes to charity I am actually quite generous and when it comes to social infrastructure, I would gladly pay more taxes so that everybody can get access to healthcare and education (no more waiting tables while in college, being tired in class). But that's another subject.

Till

These posts are almost made by people in a profession that has benefited from the out of control tipping culture in the US and elsewhere.

Obviously this thread is now heading down the usual "tipping" pro/con discussion .... but really, why is it yours and anyone else's responsibility what type of work someone selects? Who is out there looking out for me if I don't like my job - no one but me.

If the driver/waitress, etc isn't happy with their chosen profession, find another one but don't put the onus on the customer and make it be their fault. Furthermore, why is it your business if someone chooses to spend those few extra dollars or not -- e.g. throwing any their cash or rewarding someone for service, however you want to look at it. It's their own personal decision. If the driver/waitress, etc is unhappy with the result, then they could look at their own performance to improve it the next time.

IMO, if people continue to blindly pay out regardless of service quality received, there is no incentive in the world to ever improve the declining levels of service that we all get to experience most everyday.

+1

The arguments advanced here are more interesting, though, than those we found in a recent thread on the subject.

I also have friends who worked in such an industry and they tip very generously even though they don't have a lot of money. I've talked about the subject with them. They see my arguments but still tip like that. I see their behavior but they are still my friends. :)

Till

Thanks to those who suggested that the tip may be included, not expected or taken care of by my friends. I will ask them. The destination is Greenwich, btw.

i see your points and respect them. i just dont understand why it is so hard to throw a few extra bucks someones way, and maybe make their day, no matter what they do for a living. i understand that not everyone can afford to throw money around. myself, my friends, and most of the people who travel for busness will not be put out one bit by an extra dollar or two. listening to people justify things because of anything else, except the fact that they are cheap, is laughable. i happen to be a big tipper. some people are not and that is their business and none of mine but to see people writing page after page trying to justify it is a joke. if you are cheap then you are cheap. just say it and dont hide behind a bunch of nonsense because deep down you are embarrassed...

LOL - re-read that, you respect NOTHING if you turn it into a calling someone who disagrees with you names. :rolleyes:

Oh and while I can only talk for myself -- no embarassment and not cheap - I buy what I want and pay the bill. I add what I feel is commensurate with what I think the delivered service deserved - it doesn't make me cheap. Personally, I think it makes me smart :) If you want to show off and spend all that money, go for it.

Oh, and don't assume anymore that people who travel for business have a bottomless expense account to go against. Times are tough out there in case you aren't aware of it.

We obviously don't have the same definition of nonsense.

Why would anyone so intelligent as to comprehend and apply the "fair tipping" arguments be embarrassed? Do you mean for not being wealthy?

Besides wealthy being relative, it is a well-known fact among those with old money that new money spends more conspicuously and has a tendency to overtip.

Till

i am not calling anyone names. cheap is cheap. very simple. you said yourself that times are tough. why not spread it around a little?

cheap is cheap, stupid is stupid and giving away/spending money like it grows on trees is the latter

why not spread it around a little? I want to ask that to Bill Gates he can SURELY give ME money (I mean giving me 5k USD is peanuts...if he doesn't do it he is cheap??) Better yet, Bill Gates feel free to make MY day ANYTIME :D

once again, I have NO problem whatsoever with paying for a service and rewarding quality, but this blackmailing as 'you are cheap if you dont give me x' doesn't do much convincing me about the tipping nonsense

btw they seem to be quite into the 'spreading it around a little bit' how about if you google "retention bonuses bailout" or something along those lines.

Also, see how far this sense of entitlement goes into the 'you are cheap' line, when someone performs a good service for me I normally RECOMMEND the person/establishment to OTHER people, I know that 'instant gratification' and 'me me now now' are deep ingrained .......but sometimes long term thinking is better

Simple name calling you mean.