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Originally Posted by MinetaFlyer
(Post 7217782)
that US Air where the cargo wasn't tied down and shifted rearward
Regarding the RADAR... RADAR shows precipitation, not turbulence. The RADAR image must be interpreted by the crew to determine where turbulence is likely. Depending on the conditions, very heavy rain can be a smooth ride. RADAR is most useful in avoiding convective activity but that's only one source of turbulence. The turboprops can easily climb over the typical low-altitude bumps from convective activity. Everybody, jets and turboprops, have to go around the large, convective build ups. The biggest difference is the wing loading. If you really want a good ride on a turbulent day, fly in a helicopter. Very high "wing" loading produces a much smoother ride in turbulence than an airplane. |
Originally Posted by LarryJ
(Post 7220467)
To which accident are you referring? That doesn't ring any bells.
Regarding the RADAR... RADAR shows precipitation, not turbulence. The RADAR image must be interpreted by the crew to determine where turbulence is likely. Depending on the conditions, very heavy rain can be a smooth ride. RADAR is most useful in avoiding convective activity but that's only one source of turbulence. The turboprops can easily climb over the typical low-altitude bumps from convective activity. Everybody, jets and turboprops, have to go around the large, convective build ups. The biggest difference is the wing loading. If you really want a good ride on a turbulent day, fly in a helicopter. Very high "wing" loading produces a much smoother ride in turbulence than an airplane. http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2004/AAR0401.htm http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2004/AAR0401.pdf 8 January 2003; US Airways Express (Air Midwest) Beech 1900; Charlotte, NC: The aircraft crashed into a maintenance hanger at the airport shortly after it departed for a flight to Greenville, SC. The NTSB determined that the loss of pitch control resulted from a combination of an incorrectly rigged elevator control system and by the airplane’s aft center of gravity being substantially aft of the certified limit. Both pilots and all 19 passengers were killed in the crash. |
Originally Posted by MinetaFlyer
(Post 7222976)
...it was a turboprop, not that that had anything to do with the cause of the accident....
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It's just a cultural thing, i.e. that Americans don't like propellers or airlines think Americans don't. There's also data that showed that when regional jets first came out, those flights saw a surge in demand, compared to turboprops.
Likewise, there is an American cultural aversion to manual transmissions and station wagons. |
Originally Posted by pred02
(Post 7219875)
Then how do you know what color on the radar corresponds to what and what is expected turbulence levels? I am not a pilot, but how the radar works was explained to me by a pilot.
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Originally Posted by dhuey
(Post 7223253)
That raises an interesting question -- what if the ground crew had made that same cargo error on a CRJ? Would a CRJ have more power to overcome the extra weight?
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Originally Posted by dhuey
(Post 7223253)
That raises an interesting question -- what if the ground crew had made that same cargo error on a CRJ? Would a CRJ have more power to overcome the extra weight?
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
(Post 7225448)
The accident airplane would have flown fine with the misloaded cargo if it's flight controls had been operating correctly. The problem was the misrigged elevator. The mis-rigged elevator did not cause an accident until the airplane flew well out of balance.
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A lack of power wasn't the problem. They didn't have enough control authority to keep the nose down in their too tail-heavy configuartion.
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I personally prefer the Dash-8 over something like a ERJ. Usually the turboprop is not full and I can spread out. The noise is something to contend with, but I don't mind. I like the short final on some turboprop routes as well, they make the trip interesting. With turbulence at low level (near take off and landing times) I prefer the turboprops as well, the regional jets seem to be so light that they get tossed around by the wind, I landed in a 15-20 kt crosswind in a Dash-8 and could barely tell.
Has anyone considered maintenance and aircraft life as a reason for U.S. airlines to not use turboprops as much? With the increased vibration you are effectively wearing parts down more quickly than you would with a jet. Oh, and I despise the MD-80 family of planes... They are old and it is time for an upgrade (I'm talking to you AA and DL). |
Does anyone else in their thread remember the late 1980s and early 1990s when the skys, and airports, were filled with turboprop regional airliners? Beech 99s, Metroliners, Jetstreams, Saab 340s, F27s, twin-otters, etc.? During the latter half of the 1990s the airlines transitioned to a mostly RJ fleet for their regional service due to customer dislike for the turboprops.
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
(Post 7233636)
Does anyone else in their thread remember the late 1980s and early 1990s when the skys, and airports, were filled with turboprop regional airliners? Beech 99s, Metroliners, Jetstreams, Saab 340s, F27s, twin-otters, etc.? During the latter half of the 1990s the airlines transitioned to a mostly RJ fleet for their regional service due to customer dislike for the turboprops.
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The RJs are "meant" to be tools with which to make a profit. Nothing more.
The RJs are more capable than the turbopropr that they replaced but, in the early 1990s, there were plenty of 1:30 to 2:00 Jetstream or Saab flights on turboprops. The only difference was that 2:00 in a Jetstream wasn't anywhere near as many miles traveled as 2:00 in an RJ. |
Originally Posted by LarryJ
(Post 7236427)
The RJs are "meant" to be tools with which to make a profit. Nothing more.
The RJs are more capable than the turbopropr that they replaced but, in the early 1990s, there were plenty of 1:30 to 2:00 Jetstream or Saab flights on turboprops. The only difference was that 2:00 in a Jetstream wasn't anywhere near as many miles traveled as 2:00 in an RJ. |
The purpose of the jet as set by whom?
Certainly not the manufacturer. They will be glad to show any prospective customer the multitude of applications of which their airplane is capable. |
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