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The airlines all use Timatic for this, and it's almost always unambiguous. In this case (assuming the travelers hold US citizenship), it says:
"Minors: up to/incl. 17 years old must hold their own passport, unless included in passport of parent(s) accompanying minor." US passports don't list children, so the exception above clearly wouldn't apply. I find it somewhat hard to believe that more than one AA agent would give bad information regarding the entry requirements for Costa Rica given how clearly the requirement is laid out. Are we sure that there wasn't some deception involved here?
Originally Posted by Pickles
I think the OP has obfuscated by his presentation style. I assume what he's saying here is that Costa Rica is "suing" AA for $10,000, which I mean to take that this is the fine Costa Rica imposes on airlines who transport people ineligible to enter the country. As for the photocopy, I assume this is the evidence Costa Rica will present to AA when sending the bill for the 10 large.
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Originally Posted by Pickles
From what I read, the OP also threatens "massive action" against AA, which may mean legal action, but who knows. If his arguments are as solid as he's let on so far, he better have Johnny Cochrane on his team for this one.
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I'm sorry if there has been any confusion with my original post, so I will try to clarify some things.
My family consists of me, my wife, and my three sons (17, 13, and 8). The only one without a passport was my eight year old son. Upon booking the vacation I was unclear whether he needed a passport, because when we flew to Mexico, a passport wasn't necessary, and I just wasn't sure what the requirements were. I called the airlines for the documentation information because I trusted them (which was obviously a mistake). After I was given the wrong information by an American Airlines reservationist (who again, I really had no reason to distrust), I called the Costa Rican tourism board about vaccinations, etc., and looking back on it, I definitely could've and should've asked about documentation requirements for minors (but again, I had no reason to clarify American Airline's information). This was the first mistake American Airlines made. The second mistake that American Airlines made was checking us in for an international flight in New York. As we were later told, the emplyees who check flyers in at Laguardia are told that all people, no matter what age, must possess passports. The employee who checked us in in New York disregarded this information, and checked us through with improper documentation. The fact that we were travelling internationally with improper documentation for entry into Costa Rica was labled as a "security breech" by both the emplyees in the airport in Liberia, and by American Airline's employees. Obviously, it was not a breech of security, but in another situation it may have been, and I suppose they consider all incidents equally. For this "security breech," American Airlines is being fined (not sued) by the Costa Rican government for $10,000 dollars. I absolutely agree that it was somewhat careless of me to not doublecheck information before travelling to Costa Rica, but when I am trusting and airline to fly me around the world, I trust that they will give me correct information. American Airline's policy is that customers must seek information themselves, which is what we should've been told initially. However, since we were given improper information, I saw no reason to doublecheck information (which again I probably should've done anyway). My problem with this entire situation is that we were flown to Costa Rica. If one employee made a mistake on the phone, then another employee should've corrected it by turning us away in New York, where we could've gotten home in fifty minutes and attempted to regroup without the stress of everything that actually took place. What I neglected to mention in my original post was that the accomodations given to us in Miami were awful (one room for five people infested with ants, and a lack of food in the hotel), American Airlines could not cover almost any of our expenses over the next few days we spent in Florida, and we had to incur over one thousand dollars attempting to resolve our situation within two days of being turned away from Costa Rica. Our original intention was to attempt to get my son a passport on Monday (via some twenty four hour passport service in Miami) and fly back to Liberia Monday or Tuesday. We later found out that American does not fly to Liberia on Tuesdays, costing us an extra day in Florida. I made an error by not rechecking information that was essential to the success of our vacation. However, American Airlines made several mistakes that have drained us financially and emotionally. Additionally, American Airline's has handled the situation poorly since our first contact with customer service, and there has been a delay in any response or resolution. As we are told daily that a resolution will be coming later that day or the next day, this creates a problem for me. In my opinion (and obviously I am biased), my errors were far less in extremity than American Airline's. We are looking for financial restitution for airfare, differences in the rate at the hotel between December and February (the rates are about $2000 higher), and coverage of any expenses we had to incur in Florida. Although I'd like American Airlines to cover any expense that this vacation will cause us, it seems very unlikely to me. I am seeking any kinds of advice towards dealing with American Airlines before they come to a decision of our resolution, and potentially after the decision, if it is unsatisfactory. I am looking to not take legal action, but if I must, then I do not have a problem doing so. This is the most obvious choice to me, so I am looking for some alternatives. I apologize if I have been unclear in my previous posts, and I hope that I am understood now. If anyone has anymore questions about the situation please feel free to ask, and please feel free to have me clarify anything else. |
I think that the point raised by miguel0881 is a very important one. The entry requirements for Costa Rica changed during the month of October - and given the fact that the OP asked for information from AA during the same month, it's entirely possible that the (now inaccurate) information given to the OP by AA was, indeed, true and correct at the time that the information was given.
Otherwise, I don't know what I can personally add to this thread that hasn't been addressed by other posters here. Mike |
I believe you are trying to get the answer YOU want, but it's pretty clear you won't get it here.
It's your responsibility to have the right documentation for any international travel. PERIOD! How you choose to get that information is up to you, but a call to or web check with the destination country consulate is usually the way to do it if you are not sure. AA LGA agent did mess up by issuing BP for your kid, and s/he will pay with a reprimend or possible job loss as AA will have to pay a fine to CR, and I'm sure they are not happy about it, but that has nothing to do with you. Just face the reality and move on. You messed up, not partially, not somewhat, but ALL THE WAY! |
I'm not sure I get what the problem is. We have:
A. OP screwed up by not getting proper documentation for their child. (bad) B. AA screwed up by allowing OP & family to board the aircraft. (worse) C. AA is fined $10,000 by Costa Rica for allowing OP & family onto aircraft. D. OP somehow ends up in Florida trying to get a 24 hour passport and try again (I don't know how they got AA to send them to Miami... I would figure they would be transported back to LGA). E. OP is threatening legal action against AA These are the facts we have. I can't figure out what legal damages OP is seeking to collect. Surely AA can't be expected to pay them for something that was their own mistake. As long as AA refunds or re-issues their full tickets for a later date, it would seem that they have fulfilled their obligations. |
Do they get to keep the miles? :D
Couldn't help myself here... This is a FT site. :) |
Originally Posted by zresnik
In my opinion (and obviously I am biased), my errors were far less in extremity than American Airline's. We are looking for financial restitution for airfare, differences in the rate at the hotel between December and February (the rates are about $2000 higher), and coverage of any expenses we had to incur in Florida. Although I'd like American Airlines to cover any expense that this vacation will cause us, it seems very unlikely to me.
On the other hand, if you asked to be sent back to MIA to take you chances, then your case is weaker. You are probably only entitled to some kind of refund on your airfare plus maybe something extra for your troubles. |
Originally Posted by Pickles
Why did AA fly you back to Miami, and not to LGA?
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Originally Posted by zresnik
In my opinion (and obviously I am biased), my errors were far less in extremity than American Airline's.
Every airline worldwide that I have dealt with clearly indemnifies themselves via the contract of carriage against responsibility for the pax having valid entry documents for the destination. Yes, the airline is responsible to the authorities at destinaton, but the airline has no responsibility to the passenger beyond notifying them that it is the customers responsibility to ensure documentation is in order. Finally, just to add some clarification to your narrative, the current statutory fine that Costa Rica administers on the airline for inadmissable passengers is CRC 495,000 (approx USD 996) and not the USD 10000 that you claim they are fining AA. |
The fine is 10,000USD. This has been made clear by American Airlines executives several times.
We flew back to Miami because that's the only place that American flies to from Liberia. I'm trying to get some feedback on how to take action now, and I keep being told that I am the one who made the biggest error before we left. While it was a mistake, we were royally screwed by American Airlines, and if anyone was in the same position we were, flying an unecessary six hours with almost two and a half in between, to be denied a long awaited vacation, flown back another three hours to Miami where the flight did not taxi into a gate until an hour after arrival, had to go through customs and immigrations for another two hours when we were never officially in another country, lost a bag with most of my eight year old's clothes, and then have to incur a large amount of money not expected to be spent, I think everyone might agree that American Airlines screwed up. I didn't doublecheck information that the airline gave me, again leaving me no reaosn to distrust them. If we were turned away in New York, none of this would've happened. However, the airline is being fined for the error in New York, and every American Airlines employee has been shocked that we were flown to Costa Rica, and they claim they have never seen anything like it. My eight year old feels responsible for our ruined vacation. The trip, which was intended for my thirteen year old son's bar-mitzvah, is ruined. The rest of my family is devastated. While none of this has to do with me neglecting to recheck information I had already been given, it would never have reached this level of intensity of American Airlines did not fly us to Costa Rica. This was the "cardinal" mistake. If turned away in New York, none of the stress, emotions, or finances would've been wasted away. American Airlines definitley owes us something, and I'm sorry if people disagree with this. I am looking for someone who agrees, or even disagrees, with me to tell me how to go about resolving this situation. I don't want anyone else telling me what should've been done, because I'm aware that I should've been more responsible about planning my vacation. That mistake hardly matches up to both mistakes American Airline's made, and the long lasting effects that have come about because of it. |
It seems rather odd that your 13 and 17 year old sons have passports, but you did not get one for your 8 year old.
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Just admit you screwed up your family's trip instead of blaming some airline.
And, try using some common sense when dealing with them from now on. You may or may not get something out of it. |
Originally Posted by zresnik
I am looking for someone who agrees, or even disagrees, with me to tell me how to go about resolving this situation. I don't want anyone else telling me what should've been done, because I'm aware that I should've been more responsible about planning my vacation. That mistake hardly matches up to both mistakes American Airline's made, and the long lasting effects that have come about because of it.
-Looks like the Consular Information Sheet was actually updated to reflect the passport requirement in OCTOBER 2004, and not 2005. Indeed, further investigation reveals on the web site of the US Embassy in San Jose (http://sanjose.usembassy.gov/consfaq1.html#needppt) that: "As of November 18, 2003, the Government of Costa Rica no longer permits foreign visitors (American citizens, among others), to enter the country without a valid passport." Perhaps AA got the message REALLY late, but this seems bizarre. Still, can you really expect an airline to have the same resources as the Dept. of State? No. Indeed, entry requirements change with some regularity (especially in Latin America!), although you should certainly include the mis-information you received from AA to bolster your "sympathy appeal" to the airline. What probably happened is that you spoke with an agent who THOUGHT she knew the entry requirements off the top of her head (which, for many years, required nothing more than birth certificates for US citizens to enter Costa Rica) and quoted you that information instead of checking the system. -Was your hotel in CR non-refundable? What was the cancellation policy? If it was non-refundable or required 24+ hours notice, then you couldn't have cancelled had AA informed you of the passport requirement at LGA on your day of travel. So you really can't expect this compensation. -What lengths did you go to while on the ground in Costa Rica? Obviously, you were in Liberia and not San Jose, but a little begging, pleading, and perhaps greasing of the palm ("no hay ninguna manera en que podemos resolver esta situacion," wink, wink) can often go a long way, especially in light of the fact that all other pax had passports, it was your 8 year old who was without, and the requirement USED to be a birth certificate. Did you ask to speak to the Immigration supervisor? Did you phone the duty officer at the US Embassy in San Jose (the same site reads: "The Consular Section is committed to helping U.S. citizens in emergencies. If you are concerned about the welfare of an American citizen, please call the American Citizen Services Unit at (506) 519-2000 Ext. 2452 during business hours. After 4:30 pm and on weekends or holidays, please call the emergency number at (506) 220-3127. The Marine Guard will then pass the matter on to a duty officer"). Perhaps you could have promised the immigration inspectors in Liberia that you would travel to San Jose THE NEXT DAY by road or by air to secure an emergency passport for the child and report back within 24 hours. This is sometimes permitted under similar extenuating circumstances. If you tried these things and they still ordered you removed, then you certainly suffered an inordinate degree of hardship, and this might also bolster your "sympathy appeal" to AA. -Why did you end up in Miami? Couldn't you make a connection back to LGA? Clearly you could get a 24-hour passport in NY as easily as in FL. Was it your choice to remain in MIA or did AA simply say they wouldn't transport you any further? If it was your choice, then I don't think you can really expect AA to reimburse you for hotel/other expenses while there. If it was AA's choice, then maybe. -In any event, I think it IS REASONABLE to request either a refund of the airfare paid or new tickets to Liberia given that AA boarded you without proper documentation. Had they instead heeded the new requirements and realized the mistake at LGA, you could have presumably changed your tickets to a later travel date after paying the applicable fees. So this IS REASONABLE. (It seems to me what happened here is that the agent only quickly checked the stack of passports you handed her, and perhaps didn't even realize that your 8 year old, who may not reach the counter, was in your group. Still, this is inexcusable!). I think you have a good claim on the airfare part, but NOT on the hotels or other expenses. It's a really unfortunate situation, and I hope you FINALLY get to enjoy Central America! |
Thank you very much for that last post, I appreciate the advice.
First of all, the law did go into effect in 2003, not in 2005 as you've been saying, and this has been confirmed by American Airlines several times. I don't know if you'ev ever been to Liberia, but it is a VERY small airport. From what I could see, there were only five or six employees working there, and no airline representatives. Trust me, we pleaded TREMENDOUSLY, enough so that they had us surrounded by police. The language barrier also added to the problem. I coninued to ask different people if ANY measures could be taken to make an excuse, and the answer was repeatedly, no. I finally demanded someone lend me a cell phone to call the US Embassy, American Airlines, the hotel, and rental car. The cell phone did not work, so I bought a phone card and had a very bad connection to most places I called. The only feedback I got back in Liberia was from the US Embassy, and they said there was nothing they could do. Liberia is VERY small, and there is only that one American Airlines flight a day, so they were trying to rush us back onto the same plane we had arrived on only forty minutes after. Try to imagine that at this point my two younger sons were starvivng and devastated, and my wife was incapable of doing anything because of her devastation. As I was on the phone, my seventeen year old son pleaded with several different employees at the airport, but no one gave in. It was him who realized that if we didn't get on the next and only flight back home that day, that we would've been stranded in hypothetical "limbo" that night. As far as a supervisor at Liberia, we were told that he was off that day. Our experience in Liberia, Costa Rica was rushed, and we did not have anytime to think anything through other than being flown back to Miami. The people in Costa Rica would only fly us back to Miami, because that's the only place American Airlines flew. We figured that we could try to work the situation out better in Miami, and if we were able to resolve something in the next two days, we would be in Miami to fly back to Costa Rica, rather than flying back home and connecting again. My thirteen year old son and seventeen year old son had passports because they're grandparents took them to London when they turned thirteen. My eight year old has never been out of the country, nor have we have travelled outside the country as a family. This was the first time we had ever taken an international vacation, and I decided to go about it the way I did (obvioudly, indufficiently). The hotel only charged us one night at the hotel, which they are considering refunding us. The reason we booked in early December was to get discounted rates before they went up. In February, when we are rebooked, the rates are 2000 dollars higher, and I think it is reasonable that American Airlines covers this. Finally, the employee who checked us in at Laguardia was well aware of my eight year old. In fact, she took our four passports, and then his birth certificate, and relayed to us that it would soon be law for him to have a passport. I think they then had some other cute exchange, but I honestly don't remember, it was 4:30AM. Ultimately, American Airlines gave us the impression twice that a birth certificate would suffice to enter Costa Rica. It was our first family vacation out of the country, and I had NO reason to disbelieve an airline who gave me information, rather than telling me to seek it myself. I think it is absolutely reasonable to ask the airline to cover our airfare, AT LEAST the difference in the rates at the hotel, and any expenses that we had to incur in Florida while waiting for them to get back to us (also, we got back to Miami on a Saturday night, and NOTHING was open Sunday, so we were instructed by American Airlines to wait until Monday). I believe all of these requests are reasonable. Any other advice and postive or constructive feedback is apprecaited, and I will post when American Airlines resolves our situation. |
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