Help me complain
 

WARNING- THIS IS A LONG STORY, but I appreciate help and advice from anyone w/ time to read it.

I am trying to get satisfaction from United on the following issue, but I'm not getting anywhere....pls help me complain and get something.

On Mon, Aug. 16, I was scheduled on United flight 5391 from IAD to RDU, departing at 6:50 am. When I arrived at the airport, the security line was wrapped around the inside of the main terminal from the checkpoint across the front of all the ticketing stations (I do this route once a week- usually wait in Security about 10 min max). After waiting in line for about 35 minutes, I asked a United representative who was in the area if I could be expedited thru security since my aircraft was currently boarding ( I know they do this- sometimes without asking). The person whose name I did not get, looked at my boarding pass and insisted that I had "plenty of time". Until I got through Security and rode the shuttle to my concourse, it was at least another 20 minutes. I got off the shuttle, ran to my gate and found the doors closed. There, I was informed by yet another United rep that the "flight was gone" Since it was 11 minutes prior to the scheduled departure, I was more than a bit surprised. I was informed by this agent that the "flight closes 9 minutes prior to the scheduled departure". When I pointed out that it was 11 minutes prior to departure, he looked confused for a moment, then simply said "well, the flight is closed, you'll have to rebook".

At Customer service, they then informed me that they could only put me on "stand-by" for the next flight, but that it was oversold and my chances of getting on were slim. I was offered a confirmed seat on a flight leaving 4 hours later, however I was due to fly back 3 hours after that flight would have gotten me into Raleigh. I would miss 3 of the meetings that I was traveling in order to attend. My ticket was non-refundable and had a $100 charge for changes + fare diff.

When I contacted United Customer service on Tues, Aug 17, I first spoke with a rep named Dave. He had a very thick accent and was difficult to understand. He interrupted me several times, claimed that United was not responsible for Security delays, that missing my flight was my own fault and refused to take any responsibility for United's errors or offer any compensation. When I asked to speak with a supervisor, he asked why. I informed him that I wanted to speak with someone who I could better understand and who had the authority to compensate me for me inconvenience and rebook my non-refundable ticket without penalty. He then said, "Let me switch to my AMERICAN ACCENT for you." "Is that better? You won't like my boss either, he's foreign too." Needless to say, I was stunned. I immediately asked for the supervisor.

After at least 10 minutes, the supervisor, Herman, picked up the phone. I went through the whole story again and highlighted the failure of the rep in the main terminal as well as the gate agent. I didn't even initially mention the rude treatment I received from the first customer service rep. He stated again that United was not responsible and offered nothing. After several minutes of back and forth, he offered a $50 travel certificate....hardly reasonable compensation. Initially, I was only seeking the ability to rebook without a $100 fee. When he said that he would offer nothing more, I asked to speak to someone above him. He refused. I then mentioned the rude accusations thrown my way by the first rep. Although he said he would "speak to him about that later", when I asked for an apology, he said "at United, we don't apologize for other employees". He also insisted that there was no one else I could talk to.

I have since spoken with others at United and haven't gotten much farther. I guess that the fact that I am a Mileage Plus Premier member doesn't matter. I would think that given United's current financial state as well as the competition they are facing from Independence Air, specifically on the Dulles./Raleigh route, that they would be a bit more willing to assist customers and compensate them adequately for failures of United personnel. I guess not. The fact is, I always drive all the way out to Dulles, despite the fact that National Airport is 10 minutes from my home and American has almost hourly flights to Raleigh, specifically to fly United.

Then, just this weekend, I was set to leave on Sun night, once again to RDU.....we left 45 minutes late and they opened the doors to the closed flight TWICE to let people on who were running late- once 20 min after our scheduled departure time and the second over 30 minutes after our scheduled departure time. Also, there were 2 more flights that night that they could have taken- neither were full.

I think I should be compensated. What should I say/do to get satisfaction? I want to rebook my ticket for a different flight- at no cost to me. Thanks.

Welcome to Flyertalk. The general mantra is that one should arrive at the airport two hours prior to departure, even if one expects the security line to not be long. Should you feel you have further complaints with United, I suggest writing rather then calling. Also, a further tip. Should you receive information from a phone agent that doesn't sit well with you, don't ever ask for a sup. Hang up and call again. Good luck and let us know what you end up receiving.

aloha

It's not clear to me exactly what time you showed up to check in for this flight. How early did you show up?

Tough luck
 

I would say "tough luck". Next time, show up earlier.

It sounds to me like you got in line only an hour before flight time (35 minutes, then another 20 minutes, then the 11 minutes).

You were cutting it way too close. I really don't see how any of this was the fault of the airline. I personally hate it when they take somebody behind me in line who didn't show up with enough time and move them ahead of me. If you want to get through security earlier, then show up earlier, don't expect people to let you cut the line.

My wife hates it when I enforce the two hour rule (she's always an hour late to everything), but it has saved us several times when the "normally 10 minute" security line is backed out the doors with people about to wet themselves because their flights are closing. If I'm early, I get plenty of time to check out FT in the terminal.

And welcome to FT ^

Isn't it sad that no one wants to take responsibility for their own neglegent behavior.

Get to the airport 2 hours in advance and you won't have any problems. In the meantime, STOP complaining and trying to blame others for your own laziness.

Let's at least try to be civil, shall we?

I don't believe IAD has an elite security line and, even if they did, I don't think Premiers can use it.

So yes, the OP should have arrived 90-120 minutes ahead, even if the OP expected it to be light. Incidents happen that can cause large back-ups.

Thankfully at SEA, I can use the Elite line so I never have to arrive more then 60 minutes ahead, no matter how bad the line is. But at an airport where I either know they don't have one, or don't know if they do or who can use it (maybe First Class only, or 1K only), I always make sure I get there at least 90-120 minutes ahead of schedule.

One Other Thing
 

This sums it up IMO although I would add: stop expecting compensation for something that is not reasonably the responsibility of the airline or security! I believe you became accustomed to a short wade time through security and therefore assumed it would be the same on this tightly scheduled day for you, too. However, a short wade time through Security or holding a flight for a late arrival is not guaranteed so you bear the responsibility for not allowing a reasonable cushion for delay. Regarding the customer service experiences you described, I also agree with the OP that it's wiser to hang up and call back than to continue engaging in an already tense conversation.

Take the $50 airfare certificate and go somewhere nice for a weekend to forget about this whole ordeal. Welcome to FT. :p

Assumptions Can Be A Bummer in the Fog,

mrspilot

I rarely fly UA, so I don't know their policy. I have been late to flights from the DC airports, including BWI, and Continental folks get me on a subsequent flight without charge, as long as I arrive within a couple of hours after when I was originally supposed to fly out. It seems like the UA people were trying to do that for you.

I'm surprised about how the CSRs treated you considering your status. I missed a flight to Shannon once, and the Continental rep accommodated me extremely well by getting me to the nearest destination asap.

I read the other posts and would have to pretty much agree that there is probably not much more to do.

In any event, you just reminded me that I need to leave even earlier!

You're just rude
 

Fine....so I only got to the airport an hour ahead of time....if that's when airlines want people to get there, then they should say that. In fact, United's website says specifically- 60 minutes prior to departure if you are not checking baggage. I do fly quite a bit and have never had a problem.

Second, if they had not closed the door 2 minutes prior to when their procedures instruct them to close the door, then I would have made it on time. The fact is, they closed the door early and now they are refusing to accept responsibility for that error.

I'm sorry that I can't always get to the airport 2 hours in advance....first of all, I'm already getting up at 4 am to make it there when I do. Second, I work 70-80 hours a week, I can't spend a whole lot of time sitting around an airport. I'd like to know how that qualifies as lazy...how many hours a week do you work or do you just spend all your time on this site being obnoxious?

Oh, brother. Welcome to Flyertalk, Renee (frozen smile, gritted teeth).

If you really do fly out of IAD a lot, then you know the morning outbound rush creates security backups and the mobile lounge ride makes things worse. 90 minutes is the absolute minimum a thoughtful flyer should allow at that hour, and I'd sure try for two hours. 3:15 am alarm, 4:00 am alarm, what's the difference? ;)

Here in SEA I always get to the head of security 90 minutes before a pre-9:00 am flight leaves. Sometimes I zip through, sometimes I wait for an hour, but the point is, it's my problem.

If UA compensated every passenger who missed a plane because they didn't get themselves to the airport on time and got hung up in security, they'd be out of business. There's no way UA is responsible. They don't run the security lines; they can't go hire more screeners.

With great respect: I believe no compensation is due. The $50 voucher they offered you is a nice, unrequired gesture.

And with only two posts so far on Flyertalk, which is a civil and generous place, please reconsider calling other community members "obnoxious," etc. Thanks! And set the alarm earlier next time!

I'm going to disagree with everyone here.

Clearly, more time would have been a good idea. And UA has no responsibility to get you thru security quickly. But that said...

I'd take a good long look at UA's contract of carriage and other policies from their website. If their policy says checked-in passengers need to be at the gate/on board 10 minutes before departure, and you were there 11 before, then you have a valid complaint. There was a similar complaint on the AA forum a few weeks ago, and posters there were lining up to support the poster.

I'd send a written complaint to UA with the appropriate part of the contract of carriage to UA, and request the standard compensation for "Involuntarily Denied Boarding". Don't focus on the rudeness. You can mention your status, but don't focus on it, elites have the same timetable as everyone else. Stick to the fact that you met their requirements, but were not able to bet on your flight.

Of course, you may have difficulty proving what time you arroved at the gate, for example, they may suggest that your watch was a couple of minutes off. Not sure what to do then.

But that's the letter I'd write. Good luck, and next time, leave a bit earlier.

Actually, United's website has a page specifically for IAD here. It says the average wait time at security between 6am and 8 am is 45-60 minutes. Combine that with the people mover and the construction and you really need to budget more time.

By the way, their website also says "Please note that reservations are subject to cancellation if you are not checked in and available for boarding at the gate at least 20 minutes prior to departure between U.S. cities." I suspect you already saw that, as it's on the same page that states the arrival 60 minutes prior to departure.

I can sympathize with your dread of the early morning but I don't understand how you can blame the airline. There's nobody on this BB (or anywhere else for that matter) who hates getting up early or waiting around an airport more than I. But my chosen profession requires travel, frequently at obnoxiously early hours of the day. So.... I reserve the right to grumble and moan a bit, then I get up early and wait around the airport as needed.

Two minutes early by your watch or theirs? If I had several important business meetings to attend I'd hate to think that making the flight depended upon my timepiece being synchronized with the GA's clock.


And how is this UA's fault? You should either schedule a later flight or set the alarm earlier. The choice is yours.


How much time did you sit around the airport waiting for your re-scheduled flight?

I would agree with most everyone's sentiment except for the fact that OP was at the gate within the timeframe published by United. If it was 9min before flight time, I'd agree - you snooze, you lose (literally). But it was before the cutoff and the flight was closed. Rules are there for a reason - they didn't follow them.

I don't have suggestions, though. You are at their mercy and they don't look like they are going to help. They're broke - I wouldn't expect much.

This gal wants us all to say, "Poor baby. You missed your flight. How can we make it up to you? Would a trip to free Paris help soften your injury? Venice? Cairo? Or, maybe we should just make exceptions to security for those who don't allow time in their busy schedules for standing in line like the rest of humanity."

Gotta go with the vast majority here -------- UA owes you nothing.

Renee, you made a mistake, didn't get to the airport ontime and tried to cut it close. Hey, we all work hard (you only have to work 70-80 hours a week? can we change jobs?) but I always make sure to get to the airport ontime and with plenty to spare, just in case there is a slow security line, etc. I usually bring work with me so I can complete those tasks while I wait for boarding.

Time to suck it up Renee, admit your error in not giving yourself enough time, take a lesson-learned, and move on. It's just not worth getting that worked up about. Far more important things happening in life.

Well, I think there is no fighting the point about getting to the airport earlier. I know how it feels getting up so early and runing into a few snags that makes you miss your flight. I think alot of us have been there. ;)

However, I don't think UA should have charged you for catching another flight later in the day and I am not sure I'd agree with letting a rude agent on the UA reservation or CS get away with it...foreign or not. I think one should do everything one can to make sure rudeness isn't part of UA's culture.

I don't think you should expect compensation for missing that flight but if you can prove somehow you got to the gate earlier than closing time and document the rude agent(s), you should get something for that. If you already have the $50 voucher, just leave it be.

You know what they say " If you are looking for sympathy it's in the dictionary between Sh** and Syphillis". Seriously, I undersatnd your frustration but this is one area where the airlines aren't accountable. If the security line is too long, it's too bad. Personally, I get torqued when people try to get ahead by saying " my flight is leaving". Well, duh, that's why we are all in this line. The days of granny going to meet junior at the gate are gone. Everyone in line is catching a plane. Sometimes you can't help but cut it close but it really isn't anyone else's fault.

And, in addition to what everyone else has said, you might well be pleased that UA doesn't examine too carefully the combination of your non-refundable ticket and your statement that "I was due to fly back 3 hours after that [later] flight would have gotten me into Raleigh." Now that might all be perfectly legitimate, or it might perhaps be some back-to-back ticketing that some airlines don't like at all.

Besides, as Oceanbound222 suggests, it does sound like the OP is interested in our answers to his/her questions only if we're in total agreement with his/her (very shaky) position.

I don't think this is what the OP wants us to say at all. She was simply seeking some constructive advice, and I think most folks have provided that - allow ample time to get through security and to your gate. I also think that, while the OP doesn't specifically say this, she's wondering how to address the rudeness of the customer service agents at United.

So, my thought are as follows - the OP has only herself to blame for missing the flight, but United agents owed her a bit more graciousness and, based on her description of the phone calls, they went out of bounds with some of their comments. Thus, if UAL is still willing to give a $50 travel voucher, I'd take it and call it a day.

As an aside, I'm surprised by the general lack of civility in this thread.

I agree that the original question was benign and well-intended. But "be careful what you ask for," huh? She asked for opinions and she got them. But when people started saying she (the OP) should have arrived earlier, the immediate response was that she knows what she's doing, she's too busy, she has better things to do than waste time being "obnoxious" on this board (as apparently some of us are?). That's not exactly a way to make a good first impression on a new group of people or endear yourselves to them.

I think some people on this board "attacked" first so she got defensive. Yes I do think the majority on this board was a little rude.

I agree that the OP got defensive and didn't make a great first impression. My comment about civility was borne out of some of the posts from FTers who've been around the block a few times. Regardless of whether the OP was defensive, several of our colleagues needlessly went on the attack with editorial comments. Wasn't it sufficient to tell the OP that she left for the airport too late and that UA wasn't the reason she missed her flight?

I agree that people saying "tough luck" and calling her lazy was over-the-top and not a nice (nor necessary) way to respond to someone (especially a newbie) who simply asked for opinions and advice. But she later posts "you're being rude" and uses the word "obnoxious" to describe some here. I can assume that she means the people who were harsh in their wording and not everyone who responded, especially those who welcomed her to FT and offered some nice advice, but it's hard to know for sure since their help went unacknowledged. I think the response simply imflammed things more, that's all.

But back to the subject at hand, I don't have much more to offer than what has already been said other than to say to Renee: welcome to FT, which *is* a great place to be and where you get lots of advice that is, for the most part, VERY blunt. Sometimes that's bad, but often it's very good. ;) Also, I wanted to say that maybe this would be a good topic for the United forum since it deals with that airline specifically and regular posters there may be able to offer more insights. Renee, I don't know if one of the moderators here will decide to move your post there, but if so, keep in mind it's just routine (happens often) and a way to help. This site is run very efficiently because the volunteer moderators try to keep things organized.

Smart guy that I am, pre-9/11 days, leaving from DCA to MCI on the last US Air flight of the night. I had a couple of hours. Fully checked in, I put my bags in a locker (you could still do that then), caught the metro back into town to have a little dinner, caught it back, retrieved my bags, and walked back to the gate exactly on time. 10 minutes to departure.

"Where's the airplane?"

"I'm sorry sir, are you Mr. Delta Hog?"

"Yes."

"We were all checked in and the aircraft has departed. We paged you several times with no response."

"But it's just now 10 minutes before the departure time."

"Everyone was on board, sir, and we paged you with no response."


:(


I considered that to be my fault and did not request compensation.

I'm sorry that I can't always get to the airport 2 hours in advance....

Based on how you've demonstrated on this board that you turn rude, sarcastic, and angry when things don't go just your way and people aren't agreeing with you, I have a hard time believing your account of UA phone customer service being short with you for no reason at all.

ITA, especially when the OP threw in the part about getting someone she "could better understand" instead just asking for someone who had more authority. First of all, that was just unnecessary and inflammatory since there was a more pertinent reason and second of all, I seriously doubt that's exactly the way she put it at the time.

BTW, The UA link does say to check-in 20 minutes before departure. What is this 9 minute thing about?

Your SOL
 

You should have gotten their earlier plain and simple, I'm IAD based, and know that b/c something is light one day or ten straight days.. (i.e.. ten straight tuesdays) that anything can happen with TSA. Also if youre meetings were that important, cutting your check in that close was one heck of a big risk.. I'd understand it if it was absolutely necessary to be on that flight but if it was.. you better believe i'd be there earlier..

Working 70-80 hours a week.. (violin playing in the background) who doesn't.. we all work on here.. long hours.. so that doesn't drive any sympathy.. plus 70-80 hours a week doesn't explain why youcouldn't get up an hour earlier.. unless you are working the graveyard shift

Sorry.. you blew it.. as we all do sometimes.. I don't think UA owes you a thing now after hearing the facts

But what about them closing the door early? If they hadn't done that, the OP would've still made the flight.

I would have to say, though, that I have been on a lot of flights where they closed the door early and pushed back early. But I just sort of assumed that they already had all the pax with reservations accounted for and on board.

Perhaps this was a wrong assumption on my part, though.

Per the CofC, the passenger must be at the gate 20 minutes before departure, or their reservation is subject to cancellation. After they've boarded everyone who showed up before T-20 minutes, the plane can leave early.

Thanks for clarifying that, I truly did not know this and did wonder about it.

pdhenry is correct. United requires pax to be "checked in and available for boarding at the gate at least 20 minutes prior to departure between U.S. cities" in addition to to "10 minutes on-board/close the door" rule.

I recind my earlier comment. OP has no leg to stand on.

Well, in the grand scheme of things, there are days where you get to the airport late and security lines are light or flights are sufficiently delayed in your favour, and other days when the flight is on time, and you do not have sufficient time to make the flight--it all balances out eventually. While I could fuss and complain about those few instances where I have been denied boarding, I've learned the hard way that if I'm travelling to a crucial meeting, I always leave a "cushion" of time (normally 1/2 a day) between my arrival and the meeting so that unforseen circumstances won't ruin the day. I will say that United has been more than accomodating to me to get me onto another later flight, and that is all that they are required to do. Gone are the days when you can get to an airport with only 30 minutes to make the flight (and I was most notorious for that!!!) ;)

One time I was late driving to LAN, missed the flight, got put on a later flight, that flight was delayed, and ultimately they put me on American to arrive at the final destination at midnight, no change fee, I was just grateful to get there. Then just recently, after an exhausting week of work in HKG and China, I was staying at the airport hotel and slept in until 1/2 hour before the flight was scheduled to depart, by the time I ran to the checkin counter, it was too late, and this was the last flight out to the mainland from HKG for that day. $100 change fee, and they put me on the next day's flight. Oh well, I checked back into the hotel, then had the most wonderful afternoon/evening in HKG, had a good night's rest, and arrived at the gate the next day with plenty of time! I realized that I really needed the break and was grateful for my fate that day!

If life is too busy to fret over a $100 change fee or missed meetings because you arrived at the airport on a very tight timeframe, then maybe you need a reality check! On some of my flights, I have to leave my house at 2 or 3 am, and I do work very long weeks being self-employed, sometimes 100+ hours a week! Sorry if the crowd here is not sympathetic, most of us have been there, done that (sometimes still arrive late to the airport), but we all know that we only have ourselves to blame, and pray that the airline gods smile in our favour! :p

surprised at the tone of this thread
 

A few thoughts/comments, which I preface with the information that I don't fly out of the DC area and that I usually fly on American.

1. In NYC, I once had a 6:50 am international flight. I got to the airport at 4:30, just to sit around until the agent arrived and opened the counter at 6:00am. The flight was cancelled and I was rebooked on another carrier, which left from a different terminal 20 minutes later. Needless to say, I missed the flight, which clearly could have been avoided if the counter had opened earlier. Are agents available at OP's airport before 6am? If not, I don't see how you can blame her for getting there at 6:00.

2. I don't understand -- once OP checked in (at electronic kiosk or wherever) for her flight, how can United leave without her? Did they page her? Did she have luggage? I thought it was a big no-no to let luggage fly without its passengers. Once you check in, isn't there a period of time they wait while you get through security?

3. There is no excuse for rude customer service. Maybe OP exaggerated in her description, maybe she didn't. As a bunch, FT'ers seem to expect good customer service, why attack her for wanting the same?

Finally, I have to be honest. I thought that the initial responses were way out of proportion to how OP asked her question. This thread seemed to escalate into some nasty comments pretty quickly (by both veteran posters and some fellow newbies), and that surprises me. FT'ers are usually a bit kinder. (although I do remember one of my early threads where I asked what would be appropriate compensation for my bags being lost for 8 days and some people told me I was a whiner and should be glad that they showed up at all...). Maybe everybody on this thread who's working 80 hours a week should only post when they're not sleep deprived, as words have a way of sounding ruder in email than perhaps they would out loud.

They close the door, start the aircraft engine and taxi away.

Probably (in the immediate lounge area).

That used to be the case but almost every U.S. airport has checked bag screening equipment now and positive bag matching is no longer required. Anyway you don't know whether she had baggage or not.

Yes, they wait until 20 minutes before the flight's scheduled departure time.

There is also no excuse for a rude customer.

Why would this be back to back ticketing? I just went to United.com and created a same day itinerary for Sept 6 and it's fare class S and non-refundable:

Total Airfare (including taxes and charges): USD 160.71
Penalty: NONREF/CHANGE100PLUSFAREDIF/ / CXL BY FLT DATE OR NOVALUE


The only thing I'd add is if the OP hates getting up so early, fly the night before and then you are assured of being in RDU for an early morning meeting.

Recently I posted a similar type of complaint to OP's on another FT forum concerning a situation I still feel I was in the right about. I was called a whiner and an idiot and a loser of sorts. To be honest, I found the namecalling insulting and it bothered me. What is it about FT that makes people feel they have the right to pile on, once someone makes the first critical remark? I know this is opinion based media but doesn't the OP have a right to express her side of a situation without being called names? I did a search of some of the most offensive namecallers and found they all had their own pet issues that they protested loudly about at times. People in general were respectful to them. What gives them the right to call someone else a whiner?

1st amendment and Randy's TOC's. Not to say it's proper, but they have the right to stay stupid things just like everyone else.