Fingerprinting question
 

Hello, this is my first post, even though I have been an avid reader for years.

Currently, I am an exchange scholar at a US academic institution and my whole family want to visit me early in January. One thing that Americans may not pay too much attention to is that INS (BCIS?) starts taking fingerprints and photos of foreign visitors on January 5th. Since my family plan to come before January 5th and leave after this date, I am wondering if they are still subject to fingerprinting etc. on their way out. I think I have seen somewhere that it is voluntary on the way out.

This is important for me since they will probably choose not to come if all those procedures are mandatory, because this trip is not essential and they don't want to go through the hassle.

Thank you very much for reading.

Don

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/lat...19968,00.html?

If I have to be fingerprinted.....I will NOT be visiting the US again. This is not only crazy but a gross invasion of my privacy...

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kpc

ForeignScholar thanks for highlighting this, I wasn't aware that I would be fingerprinted soon on arrival in the US. Like kpc I can now see me not travelling to the US unless required to do so for work! I'm sorry I can't help with your question.

There really isn't any immigration check as you are leaving the united states, you show your passport a couple of times and off you go, you never actually stop at an immigration booth like in other countries.

I wouldn't call it a hassle, you run your finger over a sensor, smile pretty, and off you go.

I can think of many Americans being considerably less sanguine about this requirement being imposed by any other country.

Personally, though, I think this is more of a practical issue - delays in immigration queues which are already far too slow and inefficient - than one of privacy. The US and many other countries already record every time you come in and out. Why should a fingerprint confirmation matter?

I am sorry that so many of you object to being fingerprinted. If Her Majesty's Servants wanted to fingerprint me, I sure wouldn't let that stop me from visiting London!

A questionaire regarding your sexual practices would be an example of an invasion of privacy - fingerpriting and a picture to enter a country where you are not a citizen seems rather reasonable.

It actually gets worse. One of the proposed US-VISIT enhancements for January 2004 is mandatory "checkout" procedures at 10 major airports to be determined. The burden of scheduling these procedures will be on the traveler.

Similar to the NSEERS system, this means that the traveler has to actually schedule an appointment with the immigration authorities to "record" their departure from the United States and undergo an exit interview. During the exit interview, you will be required to provide proof of your activity in the United States. Failure to do this will result in a 10 year ban on future entry.

Unlike most countries with departure control though, the burden is on the traveler to get themselves recorded rather than the other way around. YOU have to call ahead to schedule the appointment.

[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited Nov 14, 2003).]

I assume this only effects travelers requiring a visa ? I.e Visa Waiver travellers will not be subject to this restriction ?

I too am worried about the added delay this whole fingerprinting and picture taking will cause. Hope they recruit additional people to handle these added procedures, or at least open enough counters to handle more people.

Correct. VWP travelers will not be subject to either fingerprinting at POE, nor to the mandatory exit interview UNLESS they meet any of the following conditions (quoted from DHS memo on the issue).

* The nonimmigrant alien was born in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Bahrain, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates or Yemen - regardless of their current citizenship.

* The nonimmigrant alien has made trips to Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Syria, North Korea, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt, Somalia, Pakistan, Indonesia or Malaysia - regardless of their current citizenship.

* The nonimmigrant alien has engaged in other travel, not well explained by the alien's job or other legitimate circumstances.

* The nonimmigrant alien's behavior, demeanor or answers provide information that causes the immigration officer to reasonably determine that the individual requires monitoring in the interest of national security.

They've probably had to do that because they are shockingly bad at collecting departure cards from passports. Why don't they just ban all *nasty* foreigners altogether?

B747-437B do you know if this will apply to NVWP travellers on transit as well?

For those saying "it's just a fingerprint" what's the response to this now? And incidently my response to that is, the only time I can be fingerprinted in my own country is if I am charged with committing a crime. If I am not guilty, then the records are deleted. Why should I have to undergo this when all I want to do is visit another country? So I decide not to do it, or to minimise it as much as possible, because that is the only option I have to protest against such a draconian and useless measure.

Thank you all for the information. I think I will probably not have them here.

Too bad I will have to miss a month of family time. For the US, it is about $5,000 that they are willing to spend, but I guess it is not that much.

Since my own country collects all of her citizens' fingerprints when they reach a certain age, it makes me wonder why not do it one more time. I think what bothers them (and me) is that the US is not particularly better than any other country to keep the private data on guard and it is kind of uncomfortable for a foreign entity (from my perspective) to have my biometric data.
Maybe it would have been different if the US enforces this fingerprinting rule on everyone including its own citizens.

America used to be the beacon of liberty and my country has been stricken with wars, tyrannies, all sorts of invasion of civil rights. I feel truly regrettable that I am even comparing them here and to see them converge (with a little bit of exaggeration).

Whoa! So, because of the lovely big stamps in my passport from Pakistan and Malaysia, and despite being from a country in the VWP, I'll have to schedule an exit interview every time I want to leave the US?

The inclusion of Indonesia is going to include half of Australia in this too...

Ooh, that's going to hurt.

B747-437B:
Holy cow - what is this!?! I know, you are always well informed.
Could you please post a link regarding this "exit interview". I could not find anything on the internet ... many of my friends/customers are from foreign countries... I may have to change my UserName soon! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif
Thanks, USAFAN

I am really not trying to start a flame war here, but since you asked what the response is now, I'll answer.

The only time I can be fingerprinted in my own country is when I am charged with a crime.

I don't see the relevance. When I am in my own country (USA) I don't have to carry a photo ID. When I was a foreign resident of Indonesia, I had to carry a copy of my passport and my KITAS at all times. So what? I don't have the same rights as a foreign national as I do in the country where I have citizenship. Should I have told the Jakarta Police to "bugger off" that I'm an American and I "have rights"?

Why should I have to undergo this when all I want to do is visit another country?

Because America is at war?

So I decide not to do it...

Fair enough. All other things being equal, I'd rather not pay bribes to corrupt immigration officials, get shaken down by corrupt police officers, and fear for my safety being an obvious foreign national in Indonesia. Still though, I'm not going to let that stop me. My original sentiment applies, I am sorry to hear that it's going to stop you.

Your FT friend,
-eastwest

Just thought I'd come back and add

Welcome aboard ForeignScholar! It's nice that you've been a reader for a long time but it's better that you're now a poster. Don't be shy! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Your FT friend,
-eastwest

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"east, west, over the ocean,
perpetual motion,
traveling around..."