Experiences getting Russian visa
 

I just applied for a Russian visa.

I am less than 45 years old so I had to fill out the additional form.

I was also surprised on the 'invitations' that were required.

Why do they make is so hard?

Has anyone ever been denied?

Are you referring to a tourist or work visa? BTW - US requires 'invitations' for Russians to get a visa as well, so it goes both ways.

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Sharon

Because the old Soviet mentality is still there!... I have avoided visiting Russia mainly because it is so difficult (i.e., such a hassle) to get the Russian visa and deal with the old Soviet bureaucracy. Fortunately, Ukraine dropped the invitation requirement, and it was fairly straight forward (though still not effortless) to get a Ukrainian visa last June (for a US citizen).

I am also curious as to people's experiences in getting a Russian visa.

The Russian visa form for Americans is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL to the US Visa application form that Russians have to submit.

Yes, but there are GOOD reasons for having a long application for a US visa while not really for a Russian versa. (For instance, what is the likelihood of an American staying illegally in Russia versus vice versa? Also, Russia is much more likely to derive economic benefits from Amreican tourists than vice versa.) Besides, such "inequality" in visa rules exits with regard to other countries as well (e.g., Israel, Czech Republic), so I still think a bit of Soviet mentality is behind the Russian visa rules.

No hassles at all when I got mine, though that was before you had to give up your passport to get it (all you needed then was a copy of the main page). The only thing was it took about twice as long as they said it would.

Fill out the forms, send that, three pictures, the copy of the passport (which I believe is now the passport), the invitation, and the money, and five weeks later the visas came.

My friend got a Russian tourist (ordinary) visa without any hassles, it took about 10 days to arrive.
Russian citizens are asked the same questions when filling out forms for the US visas as US citizens filling out forms for Russian visas (aka "additinal security questionnaire")

By the way, visas are not ONLY there to prevent "economic" immigration (as eri231 refers to in his/her post), visa regulations are there to REGULATE the entry and stay in any country, let it be Russia, US, UK, Sri-Lanka, Israel, Taiwan, you name it. These controls are there for the governments to have a clear understanding of purpose of visits, background of visitors, intentions of visitor's actions while in the country, etc. It does have to do with security, health and labor issues, not just "who wants to eneter the country and make a buck illegally."

By the way, process for getting a Russian visa is not at all cumbersome (if it is a tourist visa). You need an invitation (can be a telex from a hotel, takes 10 minutes to transmit, just make a reservation at the hotel, have them transmit the invitation by telex or fax to the nearesr Russian Consulate, and voila, you are ready to apply).

Happy Travels!

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-02-2003).]

While I agree with you that there are many non-economic reasons for issuing visas, I would strongly disagree that the process for getting a Russian tourist visa is "not at all cumbersome." The fact that one must know his itinerary in advance, in particular at which hotels he will be staying each day of the trip AND make those hotel bookings AND include confirmations of those bookings with the application, is already way too cumbersome. Compare that to backpacking through Europe or making spur-of-the-moment travel plans. (This is all assuming US citizenship of course.)

Alex

Regarding the "invitations" thing it just makes much more readily understood by the consular officials.

Getting a business visa to enter Australia, although there is no requirement for one I got the company we were visiting in Brisbane to fax an invitation over anyway. I gave them the words. On taking the application in, in person, the consular official leafed through the paperwork, came across it, and said "ah, that makes things easy".

So it seems that a bit of something on a proper letterhead they recognise from their home country helps them.

Alex,

True, compared to going to Europe for a backpacking vacation, Russian entry system is proving to be more difficult to deal with. However, I am sure you will agree with me that one cannot compare a country that has been so isolated behind the Iron curtain for many years and European NATO allies in terms of the ease of traveling there for an American citizen. All things considered, it could be much worse, and by the way, if you are a European citizen (that is a citizen of the EU), you can enter Russia for up to three days without a visa at all (provided you are entering the country through one of the three border points of entry: Vyborg (by land from Finland), Moscow (by air at SVO terminal 2), and St Petersburg (Pulkovo Airport LED). These regulations have been in place for about a half year now, however only a month ago it became more of a streamline process.

As I mentioned before, Russia is not a place you can just go on the spur of the moment (if you are a US citizen), but how many Americans would go to Russia without having their hotels accomodations and itenerary preplanned far in advance?

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Have you ever tried to fill up a DS-158? Some of the questions they ask there are ridiculous.

And my pet peeve is the DS-157 box 9 where they ask you to list every country you have visited in the last 10 years, but don't allow you to attach an extra sheet. Yes, I know the form says you are SUPPOSED to be allowed an extra sheet, but they tend to give you a new form to fill from scratch and tell you to "write smaller".

Plus, various posts have documentary requirements more obscure than anything the Russians can throw at you. Ever had to dig up your mother's original birth certificate??? How about a copy of your brother's tax returns from 2 years ago??? No matter if you haven't spoken to him in 2 decades. And lets not even go into the inhuman treatment while waiting to meet a consular officer (is it really neccessary to take everyone's belt, tie and shoelaces away???). Plus, the fees are ridiculous (for a single entry US transit visa at the consulate in BOM, you will pay over US$200 including all fees).

For an American to criticize any other countries' visa regimes as excessive and/or unneccessary is truly the pot calling the kettle black.

B747-437B,

I totally agree! Although I did not have to go through this insanity since I am a EU citizen as well (visa waiver for travel to the US), and now I have a green card, I have seen this way too many times happening to my friends, and by the way, the INS also requires one to carry all these ridiculous documents with you when you travel to the US, just in case a power-hungry INS officer with a GED in hand may be having a bad day and wants to harass you (citizenship doesn't matter, happened to Icelandic, Ukrainian and German friends of mine). So, virtually every visitor to the US that required a visa to enter the country has to carry a thick folder with all the possible documents on earth, trying to prove something).

Putting things in perspective, Russian visa is a breeze.

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-02-2003).]

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-02-2003).]

You have to be kidding!!!! To compare the the requirements, is like comparing apples and oranges. As stated before, and without knowing the actual statistics, I would guess, and I'm almost sure it's a very conservative guess, 1/2 of ALL legal entries into US stay beyond the visa deadline. In the 60s, 70s and 80s most of the legal"illegals" came from eastern Europe, with some from Africa, Asia, and Carribean. US had no choice but to crack down on so called "tourists" that became illegal immigrants, thus the requirenments. I don't think that Russia, China, or few other countries have the same problem, at least not with Americans. So please spare me the 'we are just doing what you are doing' lecture. There is a significant difference!!!

And if your "statistics" is correct, and "at least 1/2" of all the visitor to the US stay beyond the dates stated in their visas, then why are these checks even being conducted? Are they useful? I think they would be useful if, according to "statistics", much fewer than 50% of the vistors would overstay their visas... something is of misconnect here, dont you think?

The original question was why is it so hard to get a Russian visa. The answers varied from "not that hard" to "complicated". I think the issue of "overstaying" on visa dates have little to do with procedures. The procedures are there to PREVENT these "overstays", afterall.

And yes, THEY ARE doing what US is doing, this is what countries do to protect their interests, even though sometimes it seems silly to some.

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-02-2003).]

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-02-2003).]

If you read my post, you would have noticed I said in the past, and that's why US Immigration service requires any national outside of the so called "westernized" countries to prove their real intentions when visiting here. I did not bring up the comparison, it was B747, and I just wanted to make sure that whoever reads this thread understands the real reasons why US has such requirenments, but I still don't understand why Russia and or China needs this as I'm willing to bet that most if not all Americans will leave these countries as soon as their tour/vacation is done. In Russia's case it is a left-over from the "good old days" of socialist paradise. For the sake of improving their tourism, I hope they drop this stupidity very soon. If they want to make money of the tourists, that's fine, do what some African, Carribean nations do, just charge $50-100 per visa, and stamp the passport at the point of entry.

WHAT???

The actual number of legal entrants to the US who become illegal long-term residents is actually closer to 1/205. That is less that 0.5%.

(Source : Statistical Yearbook of the Immigration and Naturalization Service).

[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 05-02-2003).]

Yes, now it is, why don't you look up stats from the 70s, and 80s?

Regardless, even with the new stats, why don't you look up how many Americans overstay their visa in Russia or China these days. How many Americans do you see on the nightly news, locked in some cage at the bottom of a merchant ship trying to get to China , Russia? How many Americans do you see on the nightly news sitting on some dinghy trying to escape and get to Cuba, Haiti? How many Americans do you see getting caught in luggage or the cargo part of the plane, trying to escape from USA?
Again, all I'm saying is this. When it's justified I don't have a problem with it, but when it's done for no reason, and as a matter of fact hurts their tourism business, WHY DO IT???

Inbound tourism to the USA in 2002 was down 16.6% over 2000 numbers based on preliminary stats.

That same figure is almost 40% for tourists from countries whose citizens require advance visas.

Conversely, inbound tourism to both Russia and China INCREASED in 2002. Care to reassess your statements again?

At the risk of giving you a benefit of the doubt and not calling you a moron, (hopefully FT won't punish me for this), I believe that US economy could withstand a little drop in tourism if it helps in the overall picture. Don't forget, some 'visitors' did not see our way of life the right way on that famous day in September, so if what this country has to do to stop this kind of terror involves checking every body that wants to come in, and as a consequence locks some real tourists out, so be it. I don't think Russia is there just yet, and ESPECIALLY when dealing with Americans. I just don't see too many of us overstaying our visits, and/or hijacking planes to destroy their cities. AGAIN, let me repeat myself, I'm only talking about American tourists going to Russia, not anybody else, and if you don't see the stupidity behind their visa requirements for Americans, than as they say....

One thing that's worth saying...

Russia is difficult in many ways, but it is very much worth the effort. It is a wonderful country full of charm and intrigue. Sure it's a logistical pain, but that also makes it memorable and unusual. I've been three times and loved every minute of it. The biggest surprise to me was how beautiful much of Moscow is. The monuments all over the place (first man in space, Victory Park are my favorites) and the 'seven sisters' are really breathtaking.

Good luck with your visa and have fun. Enjoy some inexpensive caviar while you're there.

I forgot - whatever you do, don't skip the moscow circus. I only went because someone recommended it highly, but it was great. It's like cirque du soleil (with better stunts and shabier costumes) at about 5% of the cost.

I agree totally. After all I was born and lived my early years in Poland, and one of the few places we were allowed to visit during the socialist paradise years was Soviet Union. Been to most major cities. Allow me to add another beautiful feature of Russia, or Poland or any other eastern European country, the beautiful Slavic women. Every time I go back I fall in love every 5 minutes http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif, but that's another story for another day!!!

Fully agree. I lived in Russia for a long time and it's a very beatiful country, especially Moscow.

Oh, some of the people I knew in 1995-6 had to spend days at an embassy trying to get a visa to enter US, then weeks ( and sometimes months) waiting for an answer. Very frequently they were declined without a reason being given.

[This message has been edited by yevlesh2 (edited 05-02-2003).]

andrzej,

i dont think the issue here is people trying to get to Russia "in boats" (I assume FOX News on Cuban immirgants to the US give you any thoughts?), in Italy we have a lot of immigrants from Albania and Poland (surprise!) trying to stay in the country (lets wait for what will happen after EU expands), yet Italian immigration laws are not any stricter than any other "westernized" nation (as you would put it). By the way, off topic, the only time I was pickpocketed in Italy (my own country, mind you), was by Polish guy...my father notice him trying to steal something from my backpack, so he stopped him, yet it was not a reason for us to raise this issue in Parliament ("Don't Let Poles Get Into Italy!"), it was just an isolated incident.
When you talk about what was happening in 70's or 80's, why dont you dig that non-existant statistics yourself, it seems that you know a great deal about "statistics", I personally don't believe such statistics exists, as it was poorely tracked due to certain political interests at the time. Yet, I do agree with you in regard to 70's and 80's, when Russia was a part of Soviet Union with all the "pleasantriesw" derived from it, many people did stay in the States permamnently, can you blame them? I do believe, however, the situation has changed dramatically, and if you have made you way to Russia recently, you may know that not every Russian just dreams about moving to the States...this is the kind of perception that FOX News and the likes gives the American public (I won't even go there!)

Russia tries to protect and control its borders by issuing visas to foreigners, including American citizens. You are implying that Americans should be exempt from this because they live in a rich country? I hope you realize that this is very irrelevant to what a country (let it be Russia, Poland, Ukraine, UK, US, whatever) wants to do in relation to controlling its borders, its citizens health, its national security and the whatever else they may find applicable?
US stands nowhere compared to, for instance, Iceland, when it comes to the standard of living, yet it seems like Icelandic people don't seem to see a problem in having to apply for a Russian visa when they come to Moscow (having many Icelandic friend and lived there for an extended period of time, I can attest). And so forth... Your beliefs that Americans should be given a visa free entry just based on the fact that they are Americans are exactly the ideals of the cold war and wishful thinking.

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-03-2003).]

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-03-2003).]

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 05-03-2003).]

I had an excellent reason to do a 48 hr transit thru Vladivostok next month, namely, a free three days on the cruise ship Residensea from there to Japan, and after looking at all the visa requirements, I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

The invitation was just one hindrance, and not the greatest one at that. Fortunately, I am old enough that I didn't have to get a letter establishing that I don't have any obligation for military service. It was unclear what it would take to meet the health insurance requirement. And maybe I could have gotten a transit visa a little more easily, but the Russian embassy web page didn't explain that one in detail at all.

Why do the Russians charge you more the faster you want to get the visa? Lots more, way out of proportion to the costs, like $300. I might need my passport on short notice and don't like the notion that I should "legally bribe" the consulate to do their job in a timely manner.

No matter whether the rules are reciprocal or not, the end result is that I won't be spending any discretionary travel money in Vladivostok next month. I've got to believe that tourism spending from dropping visa requirements would flow more TO Russia than OUT of Russia.

Issuing visas to foreigners is all about controlling, protecting your borders. Whether you want to believe it or not, the US is still a big dream, hope, to millions of poor people all over the world. If tomorrow US opened it's borders, millions of Russians, Poles, Asians, Africans, etc... would be getting on planes, trains, automobiles to get here. So, this like many other "richer" countries protects itself by controlling the influx of immigrants with visas requirements. At the same time, countries were the populace is pretty well off and don't have a need to escape their country for political or financial reasons keep their borders open to each other, because it does not create any problems as in Western Europe, and North America. I will say this again, there is no need for Russia to fear Americans looking for jobs, trying to stay, etc... while they are there, so there is no need for all the beauracratic bull, and as I said before, if they want to "tax" the tourists, that's fine, charge whatever the market will bear, and issue a visitor visa on the spot. Unfortunately it can't be the same in reverse, at least not yet. I know that not all Russians have a desire to leave their motherland, but millions would do it on the spot, if given a chance, and many of them would love to come to US or to one of the many countries of western Europe, and that's a fact. Ask yourself a simple question, why Americans or for that matter western Europeans are allowed to travel to just about any country in the world at any time? because when we travel, we come, look around, $pend, and once we're done, leave.

Wife and I went last year to Petersburg and Moscow. Booked one hotel for the full time. Got an invitation. Got the visa through the VA visa getter for $75 or so. No hassles whatsoever. Must have been pre mail in Passport time. How does one travel to other countries when the passport is unavailable?

Changed the hotel reservations, including spending a night on the overnight train Petersburg-Moscow.

Had a wonderful time, cannot get back this year, but will next year.

The US entry and immigration procedures (for whatever misguided or justified reason, be it a moronic belief that everybody wants to move to the US, jingoistic xenophobia, or just plain mean-spiritness) are some of the most onerous in the world. Not even North Korea is that much of a PITA (and I've been there, folks). Other countries play a game of tit-for-tat with the US, be it through painful procedures of their own, or charging the same "fees" US charges people for visas and entry documents.

I see no reason for other countries to behave any other way. Why should they allow the US to throw its tantrum, without (admittedly) petty retribution? If people in the US don't want such treatment of their citizens when traveling abroad, they should not treat their counterparties in that country the way they do.

And even then, some countries (such as Mexico, where there is no visa requirement for US citizens, but there is a visa requirement for Mexicans entering the US) just grin and bear it, for whatever monetary or diplomatic reasons.

You could call it anything you want, but it's a simple fact, that US is still seen as hope to many millions from poorer countries and in some instances even from other "richer" countries. Go to any consulate in the third world country and compare the lines for visa applications at the US vs other consulates. I'm willing to boldly predict which line would be longest, hell, I'm willing to bet the house on it.


Most other countries do not play tit-for tat

No argument there, I said it through all my posts that it basically becomes a 'tourist tax', and that's fine.


It's not just some, it's most, not because of some political pressure, simply because as you said, for monetary reasons. They love our tourists and the money they bring, and they don't fear any of us staying, beyond the tour/vacation time, which is what this whole thread is about. There is no reason for Russia to require that of any western national, and maybe more people would visit the culturally and historically beautiful country more often.



[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 05-03-2003).]

So, I essentially agree wtih the comments made by andrzej -- thanks for making the arguments for me. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif I think it's simply stupid for Russia to require visas for Western tourists; this policy hurts the country more than it helps. Other countires realize that it benefits them more not to have a visa requirement (or a simple visa procedure) for US tourists (e.g., Israel, Czech Republic, Mexico) even though the US has a visa requirement for their own citizens... As I said, yet another stupid remnant of Soviet backwardness in Russian policies.

Or maybe because Russia has enough pride not to prostrate, and/or prostitute, itself to Mammon.

FWIW, a friend flies his Russian wife through Germany to Canada because U.S. transit procedures are a hassle so it swngs both ways.

To get away from opinions and back to facts and the subject of this thread...

Have your hotel issue an invitation and go to the Russian embassy in person if you can and the whole process is fast and easy.

I had a booking with Sheraton so they faxed me the invitation and forms I needed. I took a taxi over to the Russian Embassy (in London), stood in line for maybe 15 minutes and dropped off my forms. I was told to come back the next day and pick up my passport. Very easy! I had to pay a little for overnight service, but it was worth it.

Well said, terenz! My sentiments exactly!

Well, too much pride I think! And whom is this pride benefiting? The Russian people? I think not.

There is some realistic, logical thinking around here after all http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 05-03-2003).]

The Russian consulate in New York has a page on its website with a list of travel agencies it works with (I don't know to what extent). I had some problems getting all the documents together for a Russian visa until I approached one of these agencies. They made it very, very easy, although at a hefty price.

The original point is that I assume Russia wants people to come and spend money there and I assume that most foreigners do not want to stay in Russia.

If that is true then Russia should make the process of visiting as easy as possible (i.e. no Visa).

The decison for any country to have visa requirements per country should be made by balancing the need / will for tourists and the chances that someone will stay to live in the country.

Clearly different counties have different real answers to that balance.

The immigration/customs people and procedures are the first sight that a foreigner gets of a country and invariably invite conclusions however well or ill founded.

Perhaps Russia puts on a bad face and if so that unfortunate. America, and all the moreso on my last routing through the place, puts on a such a face that is regretable.

Two hours standing in line is an insult. The forced cancellation of my sidetrip to see the (cracked) Liberty Bell was a metaphor of the time and place.

If paranoia with respect to everyone else is to be your rule, then it is with parnoia that everyone else will receive you.

Everyone is coming to exploit and/or harm you, well you are going to exploit and/or harm them, whether with dollars or guns. A fine world that . . . . Respect as much as contempt is a two way street.

Oh yeah, like France does not require most of the 3rd world countries nationals and even some European countries nationals getting visas, yet, they are free to travel to the same countries without.
Give me a break.....



[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 05-10-2003).]