On Tipping
 

As a frequent business and pleasure traveler in today's sea of financially struggling travel-related businesses, I've recently been made much more concious of the reason for proper tipping in my travels. It began when I woke up September 11, 2001 on Kauai, and then witnessed 40 percent of Hawaii's hotel service employees being laid off within four days of the attack.

Quite obviously, many of the front-line service people we all depend on daily are still on hard financial times. On checking out of a hotel the other day, I tipped a cheerful and attentive bellman/doorman $10. His eyes literally teared up, and he struggled to say "God bless you" in a voice choked with emotion. And this was at the Renaissance Beverly Hills right off Rodeo Drive!

Just remembering to leave $2-$3 per day for your hotel maid makes such a difference in the life of someone struggling and working hard to achieve the American dream. At the Sacramento Hyatt this week, my housekeeper wrote me thank you notes every day for the modest tips I left (something I NEVER used to do).

My only purpose is to remind others, as I had to be reminded, that these people are dependent on tips for their humble existences. Hotel maids, bellhops, car valets, room service delivery people, and airport skyhops are just some of the people I used to be hit-and-miss in my attention to properly tipping. Not any more.

Happy travels,

Brian



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Brian

If they react that strongly, clearly they are neither used to nor dependent upon that magnitude of tip.

QL

Quietlion, if the guy had tears in his eyes, the odds are that he's not used to it and does need it.

Jay Leno, after 9/11, did a free charity event in Las Vegas because so many of the workers that depended on tips to augment their minimum wage salaries were in dire straits due to the lack of travelers.

I hired a cleaning lady for a day in Dec (post-surgery so I couldn't do any cleaning myself) & she made more money working for me for a day than she did as a housekeeper at a major upscale hotel chain, so it was worth it to her to take a day off. Says something about today's society doesn't it (but let's not hijack the thread & get onto that; that would be an omni discussion & I don't go there).

I do know that all the major luxury hotels in Santa Monica banded together to try & defeat the hired help from unionizing and/or getting paid more than the current minimum wage. These are hotels, btw, whose minimum room rate is $275.

If you can't afford to give one or don't think the cleaners, bellman, etc, deserve a tip, then don't give one. If you can or think your $1-2 can help, then go ahead & give. It's a personal choice.
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Sharon

[This message has been edited by SkiAdcock (edited 05-18-2003).]

Maybe "dependant" is not the right word. However at the wages most of the jobs pay, I'm quite sure the tips play a part in these workers quality of life.

Tip what you will. It's your decision to do so or not.

But, as I see it, QL is raising the point that Brian is stopping just short of implying that there's an obligation to tip (and even over-tip) irrespective of whether there's a mutually beneficial exchange.

Sure, the economy is tough, but that's not relevant to the reasons for tipping. If I get above-and-beyond room service from housekeeping, then that may warrant an additional recognition of that service; otherwise, to suggest that I should tip for reasons other than services rendered is to suggest that there's an imperative to tip to rectify economic ripples due to nothing that niether I nor the tipee had anything to do with.

If that's Brian's proposition, then I'd have to think that that's pretty twisted reasoning. But I'm inclined to conclude that that's _not_ what Brian is suggesting.

[This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 05-18-2003).]

I'm against expanding the current custom of tipping; indeed, if I could find a way to eliminate it without hurting anyone I would be all for it.

I see no reason to focus my charitable contributions on those in the service industry. However, I think it reprehensible that hotels would band together to prevent low-paid workers from unionizing.

QL

Tipping is a custom -- not a mandatory form of wealth or income redistribution -- and tipping is practiced less worldwide than in years past. In fact, the US is one of the holdouts to practice this rather old custom.

Everyone except bartenders and waiters in the US is required by law to be paid a legal wage. If not, that is a serious crime that is a matter between the local DA's office and the employer.

Bartenders and waiters alone receive a sub-minimum wage. Because of that fact, I support the custom of the 15% tip on food service and a customary drinks tip to the bar ($1 per drink is customary in New England).

Above and beyond that, the tipping situation quickly spins out of control.

If you receive special personal service from someone regardless of job code, by all means you are welcome to tip. In fact, anyone is free to tip anyone, or to give money to anyone on the street for example. But it is not a US tradition nor a historical fact nor a worldly requisite to hand out money except as per custom.

But this implies a right to compensation, rather than basing compensation based on ability. And that's just not a proposition that can be defended.

I sure am glad I don't have to rely on tips from some of those here.

How about 20% for good service? Certainly a FREQUENT FLYER can afford that. And while hypothesizing about what is the perfect pay scheme is worthy, these low paid people need to pay some bills.

Tip 20% for good service, less for less. And do tip the housekeepers.

Yikes. I am a waiter at a luxury hotel. I make well over the 15% that most people consider a correct tip. It's my craft and I am good at it. (I don't mean that as ego.) I understand that some here mean that my compensation is based on my ability. Of course that is why I do make more than the server at the next table. My ability.

But to say that I DON'T have a right to compensation? Huh? Isn't a wage compensation? I do have a right to be compensated for a service that I am performing. I must be taking that out of context because it sounds elitist to me. I apoligize if I am off base on this.

When people are sizing up a bill in a restaurant and then thinking about how much they want to leave a server there can be a little bit of a power trip going on. They'll add a dollar here or take off a dollar there. Geez. Imagine what your life would be like if your boss paid you each day based on THAT day's performance. Oh man! Hahaha. That would be funny.

Also, for the record, I am severely opposed to all these tip jars where ever you have counter service. If I do tip there (e.g. Starbuck's) it has to be for service way above and beyond.

Interesting. It's been my understanding for four or five years now that the appropriate meal tip is 20 percent, or at a minimum for dinner.



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Brian

I tip 15% at a restaurant because the waiters make a tip-dependent, sub-minimum wage. I don't tip at hotels because the employees do not make a tip-dependent wage.

You can tip whatever you want, but don't try to make me feel guilty because someone has a minimum wage job.

What's the appropriate amount to tip housekeepers at hotels, particularly budget places? Does it make a difference if you got a discounted rate? Would you tip differently in the following locations (just for an example):

NYC
London
Anaheim
Vancouver
Seattle
Amsterdam

I just gotta say that every time I read another post about service workers feeling entitled to tips I just feel like tipping less and less.

QL

Hear, hear, QuietLion. Why do not the waitstaff/bartenders band together and strike for better pay? Unionize, that is. I always tip at MY discretion; and I worked at a restaurant. Having said that, I do tip; and quite well, if the service warrants! I guess, it's because I still believe in the good old-fashioned work-ethic of receiving money you work to earn.

The rule I have always heard from other, experienced travelers is $2-$3 US per day. Of course, this presumes average room conditions. I left $20 once for a maid in a suite where I had hosted a cocktail party the previous night.




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Brian

I'm making you feel guilty? Not possible. Perhaps it's your conscience.



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Brian

No tip is expected for housekeeping in the U.S.

QL

Not entirely true. Many Taxi cab drivers, Shuttle bus drivers, Tour bus drivers are paid on a commission basis. During slow times, they do not earn minimum wage.

[This message has been edited by debua1k (edited 05-20-2003).]

Had to weigh in on the question of whether a tip is completely voluntary or "required". If you look at it from the perspective of some countries/restaurants where there is "service included" - i.e., no extra tip required, because the payment for the service is included in the cost of the meal, but you might leave an extra few dollars/francs/euros for "above and beyond", then you've got to see that where service is NOT included (like most US restaurants), that means you should be "paying" for it, by adding a decent 15% in the event of normal service, and more for "above and beyond". In my opinion, absent really egregious service, the minimum tipping is compulsory, not optional.

As for chambermaids, there it is, in my opinion, completely optional, because that's all part of the hotel charges, but that shouldn't stop someone from tipping additionally where you've had good service - those ladies work super hard at a tough job for pretty small pay. I HATE housework, so I usually leave a few dollars a day in appreciation.

What I don't get, though, is the "need", especially in the US, to tip a doorman left and right for doing something as simple as summoning a taxi off the nearby taxi rank!

Just my 2 cents.

As an English guy who works mostly in the US I am getting more and more fed up with tipping becoming expected. If I have good service I do tip if the srvice is crap I wont. Also why 20% for a meal?
If I ate at a family resteraunt for $30 and the service was great the $6 would be fine by me as it was last week. Also last week Myself and my wife had a fine meal with average service in LAS that cost $750 with lots of good wine but as the service was average should I still leave 20%? That would be $150 for what? I left $20 because the service was only average and nothing more even if it was great should I leave $150.

One bell boy last week provide fantastic info for us last week in Scottsdale and got a $20 but another did nothing to help so got nothing.

I do tip and will continue to tip but only when I feel it is warranted but I hate been made feel that I have to.

Here here. I agree 100%. I will only tip if the service warrents it. I have been known to leave 0% if the service is crap but I will also tip generously if the service is exception.

I don't tip housekeepers in hotels - I pay for and expect a clean room. I don't leave money in those tip jars. I will probably tip more percentage-wise (sometimes even i dollar terms) in a diner or other homey restuarant where the waiters are kind and try to make you feel comfortable than at a more upscale place with mediocre servce.

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http://www.benjaminwagner.com
Great music!

No, I don't feel guilty. I was responding to your condescending post at the top of this thread.

Bottom line: people who tip out of generosity and kindness, realizing that others are not as fortunate, esp. due to downfalls, should be congratulated.

However, at the same time, people who do practice extra tipping should not EXPECT anyone else to do the same, or should not look down on those who don't share the same level of kindness as they do.

If they do, there's a problem. Simple as that, no?

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When once you have experienced being a 1K, you will forever fly the friendly skies with your eyes set on 100% mileage bonus and SWUs, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return, every year!

I won't necessarily look down on people who don't practice a high standard of kindness; however, I do feel it's unfortunate.

The situation is a bit worse than that (well, worse if you've ever been employed as waitstaff http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif ). Anyone who is classified as a tipped employee can be paid as little as $2.13/hr. The U.S. Department of Labor has a brief explanation on this page.

I only meant hourly or salaried employees. Sorry. I was not including commissioned workers, sales people, self-employed, etc.

I for one do not think tips are ever warranted for self-employed or commissioned workers. Their income is dependent on their own generated sales, not some unnamed fee extracted from the customer. This is why I always demand a "final price" from a hired car service. Likewise, I would not quote my customers a rate and then imply that I expect a gratuity on top of that.

Being a Brit too, tipping culture is something I am always a little uncertain with.

There is a metaphorical limit as to the limit of tipping. As Chris said he took he wife out for a $750 meal, surely any standard of service doesn't warrant a $150 tip!

$50 is the most, and the limit to what I would leave. If I take my girlfriend out for a nice meal and spend say $300 I would rather leave a $20 tip and buy a nice bottle of wine on the way home.

I can see this from both sides of the argument having worked in a £50 a head restaurant. We never really expected tips above £30 for a table of 10 even though IMHO we did provide good service.




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'There are only two emotions in a plane: boredom and terror'
Orson Welles (1915–1985)

The employer is required to make up the difference between wage+tips if it is less than standard minimum wage.

That is, the tip-dependent minimum wage could be zero, and the employee is still guaranteed at least the standard minimum wage.

Right, so now my tips are going to come down to 6%!!? Oh please. I understand that there are cultural differences and that people from countries where service is included have a difficult time justifying the 15% in their minds (forget 20%!). And another above poster does not want to tip 20% for average service for a $750 meal? That poster tipped @6% too! Sheesh! When I visit other countries I try to follow their customs even though I don't care for them and even though people visit my country and appraently do not follow ours.

Tipping food and beverage workers is not a "custom" here. It is a traditional work practice. A tip for a bartender or a waiter is a WAGE. That fact that some people cannot or will not get their mind around that and perhaps, even disagree with it, does not change the reality.

If you would like us to "band together and unionize", then your $750 meal will now be $900.

*whew*

I am getting upset and that is bad for my Karma.

I apologize if I ranted. It is funny how sensitive we (myself and some above posters) are with out money. We have a saying among waiters (I shouldn't say this 'cause a FEW will contradict it and flame me and I am a sensitive guy who can't take the flamimg but...) but here goes: "The bigger the car, the smaller the tip."

GoodKarmaGuy, do you pay your bills with percentage points or with dollars?

Who cares what % of the bill a tip is. It's just a guide; it's the dollars that matter in the end. The % guide gets out of whack when you're talking about very expensive food and wine. Tipping 20 bucks for a meal for just two people is a pretty big tip.

Personally, I would rather it was $900 and no tip. I'd really rather know before I venture in that it was what I will be expected to pay, rather than have to struggle with guessing what the local custom is for a restaurant bill of that size.

GoodKarmaGuy

How much time do you think the waiter spent at my table in tolal? Max 10mins so $20 for a good 10 mins of work is goot $60 per hour aint bad. Forget the percentage .....

Sorry if you don't like it but that is the way I am and I know many others are like it

What about McDonald, Burgerking and other fast food joints Do we tip them?

I'll do 20% of $200 tops, above that I'll round it up to say $50 or $60, there is no way I'm giving 20% of a $750 meal. No service in the world deserves $150 for a measly 20 minutes work. The entire tipping culture in the US has gone beserk, I'd rather tip the bagger at my local supermarket than give it some waiter that expects to make big bucks off an expensive meal, I reward good service but I'm not in charity neither can I be expected to pay a days wages of every waiter that helps me.

[/QUOTE]Personally, I would rather it was $900 and no tip. I'd really rather know before I venture in that it was what I will be expected to pay, rather than have to struggle with guessing what the local custom is for a restaurant bill of that size.[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree. Most of the English restaurants add a fixed service charge and if you have been waited on exceptionally you may add a tip.
I must say more recently, in areas frequented by American tourists some waiters have started giving you dirty looks if you dont tip in addition to the billed service charges.

I forgot in my last post 20% of my meal for 10 mins work is a nice $900 per hour. What a load of crap....

If a waiter in a top class restaurant averages tables of $750 ($150 tips) and has say 6 tables in 3 shifts he'll be making $2700 a night, weekdays probably half that, total: $37800 a month... gimme a break...

I was under the impression that tips in restaurants are shared with the busboys and kitchen staff also. No server gets to keep all of his or her tips. It does seem a bit ridiculous, in one way, though. If you go to dinner and get a cheap bottle of wine, or if you get the same dinner and an expensive bottle of wine, why should the tip be significantly higher in the second example?

OK.

First, please remember that I am serving at a top end hotel. Second, please note that in my above post I noted that I do not put money in tip jars on counters. Let's not get those two things mixed up.

It is interesting to me that many people who would pay a clown $250 for two hours worth of work at a kid's birthday party or a craftsman several hundred dollars for work on their house or car will rebel at the notion of paying a craftsman (me) a couple hundred dollars to ensure that they have an unforgettable special event(anniversary dinner, etc.).

If you think that this is NOT a craft, I assure you that it is. I read food books, eat out alone, visit other restauarnt kitchens, visit wineries without drinking, etc. I hope I don't sound obnoxious about this because I enjoy it. I'm good at it and I have fun. Most tables are not going to have $750.00 bills. Fters are not average! Most of us are well read and enjoy food and drink. Most waiters work 1 shift a day. With 1 1/2 hours of prep work before and 1 1/2 hours of closing work after, no top place is going to pay overtime. That time I spend tableside is just a part of the time I spend on a table. Besides the prep, cleanup, polishing glassware and silver (busboys are paid more so restaurants/hotels have US doit) I also am orchestrating your meal behind doors. Running the busser's butt off, and asking the food runner why the salads arent out yet. Telling the cooks that I won't accept that plate even though the chip is where a guest might never see it (what if they pick the plate up to move it?). I DON'T MIND. I love the work. I make 21% of my sales and my goal this year is to get it to 22%.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and have their own experiences. It amazes me that people will cuss at my ideas and experiences. Thank goodness for people who can see the reality of the market place and know that I did not set up the tipping practice and who are not self righteous enough to take it out on me. Thank goodness for the lady who tipped me $600 on a $1000 check on Christmas Day. Very generous and unexpected. (BTW $200 of that went immediatly into the pockets of my two bussers who both got teary-eyed). More got distributed later. We typically tip other staff 30-33%.

Y'all tip whatever you want. No problem.