It is also customary to tip IT project managers 20%, whether or not you consciously use IT project managers in your life. 20% of what, you ask? I don't know...just guess. $20 per day per project manager you know is probably sufficient, regardless of whether or not project managers in general annoy the **** out of you.

Cash is preferred, but beer is also acceptable.

That's what I figured. People who say it's customary to tip unconventionally have a vested interest in you tipping unconventionally.

If a "tip" is added on to a tour bus for a large group, that's what I would call a surcharge. Normally a group gets a group discount, not a group surcharge, but whatever the tour company wants to charge is fine with me. I just want to know up front how much it costs. I hate surprise add-ons.

[This message has been edited by JS (edited 06-04-2003).]

Web site developers too, $1.00 per page viewed is about right, maybe more if it had any useful information.

If you call any of the major tour companies, and inquire about employment as a tour bus operator, they will tell you that the compensation is between $8 and $12 per hour plus tips.

About 70% of people do tip the driver... I call that customary.

It is very confusing. Every body wants to tip people who are underpaid and get minimal wages. What happens when the owner skims off 7.5% of the tips? Most of the black cab drivers in UK are quite well to do and earn on an average 200 pounds per day before tips. I am sure a New York cabbie will earn that much as well. Is tipping a forced habit which satisfies your conscience? I am totally against any compulsory tipping and will gladly tip for good service.

What about regular bus drivers? They also get 8 to 12$ per hour. Why not add $1 every time you pay for your ticket? What about Greyhound drivers and National express bus drivers? It is staggering. Even in a poor country like India these compulsory tips are neither expected nor given. Why is USA so TIPS conscious?


[This message has been edited by drbala (edited 06-04-2003).]

For what optional services not included in the base price of the product?

I'd call it propaganda.

The minimum wage law says that an employer cannot pay less than X amount, but it doesn't say the employer GOTTA pay that amount... and no more. What is the staff being paid? I haven't a clue what the terms are between the employees of any given establishment and their employer.

Meanwhile, how in heaven's name am I supposed to compute who and how many employees are to be compensated by me? (the waiter, the busboy, the latter's fairy godmother, whatever. ) I want to patronize the stupid establishment, not manage it!

Folks, these threads always sound a little like Monty Pythons "Your Lupins or Your Life" sketch (sorry, that may not be the correct title, but MP fans will know the one.) As Dennis Moore, after riding through the glen one too many times said, "this redistribution of wealth is harder than I thought." : - )

[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 06-04-2003).]

Exactly,

Keep it simple!

The US residual tipping (residual because it is going away, not growing) culture relates to two professions alone:

Waiting tables and

Tending bar.

No one else in the US who is an employee is paid an irregular wage because of an anachronistic gratuity habit, IIRC orignating in Europe.

To our traveling and visiting guests: these two employment categories alone should receive the following:

15% gratuity on food
$1 per drink on all drinks

No other tipping is expected throughout the country. But please feel free to tip exceptional service from any service pro.

Greyhound drivers and National express drivers do not provide information about where you are visiting or entertain the passengers. A tour guide provides a narrative and history of the area visited. A good one will make the tour interesting. A bad one will make it boring. My boyfriend spends many hours preparing for his tours. He purchases music that represents the areas he is touring. He studies the area and learns the facts about things people might ask about. Today he took 6 people on a tour of the Grand Canyon. He needed to know about the plant and wildlife. He needed to know about the Native Americans from the area. A bus driver does not need to know these things.

[This message has been edited by debua1k (edited 06-04-2003).]

Chiming in one more time...

This is well said. Tipping anywhere else, would be, IMO, for extraordinary service. The bus driver/tour guide described in the immediatly preceding post is someone that I would probably tip. I tipped an SFO Ritz-Carlton doorman $20 in advance when he offered to comp my parking. (Legit and not under the table.) I tipped another Ritz doorman in DCA $40 at the end of the stay when he had kept my mom's car up front the whole 3 days at a comp AND treated my family like royalty, remembering names, etc. I don't believe either of these gentlemen expected the tip. I can not remember any other time tipping a doorman, unless it was getting a hard to find cab... but I cannot really remember.

To any foreign visitors I would reiterate fastflyer's post.


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Just trying to keep up with the gals in the trailer park next door.

That's the job a tour bus driver is supposed to do. Using that criteria, that if you do your job you should get a tip, then everyone who is employed should be tipped. That's ridiculous.

I think your definition of "extraordinary" is pretty liberal. You would tip the tour bus driver previously described? Why? That's exactly what the tour bus driver is supposed to do.

At the Ritz, for the amount of money it costs to stay there, excellent service is what I would expect. It should not be necessary to tip such large amounts. Although I suppose if you can afford to stay at the Ritz, dropping a twenty here and two twenties there is no big deal.

The free market, for-profit system doesn't compensate for how hard one works (does anyone know of a 'hard work meter' out there by which such a thing could be objectively measured) or how much one knows about the North American Indian or whatever -one receives only what the market will pay in the form of a negotiated salary or a price. Under this system, invariably some people will earn above average and some below - this has nothing to do with their abilities or service but with statistics and the vagaries of markets.

The nonprofit government system in many Western countries attempt to buffer disparities in the first system, say by providing minimum health care to people, or below-market interest rates for housing, or whatever. Extraordinary need requires extraordinary measures. What is meant by 'extraordinary need' has to be evaluated according to some kind of independent criteria, and not what I or any other individual considers 'extraordinary.'

I'll continue to tip, knowing that there is no way, ever, that this will ever meet criteria that never existed in the first place, because the practice exists outside of both the free market and government systems.