Enough!
 

I've had it. Any frequent flier knows that the security measures at the airports will not deter terrorism. I'm tired of having my personal items touched and rearranged and held up for everyone in the area to see. Not that I have anything interesting in there...but it's the idea of it! Yes, I DO mind if you touch me! Yes, I DO mind removing my shoes while they "run them through again." Really, isn't this all illegal? Don't we have a constitutional right not to be searched unless there's probable cause? I'm a white woman in my 40's...where's the probable cause? I'm platinum so obviously I've been flying a lot and haven't terrorized anyone yet! I'm just sick of it all. I've crossed the line! The only one hurt by this will be Continental because I practically can't stand it anymore! I want to be safe; I want my friends and family to be safe in the air, too. But these airline security efforts won't stop some nut case with an agenda. And they're trouncing on our civil rights. Does anyone know where I can find a group to throw join to protest this blatent disregard for our constitutional rights?

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faq.html#11

Interesting link LarryJ, thanks.

I believe you can choose between the Republican and the Democratic parties.
Take your pick.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

-- Dambus

So there are no White 40 year old Women who may be a danger to others . Platinum, so what , might just mean that the passenger has been travelling a lot looking for the softest target ! Not sure they'd join an FF scheme though it might be good cover.

Nigel

Don't forget that the meatball-terrorists were infiltrated into our society for more than 10 years. One man had clean-cut look and carried nothing but a brief-case - whowouldathunk? While I agree how much I despise the searches and such, and don't make me feel any safer, there is no alternative to this new life which has changed forever...enough said.

Just like to add that we in the UK have been subject to various security " inconveniences " for many years and it just becomes a way of life. God forbid that the US has to go through the years of bombings that we experienced with the IRA, but maybe that's the only way that people will realise they are neccessary.

I know some of you guys think that the searches are unconstitutional, that may well be, I don't even pretend to know but one thing I am sure of.Your constitutional rights are of no use whatsoever if you're dead.


Nigel

www.lp.org

A much better choice!

cthvglm, I deeply sympathize with you.

Write your representatives, cooperate begrudgingly at the airport, and report each and every instance of harassment at 866-289-9673

The crap that passes for "security" may currently be legal, but that doesn't mean we can't change it.

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

spiff...
Exactly... The situation can ... and MUST change. That's the foundation of our country. I DO smile and cooperate. In fact, I go overboard to be nice. The security folks are not the problem. The problem lies with our "homeland security" initiative. It's not working...

Actually, I can't recall the last time a 40-year-old white woman hijacked an aircraft. Also, at the current time, I don't know of any organizations of 40-year-old white women that have issued threats against the United States or its allies.

Not that I favor anything other than consistent, documented, and fair security procedures for all passengers, regardless of sex or race. I'm just pointing out the facts.

By the way, cthvglm, welcome to FT! You will find quite a few security-related threads (including a lot of rants) in Travelbuzz. I sympathize with your concerns!

I'm sure you don't look any more dangerous than Squeaky Fromme probably did (until she pulled out the gun). Why, you probably look as clean cut and all american as that kid who served in Desert Storm, what was his name? Oh, yeah, Timothy McVeigh. Or how about the 12 year old kid they nabbed at JFK recently, whose parent had put him on a plane, all alone, as a mule filled with 40 or 50 balloons of cocaine. I am sure no one would ever use a kid to smuggle terrorist devices onto an airplane. And if Richard Reid was still flying, I am sure it would never occur to him to have a nice 40-year old woman such as yourself carry the bomb in their shoes, instead of his own next time. So, I agree, you should be exempt from the security screening.

Djlawman

Just my two cents. Others, of course, may and will disagree.

This is what I mean, complete naivety where terrorism is concerned, welcome to the World !

Age, Colour, sex and travel patterns define terrorists? believe me it does not. Terror comes from within as well as from outside. You want to look for female terrorists look to the IRA, the PLO, ETA etc.

I've just done a search on the IRA and came up with this http://members.yahoo.com/interests/I...RA_-1600579835

It's a forum for people " interested " in the IRA, sure it might all be baloney but who knows ? There are Females listed in the members section as being from Sweden , Norway and the USA. Ages are supposedly 18,22,35 and 37 plus another that hasn't disclosed her age.

There is always someone who will listen to fanatics no matter what their background or upbringing and I hate to say this but religion tends to be a big part of it, not race,age, sex or FF accounts.


Nigel

Beergut, please go back and read the rest of my post.

No. You have a constitutional right to take the bus rather than fly. But buying an air ticket means you give implied consent to be searched in order to insure your compliance with security regulations.

I'm not sure what you want INSTEAD, cthvglm... you want to fly safe, but you don't want a security hassle?

In airports where TSA has taken over the situation is vastly improved. Delays are minimal and the whiteshirts are brisk, courteous and thoroughly professional.

This is what life is like from now on. Deal with it or deal with Greyhound.

Personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry! At least you can have comfort in knowing that they are doing this to everyone.... Even though its inconvenient, it gives us all peace of mind that we are safe.

Bear and DarlinG...
First, just because I choose to fly, doesn't mean that I have to accept that I give up my constitutional rights. I can disagree... that's my right. And, I can work to change it, as well. After all, these "agreements" were never put to a vote and since we live in a democracy, actions that may intrude on our freedoms should be accounted for... Especially when they result in Airline companies needing handouts from the government and our pockets to stay in the air after they lose their frequent (and high-paying) customers.
Also, if you actually believe the TSA will thwart future terroristic acts on the US, I believe you're sorely mistaken. All this is doing is taking our eye off other "weak" areas.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you're no safer today than you were pre 11-Sept, but you are definitely hassled more. "Security" remains a disgrace as they look for objects, not credible threats to aircraft.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Is that code for profiling?

By the way, did anyone happen to see lats Sunday's episode of "The Practice" (where an airline was sued for refusing to fly Arabs)?

As I'm aware of they're not trying to stop all future terrorist attacks on the US just the ones that may happen on an aircraft.

Go on USA , get rid of the " intrusive " security and have your " rights" chiselled into your headstone. It was widely reported in the UK that America had woken up to the threat of terrorism. Maybe the Government has but a lot of citizens sure haven't !


Just as an aside, I first travelled through Dubai ( Middle East !!!! ) about 5 years ago, the guy in front of me was sweating like a pig and shaking. Maybe just a nervous flyer but I thought he'd get pulled by security, he wasn't.. My last trip was a few months ago, this time boots were being removed at the metal detector and put through the scanner, no one complained even though the security were quite brusque in their manner.

Also last time through Abu Dhabi a tiny piece of foil wrapper wedged in the corner of my pocket set off the detector. I was taken aside, wanded and the foil found. We both had a laugh but I still got a good frisking as well http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/eek.gif

Believe me I'm not knocking people for complaining about it invading their rights or privacy, that's what it feels like at first. Give it a while and let things settle down and it'll be looked upon for what it is , security , big deal.


Nigel

Got it now Pinniped , sometimes these boards lose something in their translation < G >

All I'm trying to do is let people know the perspective from someone who's lived with these issues for years. A CIA spokesman was interviewed on TV here the other day, he said that the UK were 20 years ahead of the US in anti terrorism protection/detection. For obvious reasons I wish we didn't have to have those extra years of experience and I sure as hell hope you guys don't have to as well.

Security starts as overkill but soon finds its level in society

Nigel

I really wish all the thousands of people in their cars and on the subways each day were screened as well. Any one of them could have a bomb and kill thousands more. After all, driving or riding the subway is a privilege, not a right and I think doing either gives implied consent to be thoroughly searched. The same goes with walking down the street or shopping in stores. Neither of these is a right, rather a privilege and it would seem that the same implied consent is given that one be searched before stepping on a sidewalk or entering a store. Further, I live in a multi-unit building. Any person here could be a terrorist. Renting and property ownership are privileges, not rights and each person, I believe, gives implied consent to be searched before he or she enters the building. Dozens of lives are at stake.

Here in the UK you can be stopped and searched just about anywhere, even Harrods were searching bags a few years back. You can't search or screen everybody going about their daily business and some people seem to think that if you can't check everyone then don't have security anywhere. Maybe a few more deaths will convince people about their vulnerability. Wasn't there a passenger recently who tried to storm an El Al flight deck with a pocket knife he'd managed to carry on board ?. The same sort of knives that passengers STILL turn up at airports with. He slipped through the net so I'm certain El Al will be stopping all security screening, after all if they didn't stop him why bother with others, just wait till they get on board and then deal with it !!

Nigel



[This message has been edited by beergut (edited 12-04-2002).]

I just read that over the Thanksgiving weekend there were 16,000 knives, 6 guns, and one brick (?) found at US airport screening checkpoints.

Don't these people watch the news?

With thanks to Tom911 for posting this link on another board

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...t_contraband_1

Six people were arrested between Tuesday and Sunday for trying to carry guns on board.

Also at the 38 busiest US airports over thanksgiving 3,242 banned tools, 2,384 flammable items , 1072 clubs or bats and 20,581 sharp object were confiscated. Amongst these were a welding gun ! Meat cleaver and a toy cannon made of live ammunition. There were 15,982 pocket knives confiscated and also 98 boxcutters.

Welding Gun ? Meat Cleavers ? Who are these people ? particularly the headbangers who tried to board with box cutters.

I for one would rather these things were taken away at security rather than have to hope that the crew/passengers can deal with an incident in the air.

Tired of being searched and waiting in line, blame the passengers that live on another Planet.

Nigel



[This message has been edited by beergut (edited 12-04-2002).]

There never has been a constitutional right to fly on a scheduled airline flight.

Larry , maybe the Guy was moving house http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

Nigel

P.S Are you the same Larry that used to post on the Compuserve travel forum ?

Nigel

If you actually read the United States Constitution, you'll find nothing in there that shields you from security checks as precursors to private business transactions.

When you pay for something with a credit card and the cashier asks to see your ID, do you complain that your constitutional rights are being violated?

When you apply for a mortgage and the banker wants to see last year's tax return, do you complain that your constitutional rights are being violated?

When you go to a ballgame and the guy at the gate checks your cooler to make sure you're not bringing a fifth of whisky into the park, are your constitutional rights being violated?

No. No. No.

Exactly the same principle is at work with commercial air travel. You can choose not to use the facility, but you have no "constitutional" exemption to the preconditions.

I refuse to show my ID, not because of the US Constitution, but because both VISA and MASTERCARD forbid merchants from demanding ID as a condition of using the card. VISA and MASTERCARD have recently confirmed to me that this is still their rule.

Only way ID with a credit card is ok is if the signature clearly doesn't match, the card is not signed, or if all customers (including cash customers) must show ID.

Rules is rules, and I make merchants follow them.

Never been a consitutional right to walk down the sidewalk, either. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Bear , apply for a mortgage over here and as well as proof of earnings the bank will want proof of ID as well, Passport or driving licence and a utilility bill from your address. Large deposits ( not huge ones )are notified to the authorities to try and prevent money laundering by terrorists and criminals. Like the US sports fans are checked for booze and weapons entering the Stadium.

At one time people were injecting Oranges with Vodka to fool security and sharpening coins to throw at opposing fans.

Nigel

Well, Nigel, it's a common -- and unbecoming -- American trait for citizens to complain loudly about what they imagine are their constitutional rights without having read or understood the document in question. In fact its guarantees of US citizenship are so murky, the US Supreme Court has its hands full 200+ years later trying to figure out how to apply them to modern situations.

Anyway, surveys consistently show the vast majority of Americans cannot identify any of the rights actually guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, either. (Which is a packet of ex post facto amendments to the Constitution itself.) We are nonetheless famous about loudly demanding our rights all the time.

Not saying anything specific about anyone posting to this thread.

I should've written "pay with a check."

Nigel,

Maybe you are just unfamiliar with what a 'welding gun' looks like. Why this item would be confiscated is beyond me. Yes, the term 'gun' may sound alarming, but carrying a device that has an electrical plug at one end, and a clamp for a metal wire at the other poses a threat in which manner? Without a high current power source, what harm could it do?

GMF

I never noticed bricks on the banned items list.... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

This is completely irrelevant. My wife said the same thing over the weekend when I got special screening because of my first SSSS (we're both 1Ps on UA). Some of the hijackers were elite-level flyers. Just because you fly a lot doesn't mean you should expect special treatment on screenings. A special line is about it, IMO.

Why my checked box (containing pumpkin bread, etc) required opening after being screened in SFO is beyond me. I fault the administration for this, not the "new, improved" people on the front line. This security is sugar coating so that Joe Six Pack thinks the govt is doing something to protect them. Sure, thanks for that $10 tax while you are at it!

While a big hassle which is getting worse, this is nothing compared to what other parts of the world have lived with for years and years. I remember being in London a few years ago and not seeing a single garbage can in the train stations or airport. This was because of bombs being hidden in these in the past. Imagine the US without garbage cans every 10 ft. What would this society do with its Big Mac wrappers then?

Sadly, probably the same thing that they do with them now. Toss them out the window. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/frown.gif



------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Won't change things much. The whole country is already one big ashtray. Go outside any building, and take a look at the ground.

And a lot of the time, the nine wise lawyers on the Supreme Court disagree by 5-4 or 6-3 votes about the extent of those rights. If they can't figure it out unanimously, there's no reason to expect anyone else to know.


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"Yes, but at least mine will be found in a first class seat." -- Peattie and Taylor

Brick of what??