Personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry! At least you can have comfort in knowing that they are doing this to everyone.... Even though its inconvenient, it gives us all peace of mind that we are safe.

Bear and DarlinG...
First, just because I choose to fly, doesn't mean that I have to accept that I give up my constitutional rights. I can disagree... that's my right. And, I can work to change it, as well. After all, these "agreements" were never put to a vote and since we live in a democracy, actions that may intrude on our freedoms should be accounted for... Especially when they result in Airline companies needing handouts from the government and our pockets to stay in the air after they lose their frequent (and high-paying) customers.
Also, if you actually believe the TSA will thwart future terroristic acts on the US, I believe you're sorely mistaken. All this is doing is taking our eye off other "weak" areas.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you're no safer today than you were pre 11-Sept, but you are definitely hassled more. "Security" remains a disgrace as they look for objects, not credible threats to aircraft.



------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Is that code for profiling?

By the way, did anyone happen to see lats Sunday's episode of "The Practice" (where an airline was sued for refusing to fly Arabs)?

As I'm aware of they're not trying to stop all future terrorist attacks on the US just the ones that may happen on an aircraft.

Go on USA , get rid of the " intrusive " security and have your " rights" chiselled into your headstone. It was widely reported in the UK that America had woken up to the threat of terrorism. Maybe the Government has but a lot of citizens sure haven't !


Just as an aside, I first travelled through Dubai ( Middle East !!!! ) about 5 years ago, the guy in front of me was sweating like a pig and shaking. Maybe just a nervous flyer but I thought he'd get pulled by security, he wasn't.. My last trip was a few months ago, this time boots were being removed at the metal detector and put through the scanner, no one complained even though the security were quite brusque in their manner.

Also last time through Abu Dhabi a tiny piece of foil wrapper wedged in the corner of my pocket set off the detector. I was taken aside, wanded and the foil found. We both had a laugh but I still got a good frisking as well http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/eek.gif

Believe me I'm not knocking people for complaining about it invading their rights or privacy, that's what it feels like at first. Give it a while and let things settle down and it'll be looked upon for what it is , security , big deal.


Nigel

Got it now Pinniped , sometimes these boards lose something in their translation < G >

All I'm trying to do is let people know the perspective from someone who's lived with these issues for years. A CIA spokesman was interviewed on TV here the other day, he said that the UK were 20 years ahead of the US in anti terrorism protection/detection. For obvious reasons I wish we didn't have to have those extra years of experience and I sure as hell hope you guys don't have to as well.

Security starts as overkill but soon finds its level in society

Nigel

I really wish all the thousands of people in their cars and on the subways each day were screened as well. Any one of them could have a bomb and kill thousands more. After all, driving or riding the subway is a privilege, not a right and I think doing either gives implied consent to be thoroughly searched. The same goes with walking down the street or shopping in stores. Neither of these is a right, rather a privilege and it would seem that the same implied consent is given that one be searched before stepping on a sidewalk or entering a store. Further, I live in a multi-unit building. Any person here could be a terrorist. Renting and property ownership are privileges, not rights and each person, I believe, gives implied consent to be searched before he or she enters the building. Dozens of lives are at stake.

Here in the UK you can be stopped and searched just about anywhere, even Harrods were searching bags a few years back. You can't search or screen everybody going about their daily business and some people seem to think that if you can't check everyone then don't have security anywhere. Maybe a few more deaths will convince people about their vulnerability. Wasn't there a passenger recently who tried to storm an El Al flight deck with a pocket knife he'd managed to carry on board ?. The same sort of knives that passengers STILL turn up at airports with. He slipped through the net so I'm certain El Al will be stopping all security screening, after all if they didn't stop him why bother with others, just wait till they get on board and then deal with it !!

Nigel



[This message has been edited by beergut (edited 12-04-2002).]

I just read that over the Thanksgiving weekend there were 16,000 knives, 6 guns, and one brick (?) found at US airport screening checkpoints.

Don't these people watch the news?

With thanks to Tom911 for posting this link on another board

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...t_contraband_1

Six people were arrested between Tuesday and Sunday for trying to carry guns on board.

Also at the 38 busiest US airports over thanksgiving 3,242 banned tools, 2,384 flammable items , 1072 clubs or bats and 20,581 sharp object were confiscated. Amongst these were a welding gun ! Meat cleaver and a toy cannon made of live ammunition. There were 15,982 pocket knives confiscated and also 98 boxcutters.

Welding Gun ? Meat Cleavers ? Who are these people ? particularly the headbangers who tried to board with box cutters.

I for one would rather these things were taken away at security rather than have to hope that the crew/passengers can deal with an incident in the air.

Tired of being searched and waiting in line, blame the passengers that live on another Planet.

Nigel



[This message has been edited by beergut (edited 12-04-2002).]

There never has been a constitutional right to fly on a scheduled airline flight.

Larry , maybe the Guy was moving house http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

Nigel

P.S Are you the same Larry that used to post on the Compuserve travel forum ?

Nigel

If you actually read the United States Constitution, you'll find nothing in there that shields you from security checks as precursors to private business transactions.

When you pay for something with a credit card and the cashier asks to see your ID, do you complain that your constitutional rights are being violated?

When you apply for a mortgage and the banker wants to see last year's tax return, do you complain that your constitutional rights are being violated?

When you go to a ballgame and the guy at the gate checks your cooler to make sure you're not bringing a fifth of whisky into the park, are your constitutional rights being violated?

No. No. No.

Exactly the same principle is at work with commercial air travel. You can choose not to use the facility, but you have no "constitutional" exemption to the preconditions.

I refuse to show my ID, not because of the US Constitution, but because both VISA and MASTERCARD forbid merchants from demanding ID as a condition of using the card. VISA and MASTERCARD have recently confirmed to me that this is still their rule.

Only way ID with a credit card is ok is if the signature clearly doesn't match, the card is not signed, or if all customers (including cash customers) must show ID.

Rules is rules, and I make merchants follow them.

Never been a consitutional right to walk down the sidewalk, either. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif