You Kick the Back of this Seat Again & I'll...........
 

Just finished reading the thread about kiddies and the dirty diapers and it reminded me of IAD to AMS with 2 little monsters behind us who just had to kick the back of our seats. The plane was full and the thought of having to endure this until the little heathens fell out was unbearable. I finally said something to "Mommy Dearest", but you know how that goes. Anyway, I guess I had blocked this out of my mind until I read the ***tty diaper story.

Ha, Seat behind? ORD-MUC, next to me in the middle aile with 4 seats a fat guy with his family, I nearly leaned on the aisle because he needed a bit much space..
After an hour or so he decided to let his kid sit in his place next to me...my enthusiasm fanished immediatly...This little monster either played around in the seat, thus kicking me and nearly leaning on my seat, or he slept and kicked me there all the time. He thought noone minds when he stretches over 3 seats while sleeping, and now lets talk about parents not getting a hint!
I love kids, but the ones around me learned to behave when in public, this boy was at least 5, there you can expect some manners!

And directly after that is when people leave during meal service their seats reclined! Dont they listen to those "please bring your seat in upright position" announcements?

Enough ranting, I have seen the last years also some truly wonderful kids on airplanes,and believe me, I always talked to their parents and made them compliments!

This is why John Madden takes the bus to the NFL games instead of flying http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

How wonderful when parents don't discipline their children and instead allow them to bother the passenger in front of him/her. If you say something, you typically get an arrogant person who thinks that their cute little "Merritt" can do no wrong and that it is you who needs to "lighten up". Besides, they paid for that child's seat so he/she wants to kick, so be it.

Oh there is a remedy to that. You might sneer but I have to tell you, this works. I've had the dubious honor of having such a delightful family behind me on a few rare occasions so when the parent feels that he or she should be treated like the Emperor of the World, I say "fine". Then I warn them that everytime his/her child kicks me, I will turn around and sneeze or cough over the child. I'll make up a white lie and say that I have some hideous cold and that each time I get kicked, my body reacts with either uncontrollable coughing or sneezing. If they give me a "who cares" look, well that's just fine. I'll do it then. The parent will then see (as will all the adults sitting nearby) that I mean business and will finally stop their little precious dear from being an annoyance.

Again, this rarely happens. Typically in my experience, parents are more than willing to stop their child from the endless kicking. They are usually very apologetic. Yet for those with holier than thou attitudes, the above works like a charm. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

This is a huge pet peeve of mine. I had a horrible flight to SEA a few years ago that never actually materialized. The airplane door was stuck at the gate, so we sat on the plane for several hours while they tried to fix it. In the meantime, 2 children behind me took turns kicking my seat. About an hour and a half in, I turned around, and asked the parents if they could stop their children from kicking my seat. They replied that their kids could do whatever they wanted, and if I didn't like it, I should fly first class. The nerve! It's stuff like this that sends my blood pressure rocketing. I thought about pouring my bottle of water all over them, telling them that if they didn't like it, they should fly first class, but ultimately decided that I really needed the water!

Anyone else think the time has come for child-free flights, or in the alternative, a special designated section of the plane for families with children? Wouldn't it be great if travelers had an option of having some flights be child-free? I am not suggesting that all flights be child-free, that would be unfair. However, it would be nice for once if we had the option of booking a flight and knowing that there would be no children on it. And while they're at it, how about a few pet-free flights too. I am allegeric to cats and some dogs, yet when a passenger is seated next to me with "fluffy", the flight attendants always say there's nothing they can do about it.

It should be a requirement that children be belted in during the entire flight, unless they need to use the restroom.

I keep my belt on when seated.You would think the parents would worry more.

I gave a 4 year old dirty looks while he stood on the seat in front of me and peer over the back of the seat while I was eating. Eventually he got the hint.

I know...that's not very nice but...

Little kids have a hard time sitting still. I try to keep my four year old from kicking the seat in front of him, but it's not possible to stop it completely.

If you're talking about big kids, who can sit still, or parents who don't do anything to try to keep their toddler still, that's one thing. But, if you want to ensure the back of your seat is not touched at all, your only choice is the last row of a cabin, or UA E+.

Also, just because you don't overhear the parent behind you saying something to the child doesn't mean the parent isn't trying. If I see my son start to swing his legs, I'll put my hand on his legs and that stops him for a little while. If I don't see him start to swing his legs, it's too late to prevent a little bump or two (little legs in a small space move fast). If you were sitting in the next row up, you wouldn't hear anything, but that doesn't mean I'm not trying.


Analise, when you lie and fake sneeze in this situation, you are being childish. Kids cannot sit perfectly still like adults, but adults can be civilized and not act like children.

Actually, there are many vendors who provide these two services. Charter a plane! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Maybe it's childish, maybe not, but the important thing is that it's effective, and no one is being harmed, and the parents are getting the message that your children are disturbing other passengers, and you need to start demanding self-discipline from your children.

Is the age of four too early for that? If it is, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would say six is too early, ten is, 16 is - there's no limit to how long people today seem to believe they don't have to grow up. (Witness the popularity of South Park, Jerry Springer, Big Brother, etc.)

Having said that, hopefully, this situation presents itself rarely, and Analise doesn't have to do this very often. No one likes to be the bad guy, but better children learn when they are younger than later on. I have had to stop children from harassing other children when their parents were nowhere to be seen, and I did not enjoy it, but I'm proud I did it.

To perfectly honest, it means nothing to me that some or many believe that I might be acting "childish". You will see in my piece above that it is on the rare occasion when the parent speaks in some high and mighty tone at me that I do as I do. I refuse to have some high-anxiety child continue to kick my seat.

I agree with the idea of having mandatory seatbelts on children say under 13. If they cannot sit still, then they should not be on an airplane. My parents strictly enforced that when I was a child. If I or my siblings even remotely bothered a passenger, we were told we would be left at home the next time the family went on vacation. That worked. Amazing about parental involvement and discipline, isn't it? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by Analise (edited 08-23-2002).]

What I find objectionable about JS's response is it assumes that he/she should know better. First of all, do you have a Ph.D. in child psychology? How do you know Analise doesn't have 10 children of her own? Me, either?

I'm not TRYING to be argumentative, but I dislike when FTer's take criticism personally, and then go and attack others, by calling them names, like childish, whatever.

It is always true that reasonable people can agree to disagree without resorting to ad hominem attacks, and when I hear that kind of rhetorical nonsense, I may just call you on it.

Furthermore, all FTer's have the right to post their personal experiences freely, and what conclusions they have drawn about them. If you disagree with the conclusions, and can educate us all, so much the better.

That's all I want to say.

[This message has been edited by anonplz (edited 08-23-2002).]

Analise, wow, i'm surprised, we found something we agree on LOL.. just kidding, seriously, I'm with you and the sneezing, I have numerous tricks of my own that I use on kids to get them or their parents to notice that what the little rug rat is doing bugs the heck out of me..

if the sneezing works, go with it..

Let me clarify -- I am not attacking anyone personally. All I am saying is that an adult doing a fake sneeze and cough is a childish thing to do. It has nothing to do with who you are, whether you have children, or anything, other than being an adult who should not stoop down to that level.

Re "I agree with the idea of having mandatory seatbelts on children say under 13. If they cannot sit still, then they should not be on an airplane."

When my four year old sits in a coach seat (other than UA E+) with his seat belt on, his feet can reach the back of the seat in front of him.

Actually, not keeping his seat belt on prevents kicking. He likes to stand and look out the window, walk up and down the aisle, and sit on the floor and play toys or color in a coloring book laid on the seat. Of course, he has to have the seat belt on when the seat belt sign is lit, which seems to be on half the flight on 2 hour flights.

TrojanHorse, we agree once in a blue moon, right? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Sneezing and coughing work. A pity that I must resort to that sometimes. A gentleman sitting next to me on a flight to SFO shared that approach with me about a year ago. So what are some of the numerous tricks of your own? Now you've got me curious.

[This message has been edited by Analise (edited 08-23-2002).]

Call me "curious" too. I would love an arsenal to combat these seat kickers.

Do they work with the adult seat kickers as well?

I agree there should be certain sections on the plane that should be for families only. Preferably soundproof! I would think it would be beneficial for both other passengers (not to be tortured) and parents (not be glared at).

Every time I fly, I inevitably get the only child on the plane within 3 rows of my seat. Or if my luck is exceptionally bad, ALL the children on the flight are within 3 rows of me. I usually just go the evil stare route but I realize, beyond that there's not much I can do but count my woes. Analise's sneeze remedy is interesting but after a while, I think it would require too much energy on my behalf to keep sneezing!

Of all my flights, only three incidents really pissed me off.

3. HKG-EWR - 14 hours of hell listening to a 18 month old say "Mama" nonstop throughout the entire flight. I switched seats in order to not be in the row directly in front and promptly felt sorry for the person I switched with. The kid was climbing all over the back of their seat!

2. LAX-SYD - 8 year old plays video game behind me and I was treated to several hours of frenetic seat-kicking action. Parent tried to help but soon fell asleep. Fortunately, I was so tired, I fell asleep too - despite the kicking. However, I deplaned with an awful backache.

1. Same flight as #2. This one takes the cake. 4 year old kid in the middle aisle of 747 (I was in the section on the right - same row) was the perfect picture of a well-mannered child. I was dreading the inevitable wailing but that never materialized. It was the parents that were ill-mannered (loud, obnoxious and drunk). They drank themselves into inconsciousness and left the child unattended! The poor kid didn't know what to do when she had to use the bathroom. No less than 3 flight attendants, 4 passengers and their child were needed to wake these people up!

It's been my experience children learn by example action than words. I would think the important thing would be being honest rather than doing or saying something that isn't true. I would suggest deception is a harmful example of remedy for a situation.

FAs are there primarily for your safety but I think after polite, honest attempts to change the situation you might ask for their assistance.

sorry - this isn't a "plane" story but in the category of obnoxious parents - I was just in Mexico, where they have a pool with a swim up bar (adult pool!) and I was sitting on a seat reading a paperback. Pool was not crowded. A kid came next to me on the seat (I am some kind of kid-magnet) and started splashing deliberately. He soaked me and my book. Now some might argue that I should not have been reading in the pool but I was not harming anyone and not expecting this kid. I told him to stop it. I was ignored and splashed again. I said it again, again ignored and splashed. I then said "vete" (go away, pretty rude but figured he would get it.)

The father overheard and both he and the mother said that the kid could do whatever he wanted. I said I was just asking it to move away and splash somewhere else. They were very rude and said that this is a pool, everyone can do what they want to and the man actually called me a "puta". Like someone else posted, I felt my blood pressure rising and thought of saying "oh well if this pool is for everyone to do whatever they want then I think I will drown this kid or kick your head in" or something. Of course all I could do was leave but I hate these kind of parents. What are they thinking? what kind of person will this kid grow up to be if treated like this as a child? I am sorry, but adults have rights too. And I do feel that I have more rights than a bratty child, unfair as that might seem to some.

Seat kickers - I also would love to hear some strategies, short of reaching back and grabbing their legs (I did this once at a Mets game after repeated requests fell on deaf ears and no place to move. My BF saw and got really mad at me. This kind of thing does not bother him at all.)

[This message has been edited by CozumelJen (edited 08-25-2002).]

I am amazed at all these reports of bratty children and negligent parents who let them run wild.

I fly a lot and I simply can't remember any such incidents. Oh, I have certainly seen little ones cry at take off and landing, which is very understandable as they don't know how to equalize the pressure on their ears. Fortunately crying a bit accomplishes that. I have seen restless and fussy toddlers and young children, but they usually settle right down. I have also had people, both big and little, touch the back of my seat from time to time, but I never had the impression that their so doing was in anyway designed to annoy me.

I guess I am just really, really lucky.

FWIW, I do not agree that being honest is always the best response. For example, if your wife/significant other looks like crap in those stupid gym shoes she loves so much, and she asks you how she looks, you say, "Fine!"

Likewise, if a child's parent is aware that their child is kicking the back of the seat and that it's disturbing other passengers and they are still unwilling to chastise their child, the other passenger is not likely to try reasoning with a four year old. They are simply going to take whatever steps are necessary to effect a favorable outcome.

As I see it, children learn from this two things: 1) despite what their parents' actions say, if they refuse to behave in pulic, they risk being punished (short of corporal punishment, of course), if not by their parents, then by the people they are disturbing, because children are members of society just like adults, and may need to be disciplined; 2) lying/manipulation are sometimes the only effective strategies in some situations.

EDIT: An FA is supposed to take care of these situations, but they probably don't care what's going on, because they are not being subjected to this harassment. It's just easier for them to let the passengers work it out.

Furthermore, lest you think I am being too harsh, let me tell you, when I was a child, and I did something wrong, and the teacher scolded me, and my mother found out about it, she was very likely to take the teacher's side and let me take my lumps.

[This message has been edited by anonplz (edited 08-25-2002).]

Punki - there is a good reason for your "luck." Smiles and kind hearts bring good responses.

We were flying back from London to SFO this July and in a row behind us were a mother and father with 18 month old triplets! The flight was delayed almost 2 hours becasuse of electrical problems, so the kids became increasingly restless. Long story short, about 1 hour into the flight a man in the row in front of the family turned around and hit the mother and one of the children! She, in turn, stood up, hit him back, and a huge fight ensued. After 9/11 we're all a little on edge, so this was all it took to put the whole flight on edge. I don't think anyone slept the entire way. The flight attendants moved the man, but the rest of us had to continue the trip with the 3 crying babies and the angry parents. What fun!

Was the man arrested upon landing?

Either that or because families with kids don't usually fly business class?

It happened to me last week BWI-ORD. A kid was kicking my seat and I just gave the parents a bad look. I was too tired and sleeping most of the time. When the FA served the refreshments, she noticed it too and told the parents to control the kid and it stopped! Thanks AA FA!

A friend of mine told me an anti-seat-kicker remedy one time. Apparently, whenever a child is kicking his seat and the parents refuse to discipline the little brat, he turns around and whispers real soft to the offender "If you don't stop kicking my seat, I'm going to eat your fingers."

He says the method has a 100% success rate - the kid sits down, shuts up, and puts his hands in his pockets.

(BTW, I've never tried this. I don't think I could keep a straight face...)

That's the best news yet, Viajera. I'm heartened to read that FA's are addressing not only the child but the arrogant parent who would not discipline their child! Good job American Airlines.

I love the idea of a separate section for children. I was behind a seat-kicking child in a transcon business class section and i was ready to rip his little feet off. His father couldn't be bothered even talking to the kid, preferring to concentrate on his laptop, and ignoring the whole thing. If I had my way, children under 16 would be barred from 1) First Class 2) Business Class 3) the first half of coach 4) airline club rooms. I am so sick of parents who feel they are spending 'quality time' if they drag little Ashley or Hunter on a business trip with them. My father traveled quite a bit in the 1960's and I asked him once if he would take me along. He replied that, in his absence, he needed me to be 'the man of the house' and that was the end of that. If you want to spend time with your kids, then take a job that doesn't require you to be on the road. (I know several parents in my company who have done just that). Personally, I'm glad God made me gay so I'll never have to deal with kids of my own brecause I'd either tie them into the seat or give them a sleeping pill (go ahead, let me have it!)
Paul

All great ideas, Paul. I've always wanted to suggest to a blockheaded parent that they put the kid in an overhead bin or under the seat, but I haven't had the chance yet. Maybe on my next trip.

Perhaps it's the blockheaded parent who should be put up there? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

I'm writing this because I have spent much time on this thread defending the rights of passengers who are disrupted by hyper children and their arrogant parents. Well it is not only the parent who can be arrogant. I witnessed first-hand probably one of the most obnoxious people I've ever encountered (and that says a lot considering I live in a city of 8 million people! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif) and this was not a parent by the way.

Saturday morning, I began a mileage run to SEA via IAH. I was in first for 3 of the 4 legs. The one leg I was in coach was from IAH to SEA. Anyhoo, I was in 8C. In 8A was a 10 year girl (Sarah) flying alone for the third time in her life (she was proud of how grown up she was!). In 8B was was an 8 year old girl (Ashley) making her first solo flight. Both girls did not know each other prior to the flight. As the plane was boarding, a very heavy man was assigned to 7A which was the bulkhead. He asked the FA to reseat him in a part of the plane which had two seats available. The FA found a couple (maybe in their early 60s) who gladly switched their back of the plane seats for the bulkhead. The FA told that couple that both 7A and 7B were available. With bulkhead, the armrests are stationary.

So the scene is set. Sarah was quite friendly and noticed how nervous Ashley was. Well she explained "the ropes" to her and let her know how fun flying can be. Ashley warmed up to her and felt comfortable that she was not the only child flying in a sea of adults. The FAs thought them to be adorable and gave them a set of wings, playing cards, and other trinkets to let them know how special they were. I was very impressed with how CO treated these girls. The FAs were first-rate.

Sarah was very talkative and open. She said that her parents had just moved to SEA from IAH and she had just spent a few weeks with her grandparents since the accident. Accident, I asked? In a very matter of fact demeanor, she told me of how her little brother was born prematurely and how he had lived in the hospital for nearly 4 months. The day came for the family to take her little brother home. The parents were up front in the car; she and her little brother were in the back seats. As they were crossing an intersection on a green light, a man trying to make the light hit the car and hit the backseat side where her brother was seated. The man was not drunk; he was merely late and in a rush. They all were taken by ambulance back to the hospital where her brother was put in an incubator with tubes all over him. Sarah then opened up her purse and showed me a picture of him saying "This is my brother". The poloroid was horrifying. He died the following week. Then she said that they all moved up to Seattle to begin life again and that's why she was heading up there now. Her maturity and composure given her family's nightmare were remarkable and something from which we adults can learn. Needless to say, I was very impressed with her. Moreover, she took on the roll of big sister with Ashley which I don't think any adult unknown to Ashley could do.

Both girls got up and down about 5 times to use the bathroom which is par for the course and not a big deal to me. I got up, stayed standing until they were done, and then sat down after they returned. The girls then started to giggle, play games, laugh, do anything to keep up busy for a 4 hour flight. The man in front of them had a problem with this. He would speak loudly to his wife about how those girls are disrupting his flight and that they were bothering him. He leaned his seat as far back as possible for the entire flight which of course he has the right to do. But even a 10 year old can feel constricted to be seated by the window with the seat in front of her nearly on her lap. Hence, she and Ashley faced each other, told jokes, did those hand-clapping games (remember Miss Mary Mack, all dressed in black? I do!) and kept each other company. They had their seatbelts on and were not doing anything to physically disrupt that passenger in front of Sarah. I know because I was there.

Well this man made quite a stink about it. He turned around and told the girls to "stop it and be good little girls". What were they doing? Giggling? He then got the attention of an FA and said that he was being kicked by these "rabblerousers" and he would not put up with that. The FA must do something, he insisted. He then turned around and told both of them that they were bad little girls who deserved to be spanked. I was horrified and infuriated so I stepped in to defend them by remarking that he had gall to speak to two unaccompanied children like that. They were doing nothing of the sort except for laughing and then I asked if he enjoyed picking on little girls? I then suggested if they were disturbing him, he might not want to lean his seat into one of them.

The FA then came to me and asked if what this man said were true. I said it was not and that neither of these girls was kicking the seat in front of her. I then mentioned that this particular man moved up to the bulkhead on his own volition knowing that there were children behind him. I then mentioned that I'm particularly sensitive to being kicked by the person behind me and that I was paying attention to what the girls were doing. The only time they touched the seats in front of them were when they were going to and from the bathroom. With those seats leaned all the way back, they had to grab them for balance.

The man kept quiet after that but did not move his seat up. The girls showed maturity during this whole situation by not saying one word. I spoke for them. This man made up the kicking story (I'm guessing) because he could not complain about the loud giggling these two girls were doing. Funny, his wife never said a word.

Now I may get annoyed and ticked off when I'm kicked by a child, but I would never, ever speak to a child like that, especially if that child were flying alone. That's taking things to the worst and opposite extreme. When that man told those girls how bad and poorly mannered they were, I was fit to be tied. To label children like that is just plain wrong. Had he heard about what Sarah went through, he might have seen what a trooper she is. But no, he just thought of himself and made up lies to justify his discomfort.

After a while, the FA came around to take drink orders. I asked for a diet coke; Ashley asked for orange juice; Sarah asked for a Bloody Mary mix, no vodka. The FA looked at me, I at him. Yup, that was one sophisticated little girl.

I just wanted to share this story because it's one thing for us to get upset at being kicked; it's quite another to be someone who lashes out at children.

Sometimes the parents aren't seated next to the child and couldn't care less about what the offspring is doing. On a AMS-JFK flight a couple of years ago, a 5-year old (or so) had a window seat, next to my husband's and my middle and aisle seats. The parents--and it took me a couple of hours to figure out they were the parents because throughout the entire flight they exhibited complete indifference to the child--were seated in the middle section.

Neither the parents nor the child spoke any English (or Dutch or German or French, etc.). We figured they must have been East European since the child recognized a couple of words when we tried Russian and Polish with him (out of desperation, we tried every language we knew). He talked non-stop to us (it didn't bother him that we didn't understand a word), walked all over us (literally) to get to the aisle to run around, and of course, he had to go to the bathroom IMMEDIATELY as soon as the meal and the drinks were served (getting him out was some exercise, believe me). He refused to take the aisle seat, despite my best effort to convince him otherwise. All my attempts to communicate with the parents proved futile--they wouldn't even look at me (they must have been happy to have somebody taking care of the little brat for a while). And the FAs thought he was my child and kept giving me dirty looks until I finally stopped one and explained the situation to her. Then she tried to communicate with the parents--but had about as much success as I did.

I'm curious: is there a law requiring that children be seated next to their parents? I would have gladly switched seats with anyone; hell, I would have moved to the baggage compartment, just to avoid those 8 hours of terror.

[This message has been edited by helenka (edited 09-03-2002).]

[This message has been edited by helenka (edited 09-03-2002).]

Analise:

Thank you for sharing your story. The girls were lucky to have an advocate for them. I'm sure they'll remember this experience and be better people for it.

I've found being with children, even in trying situations, helps to improve me as a parent and a person.

i dinna, i'm with Punki, i never really have much any of these troubles.

i'm almost thankful when it's a kid sitting next to me; their discussions tend to be simpler and i don't mind a 5-year-old talking my ear off anywhere near as much as some bore from Wahoosie. i'd rather talk about Dora the Explorer than the NASDAQ trends.

so, uh, i'm fine with kids. now adults who kick the seats....grrrr...

There's no law. As a matter of fact I have been separated from my kids on flights several times. At least 95% of the other passengers were too self-centered to even listen to seat switching requests (sound like anyone here? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif )

Of course the kid wasn't going to switch away from the window. I guess you were never a kid or you'd know that. Why didn't you ask the parents to switch so they could be with their child? If language was a problem, you could have just stood up and made an obvious gesture towards your open seats.

Let me see if I have this straight. Kid acts like a kid by playing and splashing in a pool and your thoughts turn to kicking heads in? And just what was it that you wanted to parents to do? Perhaps slap the kid around a little for not listening to the uptight American woman?

Next time maybe you could try just splashing the kid back.

To get back to the main issue:

You Kick the Back of this Seat Again & I'll...........

Politely offer to exchange seats with them.

If everyone who was bothered by the kicking followed suit, the offending kids would eventually get to the bulkhead row where they couldn't bother anyone else. I know this wouldn't work in many cases, for example from anywhere behind the exit row, but it might be worth a shot.

Scowling and growling at the kids or their parents (who may well be doing their quiet best) only makes people angry and upset and less likely to cooperate.

Somebody is a bit bitter I see. Uptight American woman?

Well if those 95% (a figure I'll accept on your good word) do refuse to move seats, perhaps it is because those non-self-centered parents are requesting that the other passengers take seats which are worse than the ones that they selected at the time of purchase? It takes a lot of gall to ask people to switch to seats which are worse.

If parents buy tickets too late in terms of getting seats together, it is arrogant to expect that other passengers who were planners to move. I have offered to move if the seat change were equal or better than the one I had selected. I will not move to the back of the plane or to some middle seat because some parent did not plan accordingly.