The way things are going, there may not be a choice to fly with pre-assigned seating much longer!

That Dhacker, is something that I unfortunately think that you are 100% correct

There really is an easy remedy for this on many aircraft - just look for aircraft with double row Emergency Exit rows! Select a seat in the forward row and Viola! - no kids behind you http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif Not only this ... but no kids next to you either http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/thumbsup.gif

Of course on those flights where the EE row is only a single ... just select the row in front. You may still be seated next to a small one, but guaranteed (as per FAA regulations on Emergency Exit seating) you won't have one behind you.

GMF

dhacker - the point is that the kid splashed, I asked him to stop three times. The father called me a puta. I can translate if need be - it is a very vulgar term meaning prostitute and worse. My BF - who unfortunately was off in a hammock at the time - later told me that I should have said worse back to the man and that he was probably drunk. I would say that this is way over-reacting. I had a right to ask to not be splashed. he was way out of bounds responding the way he did. Anyway, it was an ADULT POOL in the first place. I thought that my response to the father - biting my tongue and just leaving - was quite restrained under the circumstances. You are out of line in my opinion but I don't want to start a flame war.

PS in case I am being accused of elitism, my boyfriend happens to be Mexican. Born and raised there ... and, since I have basically adopted his family as my own, by extension, I consider myself at least part Mexican at least in my heart. Anyway I note that you did apologize so ...

[This message has been edited by CozumelJen (edited 09-05-2002).]

Perhaps those of us who's feet actually touch the ground don't realize how often we move our feet inflight. If I had feet that due to the reason of my height ended up unfortunately close to someones seatback, I, even as an adult might have trouble holding them perfectly still for 5 hours so the person in front of me didnt feel the need to go postal.

Or possibly, if there were less people in the world who did things like this....



Then those with shorter legs might be able to get a bulkhead seat where there was more room to stretch legs.

I wonder how many advocates of the child free zone would be so supportive if said zone were in the back of the plane??

Even as a parent, I get frustrated with children on planes.. my own as well as others. But my "worst experiences" tend to be a product of my own attitude before boarding.

I was recently on a flight next to a 12 yr old who on a 3 hour flight had to use the bathroom about 10 times. I was annoyed to no end that I had to get up and let him out that many times, but then again..was it really his fault that his bladder was small? Or that he got stuck sitting next to the tired and hungover woman who wanted to sleep the whole flight?

I was also on a flight for 6 hours with an adult man who cleared his throat every 10 seconds through half the flight. Perhaps I should have tried to "nip that in the bud" or speak harshly to him or threaten to eat his fingers. Do any of YOU respond well to being addressed that way? Didnt think so.

Geez. How many Cokes did that kid consume for that to occur? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

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~ Glen ~ Calling all United 1K Members - please join .. www.1Kflyers.com

No flames. All I was trying to say is that IMO a bratty kid that won't stop splashing doesn't seem so serious that it should lead to violent thoughts. You held your tongue and didn't make violent threats, which is commendable, however you admit to making a very rude comment.

My other point, which I obviously did a bad job of making by using the term uptight, was that the parents may have only seen it as a American overeacting to a little childish fun. Your rude comment may have opened the door for his vulgar one. Like it or not we Americans are known for being arrogant travelers that expect everything to go our way. How was the father supposed to know your boyfriend and his family were Mexican?

However, you were there and I wasn't so they both were probably every bit as unreasonable as you described.

I am very sorry I called you uptight, I meant only to describe what his view might have been.

This thread appears to divide us into 3 groups

1. Those without kids or who travel without them (me and many others)
2. Those with kids who can keep their kids under control (most parents, most kids are good about this or their parents are good about nipping it in the bud, its the few kids from h*** with parents who are clueless and/or so self centered who created this thread)
3. Those without kids who can't or don't care to keep their kids under control (the ones who try to justify why its ok for their perfect little jimmy to kick the back of the seat in front of them, again see kids from h*** comment in #2).

BTW, good point on the row in front of the exit seat although one caveat, those seats don't usually recline.

Another point, since the diaper changing thread has come about, I've been looking (and granted my sampling is limited to CO aircraft), at planes restrooms and so far all of the CO planes (less RJ's) have had changing tables that fold down in the rest rooms

Regarding The comment about reserving bulkheads with bassinets without a kid.. hey if it works they can always move me if they need it.

dhacker: you are a gentleman! Nice post.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes!

My preferred way of dealing with, um, children whose parents don't know how best to advise them to behave in a confined area full of other people, shall we say, is to speak to the child directly, in a friendly, polite and yet firm way, and say something like "Hi, my name's Wingnut. I know you're probably as bored as I am, but I'm trying to get to sleep and I'd really appreciate it if you could try to stop kicking my seat / spitting peanuts at me / wiping your nose on my antimacasar. Do you think you could do that for me?"

I know it sounds like some dreadful "treat them as adults" line from some saccharine "how to raise your child to be a 21st century adult" selfhelp book, but they're so surprised that you're speaking to them rather than their parent, and being nice rather than telling them off that it always works for me.

There's no point speaking to the parent - if they were the sort of person who would respond well to this, it's unlikely that the situation would have arisen in the first place...

[This message has been edited by Wingnut (edited 09-08-2002).]

Unruly pax, adults or kids are something flyers have to deal with. It is part of flying and part of life unless you live in a cocoon.

How one reacts to these situations says allot about who they are and what their values are.

I travel allot with my 3 year old and get bad looks just getting on the plane with her (sheepish compliments come later when she has been a perfect little angel). Worst when we are flying in biz and first (want to generalize about people who think they are the emperors of the world, and expect, nay DEMAND, to be treated as such with little regard for what else the FA is dealing with). I have never once had someone complain to me or to an FA and my child doesn't kick or cry and I spend most of my time in flight quietly entertaining her and thus myself. Nevertheless, I would be happy to hear from a pax that I was disturbing unawares, provided of course it was in a civil manner.

I'm all for communication with the parents in a civil and appropriate manner, and the FA's, but lashing out at kids or acting like one yourself when you should know better I don't think is a reasonable solution. You also run the risk of getting arrested for assault (the sneezer/cougher in particular if they deliberately turn around and sneeze on kid after having made such a threat).

I too have dealt with parents who seemed as if they just couldn't give a **** and let their kids run riot, I too sat and seethed, but I never once dreamed of lashing out at a young child. Once I became a parent and had unruly kids about me I employed a different strategy than the sit and seethe, I now do what I can to help the parent who invariably is at the end of their tether and pretty exhausted(with or without kids you never know when you may need someone to give you a break when your are not at your best). The difference in response is truly remarkable. Not for everyone, I know, but for me infinitely better than sitting and seething. Lashing out at the parents, rather than trying the civil approach (with a smile if you can manage it), while perhaps giving momentary satisfaction is akin to giving someone the finger when they cut you off on the road, childish and only invites trouble and does nothing to accomplish your goal. Lashing out at the children is pretty much unconscionable.

If you really want results be part of the solution, and do it with as much grace and class as you can muster. Worst case, you will still encounter the very occasional person who will be intractable regardless of your best efforts but at least you will not allow them to reduce you, an adult, to the childish level of their young offender.

Nothing personal but I regard the quote below with an extremely high degree of skepticism.. as a matter of fact i find the entire comment just ruins the credibility of a very good response from your perspective.
I seriously doubt (and would be willing to be a lot) that nothing would ever be done (arrested or the threat of it) for the coughing situation... it just a'int gonna happen..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mvic:
[B]

You also run the risk of getting arrested for assault (the sneezer/cougher in particular if they deliberately turn around and sneeze on kid after having made such a threat).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dhacker:
No flames. All I was trying to say is that IMO a bratty kid that won't stop splashing doesn't seem so serious that it should lead to violent thoughts. You held your tongue and didn't make violent threats, which is commendable, however you admit to making a very rude comment.[QUOTE]

Vete (Leave, Go away) is not rude, IMO. If someone said "Vete, hijo de ... " or "Vete, cara de ver.." -- that's rude !! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

My other point, which I obviously did a bad job of making by using the term uptight, was that the parents may have only seen it as a American overeacting to a little childish fun. Your rude comment may have opened the door for his vulgar one. Like it or not we Americans are known for being arrogant travelers that expect everything to go our way. How was the father supposed to know your boyfriend and his family were Mexican?

I'm sorry, but I still yet to see what Jen said to provoke this guy to say PUTA ?????
That's uncalled for, in any language ! Jen is by the pool, reading a book in peace and all of a sudden, a kid approaches her and splashes some water on her (and TWICE). She asked the kid to leave (said vete only, which is not rude) and the parents came to his defense. Obviously, the parents are wrong here. Even though Jen is an American, con un corazon de Mexicana http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif, I too (I'm Ecuadorean) would have reacted the same way. But I would have approached it differently, because if this parent called my girlfriend a PUTA, I would have beat the crap out of him on the spot. I wouldn't care !! he should know better. You never dishonor a woman by calling her PUTA..

eperaltaotero:

CozumelJen called her own comment rude. I repeated it assuming she knows how she said it and how it came across.

What disturbs me is how quickly some FT'ers thoughts turn to violence.

dhacker,

You're right, it also does disturb me that my thoughts will turn violent. Perhaps people react differently to certain situations.

I wouldn't consider myself a violent person, but if someone comes up to my GF or me, and started to insult me, I wouldn't hesistate to strike that person.

Yeah, I could say I should act civilized and avoid any confrontation, but if someone continues to insult and provoke me, I prefer to stop him using a different option and prevent this behavior to continue.

How would other people react ?? Very interesting question..



[This message has been edited by eperaltaotero (edited 09-09-2002).]