A340 lower deck
 

I read from somewhere that some space on the lower deck of the A340 can be used by passengers. Airbus is encouraging airlines to install lavatories on the lower deck to save space. Why don't they just put more seats on the lower deck then? Can other aircrafts(eg 747, 777, 767, etc) do such things? Thanks.

Windows? Cargo? Airlines make $$$ hauling non-passenger cargo.

- Pat

[This message has been edited by Wiirachay (edited 04-27-2001).]

I still don't understand. How much do airlines make from their cargo business? I think the revenue from passengers should be more. Why can't they have some windows on the lower deck also?

The 1011 tirstar has a galley on the lower deck--with an elevator to shuttle the carts and FA's up and down. They also offered a high capacity model that could seat over 500 passengers--complete with fold out stair from the lower deck. No Airline ordered any.

Boeing and Lockhead also offered a lower lounge in the forward cargo hold on the 747/1011's, complete with observation window pointing straight down. Air cargo make too much profit for the airlines to give this serious consideration.

The flights between Chile and the US can run empty and still make a profit from the cargo in the hold.

The late PSA Airline, primarily an intra California carrier, ordered (I believe) 2 L-1011-50s that were configured with the downstairs lounge. By the time they took delivery, PSA realized that frequency was more important than equipment on the SFO-LAX trunk route.

As for cargo, airlines like LH and BR seem to love the operational advantages of the the 747-400 combi, where cargo is stacked below and behind the main passenger cabin.

But I agree, more lavs - bigger lavs - would be a plus anywhere on the airplane!

If you want photos of the mock up lounge's on the 1011 I will forward them to anyone interested.

i think that the galley on dc10s is below the pax deck- but only used by fa's

I saw a UA DC-10 (ORD-HNL) has a lift to move things to and from the lower deck. From the Airbus website, (click A330/340 and innovation), they say a lot about the use of the lower deck in their aircrafts. That made me wonder why other aircrafts of about the same size didn't mention this thing at all.

I believe that, in order for the a/c to be certified to carry pax in seats on a lower deck that can be occupied for t/o and landing, the framing of the aircraft would have to be reinforced so that it could withstand a belly landing without crushing the pax sitting on the lower deck.

The question for the airline winds up being whether the additional cost and weight of the reinforcements (plus the loss of potentially lucrative cargo space) are made up for by the increased pax that are carried.

I think LH has converted all of its 747 combis back to all pax configurations.

Greg

[This message has been edited by greg99 (edited 04-28-2001).]

Loooong ago LTU - German Airline had a
Lockheed Tristar with a bar/galley in the
lower deck.

Lower Deck
 

I Was on a LH a-340 and went in a lavatory on the lower deck

Yes Lufthansa's A346 has some lavatories down there. I like these, because they are more spacious than the "normal" ones.

Additionally, there are the Crew Rests down there and there is also an elevator to bring up the catering.

Every window compromises with the integrity of the structure. Puting in more windows would require strengthening the fuselage.

FedEx is probably the most profitable airline in the world.

AC used lower deck crew modules on the A340. Loaded through cargo door.

My memory is a bit fuzzy but there is a hatch (to the main deck) that disables the drive system, in the cargo bay, if it's left unlocked.

Is this like the breathalyzer ignition interlock system on NW aircraft? :D

There would probably be issues with evacuation paths if they opened up the lower deck to passengers.

The lower deck crew rest modules also lead to those marvellous "missing seats" in Y (..well... marvellous if you get the extra legroom so created...;))

..as the escape hatch from the module has to come up somewhere!

The downstairs bathrooms on the A346 is fun. :)

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewan...1435-thumb.jpg

That's a really nice stairway. ^

Yup was on an A340 FRA-DEN flight on Lufthansa where they had these...

Vaguely, and it's been too many years, I recall some lower deck facilities/acommodations in the old Boeing Stratocruiser (military C-97), recognizable for its "Double Bubble" fuselage, and kept around in modernized form - upper fuselage swollen) for decades as "Guppies" and "Super Guppies" in freighter service for oversized loads.

Are you kidding? Cargo is much more profitable than hauling around people:

* It doesn't need food
* It doesn't need to be cleaned-up after
* It doesn't need seats
* It doesn't need cabin heating
* It doesn't care about the IFE (or lack thereof)
* It doesn't complain about legroom
* It doesn't need toilets
* It doesn't ask the FAs for more drinks
* It doesn't care if it's a few hours late (most of the time)

etc.

KL, in fact, has 747s that are partly for people and then they've decided that using the back of the passenger deck for cargo is more profitable than fitting a couple dozen people in there.

Also, cargo doesn't complain if the pilots fly through bad weather instead of around it...

This is my understanding too, the lower deck can be used during flight, but is not certified for passenger use during takeoff and landing, and would require structural modification to make the certification.

I recall reading somewhere that back in the day, UA sometimes flew Boeing 377 Stratocruisers between LAX and SFO as turnaround flights to/from Hawaii. UA would sell seats in the lower deck lounge of the 377, which had banquette seating equipped with seat belts and the nearby bar in the lounge.

Wow, welcome back nine-year old thread!

The Hindenburg had passenger cabins on both the A Deck and the B Deck below.

Oh wow, I didn't even see that.