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Oh please. Stimpy is dead right on this. If you want a law, call your congressman and get a law passed. Until then, this is a matter of courtesy, not eminent domain of the FA involved.
My experience is that people usually respond the same way they are treated. A quiet, "Could you please hold your voice down until this is finished?" would be far more effective. If it isnt, quietly look at him until he quiets down in embarassment. If he doesnt, well, that's life. Don't give him a gold star. Bet this guy sues the daylights out of the airline. and if he does, bet he wins, too. This was an abuse. |
There was suuuuch a simple solution which (when all goes left) leaves the passenger embarassed enough not to quickly forget while not causing such a delay:
1. Stop the lecture. 2. Say in a pleasant voice: "Please excuse me. I would hate to interrupt the gentleman seating in seat XX (point him out to all the other passengers, stand next to him if necessary to make clear who´s the offender). As soon as he is done with his conversation, I will be able to finish the demonstration and we can head to Las Vegas." (if that doesn´t work, he really does need to have his A$$ hauled down to police HQ to have the message squeezed through his skull). This isn´t rocket science - I use it all the time when I work with both youths and adults and it has yet to fail me. |
At the risk of violating my own new year's resolution to avoid flame sessions, could I ever-so-politely suggest that a less offensive title for this thread might have been "Beware of FAs on a power trip" ?
Yes, we are enured to the phrase and can laugh at it sometimes. But power-tripping hard asses are usually such no matter where the moon is in its cycle http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif |
Brian and yonatan - if you read the first post again you will notice the guy was given a warning first. 2 infact.
Though I am in no way defending the FA for the actions taken. And I do think the guy was wrong in his attitude. Basically, both sides were wrong in their actions (or reactions). [This message has been edited by Baze (edited 01-09-2001).] |
If you want a law, call your congressman and get a law passed. Until then, this is a matter of courtesy, not eminent domain of the FA involved. Title 14 Chapter I Sec. 91.11 Prohibition on interference with crewmembers. No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated. [Amdt. 91-211, 54 FR 34291, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-257, 64 FR 1079, Jan. 7, 1999; 64 FR 7066, Feb. 12, 1999] The passenger was clearly in violation of the law. However, I agree that the FA overreacted and should have tried more effective motivation before resorting to the authorities... |
More of Title 14, Chapter I U.S.C. in case you care, and even if you don't http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif:
Sec. 91.519 Passenger briefing. (a) Before each takeoff the pilot in command of an airplane carrying passengers shall ensure that all passengers have been orally briefed on-- (1) Smoking: Each passenger shall be briefed on when, where, and under what conditions smoking is prohibited. This briefing shall include a statement, as appropriate, that the Federal Aviation Regulations require passenger compliance with lighted passenger information signs and no smoking placards, prohibit smoking in lavatories, and require compliance with crewmember instructions with regard to these items; (2) Use of safety belts and shoulder harnesses: Each passenger shall be briefed on when, where, and under what conditions it is necessary to have his or her safety belt and, if installed, his or her shoulder harness fastened about him or her. This briefing shall include a statement, as appropriate, that Federal Aviation Regulations require passenger compliance with the lighted passenger sign and/or crewmember instructions with regard to these items; (3) Location and means for opening the passenger entry door and emergency exits; (4) Location of survival equipment; (5) Ditching procedures and the use of flotation equipment required under Sec. 91.509 for a flight over water; and (6) The normal and emergency use of oxygen equipment installed on the airplane. (b) The oral briefing required by paragraph (a) of this section shall be given by the pilot in command or a member of the crew, but need not be given when the pilot in command determines that the passengers are familiar with the contents of the briefing. It may be supplemented by printed cards for the use of each passenger containing-- (1) A diagram of, and methods of operating, the emergency exits; and (2) Other instructions necessary for use of emergency equipment. (c) Each card used under paragraph (b) must be carried in convenient locations on the airplane for the use of each passenger and must contain information that is pertinent only to the type and model airplane on which it is used. [Dkt. No. 18334, Amdt. 91-211, 54 FR 34314, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-231, 57 FR 42672, Sept. 15, 1992] And the Federal Aviation Regulations require passenger compliance with the crewmember's instructions with regard to this duty. But, hey, I'm NOT a lawyer. I just play one at work http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif |
They should have just taken his status and FF miles away (the whole account.) No class = no status.
Geez, the FA's have it bad enough. What is 5 minutes to have some courtesy? |
The heck with the law. How does anyone ever expect extra special service, respect, a free bottle of wine and/or a free box of Godiva chocolates, if one ticks off the FA?
The guy should have been arrested for stupidity. |
Premex wrote:
The guy should have been arrested for stupidity. |
Do I think the FA overreacted when s/he threw the offending passenger off the plane? Yes. If what he was saying wasn't offensive by itself, then he's getting a harsher punishment than the offense warrants.
Would I have applauded once the offending passenger was removed? Also, yes. Air travel is uncivil enough that I encourage anything the airlines do to make it more pleasant. "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to keep two contradictory ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." - F. Scott Fitzgerald I'll bet that every other passenger on that plane listened attentively and quietly to the safety announcements on their next flights! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif |
Originally posted by Beckles: [B] But what other punishment is there? How are you going to teach someone that the safety announcements are important? Is there anyone here who thinks that safety isn't important? [B] IMHO the FA was not only out of line, but needs training in how do deal with unruly passengers (or people in general). A simple, "Sir, I'm sorry but we can't take off until I complete the safety lecture" would probably have sufficed. [This message has been edited by freefaller12k (edited 01-09-2001).] |
freefaller, you are correct. In fact, safety announcements are proven to have little effect on safety when there is actually a problem. A recent decompression showed that very few people knew what to do with their oxygen masks despite all those safety announcements. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
And svpii, as for my title being offensive, it was calculated to do just that. |
Do I just fly on strange routes, at strange times, or why do I notice that most Pax dont pay any attention to the FA? I myself was a little surprised by the FA since I have seen many people talk without consequence. I normally look up out of respect, but normally dont watch the briefing if they have it on video, just no point, as Stimpy mentioned its more of a formality than something that can save your life. That being said, what this guy did was very rude and unjustified, but shouldnt be blown out of proportion just because he did it during the safety anouncement.
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In my opinion, the safety briefing is only slightly more valuable than the "security" questions asked at check-in. Both are intended to comfort people but actually accomplish little or nothing. They merely waste the time of frequent travelers like most of us on this board. (That's not to suggest that MY time is particularly valuable; it isn't, but I still don't like to waste it.)
Bruce |
That flight attendant can take her safety announcement and shove it in her vomit bag.
I have had enough of flight attendants "here primarily for (my) safety." Give me a flight attendant primarily dedicated to providing a truly first class service, with safety in mind. Safety is important, don't get me wrong, but it serves as an excuse for poor service far too often. I do my best to respect the flight attendant, I hope (s)he will do the best to keep me comfortable and safe. |
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