Security Questions
Dec 13, 2000 | 7:11 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: stockholm - AA plat, KLM RW (Thanks Flyertalk !),Marriott Plat
Posts: 79
Security Questions
i read today that news report from "newsairwise.com"
"A passenger flight to Miami was delayed for more than seven hours yesterday after the discovery of
playing cards with Arabic writing in a toilet triggered a security alert.
The British Airways Boeing 747, with 329 passengers on board, had been given the all-clear after being
swept by security staff at Heathrow's Terminal 3 when a crew member discovered the cards.
The jet had been moved from its stand when the captain decided to postpone the flight.
The cards were later found to feature a calendar written in Arabic.
"The flight was delayed because some Arabic cards were found in the rear toilet and that was after the
aircraft had been fully searched and security cleared," a BA spokeswoman said.
"The only possibility was that a passenger had left it there and you do not take chances.
--------------------------
Some questions i asked myself
- Why a card game with arabic can delay a commercial flight ?
Does the western in general, angloamerican in particular, mistrust towards the arabic world reachs that point ?. I don't think a card game with hebraic or chinese would have started the same actions.
- It reminded me an AA flight last year ARN-ORD, where i was asked with suspicion, because of a stamp of Egypt on my passport, if i had still friends overthere (sic!!).The AA office in stockholm still remembers my angry call i gave them on the return...
- More generally, could someone knowing well the FAA rules indicate me why all passengers on a US carrier coming from Europe or Latin America are "cooked" by security guards 2 or 3 times, especially if you are not American, but when leaving US, they hardly ask you if you packed yourself your stuff ????
I was told once that increased security was necessary in Europe because being a transfer point between MiddleEast and North America.
What about Latin America, or US itself ??(especially with the millions of maniacs carrying a gun for no special reason)
"A passenger flight to Miami was delayed for more than seven hours yesterday after the discovery of
playing cards with Arabic writing in a toilet triggered a security alert.
The British Airways Boeing 747, with 329 passengers on board, had been given the all-clear after being
swept by security staff at Heathrow's Terminal 3 when a crew member discovered the cards.
The jet had been moved from its stand when the captain decided to postpone the flight.
The cards were later found to feature a calendar written in Arabic.
"The flight was delayed because some Arabic cards were found in the rear toilet and that was after the
aircraft had been fully searched and security cleared," a BA spokeswoman said.
"The only possibility was that a passenger had left it there and you do not take chances.
--------------------------
Some questions i asked myself
- Why a card game with arabic can delay a commercial flight ?
Does the western in general, angloamerican in particular, mistrust towards the arabic world reachs that point ?. I don't think a card game with hebraic or chinese would have started the same actions.
- It reminded me an AA flight last year ARN-ORD, where i was asked with suspicion, because of a stamp of Egypt on my passport, if i had still friends overthere (sic!!).The AA office in stockholm still remembers my angry call i gave them on the return...
- More generally, could someone knowing well the FAA rules indicate me why all passengers on a US carrier coming from Europe or Latin America are "cooked" by security guards 2 or 3 times, especially if you are not American, but when leaving US, they hardly ask you if you packed yourself your stuff ????
I was told once that increased security was necessary in Europe because being a transfer point between MiddleEast and North America.
What about Latin America, or US itself ??(especially with the millions of maniacs carrying a gun for no special reason)
Dec 13, 2000 | 7:15 pm
#2
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Niceville, FL, USA
Posts: 2,792
Dear Frog:
Actually the answers to your questions are easily taken care of...
Wm. F. Shakespeare said it all in one of his play titles: "Much Ado About Nothing."
It is all about appearances, NOT about safety. You get enough action going, add some spice and salsa, touch off the fireworks, and hey: Who AIN'T gonna be impressed by your efforts?
Of course, to address what I think is your gut-level, underlying concern...and I apoligise in advance if I misinterpreted you...the things you mentioned have nothing, repeat nothing, to do with air travel safety. In my business, there is a term called vaporware...a promised "killer computer app" that never, somehow, materializes. Well, we have the same thing with the so-called "airport security." It is vapor. The only thing that works is the metal detector and the explosives detectors. And they only keep out the amateurs, not anyone serious about commiting mayhem on or to a plane.
Actually the answers to your questions are easily taken care of...
Wm. F. Shakespeare said it all in one of his play titles: "Much Ado About Nothing."
It is all about appearances, NOT about safety. You get enough action going, add some spice and salsa, touch off the fireworks, and hey: Who AIN'T gonna be impressed by your efforts?
Of course, to address what I think is your gut-level, underlying concern...and I apoligise in advance if I misinterpreted you...the things you mentioned have nothing, repeat nothing, to do with air travel safety. In my business, there is a term called vaporware...a promised "killer computer app" that never, somehow, materializes. Well, we have the same thing with the so-called "airport security." It is vapor. The only thing that works is the metal detector and the explosives detectors. And they only keep out the amateurs, not anyone serious about commiting mayhem on or to a plane.
Dec 16, 2000 | 12:05 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1.050MM, PersonalCar 0.275MM
Posts: 1,720
- More generally, could someone knowing well the FAA rules indicate me why all passengers on a US carrier coming from Europe or Latin America are "cooked" by security guards 2 or 3 times, especially if you are not American, but when leaving US, they hardly ask you if you packed yourself your stuff ????
Dec 16, 2000 | 10:18 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
As a very frequent flyer, I often volunteer my answers in advance to the security questions, just to save time (for myself and the check-in agent). Usually, the agent will laugh and say something like, "You've done this before, obviously." All very friendly.
Occasionally, I get some lunatic who insists that the answers are valid ONLY if the airline gets to ask the questions first! This is completely absurd, of course, and not required by any government rule. The airline has to obtain the information, but getting it voluntarily is pefectly OK.
This problem has occurred most often with Delta employees at DC National Airport. The staff there either truly believe that my voluntary disclosures don't count OR they enjoy being gigantic pains in the a**. On at least two occasions, I had to get supervisors to check me in because the original agents refused to deal with me after debating this issue.
Of course, the questions are nonsense in the first place. They provide security only for the airlines, who prevent passenger-switiching on nonrefundable tickets.
Bruce
Occasionally, I get some lunatic who insists that the answers are valid ONLY if the airline gets to ask the questions first! This is completely absurd, of course, and not required by any government rule. The airline has to obtain the information, but getting it voluntarily is pefectly OK.
This problem has occurred most often with Delta employees at DC National Airport. The staff there either truly believe that my voluntary disclosures don't count OR they enjoy being gigantic pains in the a**. On at least two occasions, I had to get supervisors to check me in because the original agents refused to deal with me after debating this issue.
Of course, the questions are nonsense in the first place. They provide security only for the airlines, who prevent passenger-switiching on nonrefundable tickets.
Bruce
Dec 16, 2000 | 11:40 pm
#5
Join Date: May 1999
Location: New York City
Programs: UA MM-1P, Hilton Life Diamond, Marriot Life Gold, ICH Spire
Posts: 4,080
Absolutely correct, bdschobel!
As I've noted before, people forget that the picture-ID requirement was briefly required by the Government during a security alert some years ago, but when the requirement was rescinded, the airlines kept it going because it helped their ability to keep people from switching tickets, which is NOT illegal, but contrary to their rules.
To this day, most airline personnel will inaccurately tell you it is a government requirement. Most believe it, I suppose, but it just isn't true.
(The above comments apply only to U.S. domestic travel.)
As I've noted before, people forget that the picture-ID requirement was briefly required by the Government during a security alert some years ago, but when the requirement was rescinded, the airlines kept it going because it helped their ability to keep people from switching tickets, which is NOT illegal, but contrary to their rules.
To this day, most airline personnel will inaccurately tell you it is a government requirement. Most believe it, I suppose, but it just isn't true.
(The above comments apply only to U.S. domestic travel.)
Dec 18, 2000 | 4:04 am
#6
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 1,442
I thought that the security checks whereby you had to be vetted before being allowed to check in had been done away with? Am I wrong?
I suppose that post-Locherbie anything that it is out of place will raise pulses. I suppose that despite the inconvenience, I would rather that there was security. Have any of you ever been through metal detectors at the airport (which is an open invitation to having one's baggage stolen) and really wondered about the capability of the people working there. Have you, ever found subsequently found that quite inadvertantly you had an item (mobile phone) about you that should have set the thing off and it didn't. Fills you with confidence doesn't it?!
I suppose that post-Locherbie anything that it is out of place will raise pulses. I suppose that despite the inconvenience, I would rather that there was security. Have any of you ever been through metal detectors at the airport (which is an open invitation to having one's baggage stolen) and really wondered about the capability of the people working there. Have you, ever found subsequently found that quite inadvertantly you had an item (mobile phone) about you that should have set the thing off and it didn't. Fills you with confidence doesn't it?!