An Onboard Etiquette Question
 

An etiquette question for you FFers out there:

On a recent coast-to-coast (5 hours plus) flight in First Class, I was snug as a bug in a rug in my long-ago selected seat, when at the last minute a couple came aboard (I had seen them earlier at the podium inquiring about their upgrade waitlist position). They asked if I wouldn't mind moving up to take one of their bulkhead seats so that they could sit together. I sort of balked saying "I really prefer this seat" but he came back with a convincing plea and I switched.

I regretted it the rest of the flight. It was, as I said, a bulkhead seat on a A319 with very little legroom (actually less leg "stretch" room than any Coach seat would have). It was uncomfortable and I didn't even have the storage space to put my stuff in the seat back pockets and under the seat in front of me.

My instinct was to graciously give up my seat so they could sit together. But frankly, afterwards I felt cheated and was upset at myself for giving up my comfy seat for this bulkhead one. I've switched many times in the past for folks, but it was always for a "like" seat that I found perfectly acceptable.

Should I have "stuck by my guns" and just told them "Sorry, but no" and endured possible evil glances the rest of the flight? I mean, there was a noticeable difference in seat quality IMHO.

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 08-16-2000).]

Did you pay the First Class fare? (you did say you selected the seat a long time ago). If so, I say you shouldn't feel bad at all, since they didn't pay a First Class fare.

I may be flamed heavily for this, but...

I see any moving around the cabin after boarding as doing each other a favor. The other person may have a good-sounding reason to want to change seats, but so do you (the bulk head gives you less leg room and you may want/have to sleep to be prepared for a meeting at your arrival. It all depends. I can't see that anyone has an obligation to switch seats.

With that said, I would not have changed under the circumstances.

/Pete

(those spelling errors again)

[This message has been edited by L-1011 (edited 08-16-2000).]

I am very particular about my F/C seating. So if I get my favorite seat that I would normally want and someone asks to change then I simply say " no thnks, I really prefer this seat." I don't do Bulkheads at all unless it is Buz class on CO and that is the only bulkhead I will sit in for the flight. I see no problem in denying to switch to a bulkhead seat cause they do have advantages and disadvantages. Futhermore, I hate to feel this way but they are in F/C and they should be happy with any seat since it is an upgrade otherwise they can be in coach together and I am sure two people would switch with them then. I have been given bulkheads at the last minute and I took them without hesitation if I wanted to get home. You shouldn't feel bad for saying no.

I am all for being considerate and have moved countless times for the same reason (though was never snug as a bug in a rug in First but more like tight as a sardine in a squashed can in coach http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif )but unless they were, say, on their honeymoon, for example, I think you went above and beyond Premex. Still good for you for being so generous, not enough of that considerate attitude going around these days (FT excepted ofcourse http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ). Next time, in a similar situation, maybe the couple could sit in the bulkhead seats together (I assume there are two of them) and the bulk head pax can sit in their more comfy chair.

I disagree -- put yourself in the other position. You and your significant other are tarvelling on your long awaited trip. You book your tickets (i dont care -- purchased or upgraded) and find you cant sit next to each other. You think, no problem, we will ask. Lo and behold -- noone is willing to switch. To me, thats a rotten start to a long awaited trip.

Perfect example -- on my flight from BOS to LAX on AA in business class. I had my nice, comfy bulkhead business class seat. Couple boards the plane -- one next to me, one several rows back. Ask the person several rows back to swtich -- SINCE IT WAS THEIR HONEYMOON -- and she said no. Even though the bulkhead is my favorite seat -- I switched. They thanked me profusely. They even made sure they waited when they got off the plane to say thanks. (during the flight, they got to chat and play chess).

To me -- switch is a nice thing.

--Jim

I think it was very kind of you, and because you made two people happy, you did a good thing. Only you can say whether you did the right thing - if being nice to someone else is worth more to you than your comfort for the flight, then you did.

[This message has been edited by james (edited 08-16-2000).]

IMHO, switching seats in a situation like that is 100% voluntary. Would it kill you to accomodate their request? No. Would it kill them to sit apart for a few hours? No. It's appropriate for them to politely ask, and its equally appropriate for you to politely decline. :-)

------------------
Travel is a powerful antidote to contemporary American arrogance.

I have absolutlely no problem switching seats if it is not going to cause me to be uncomfortable.

If I really do not want to switch, I will quietly tell the person to try the passenger seated in the seat next to the other companion. If the other passenger says yes, I am off the hook. If they say no, I will usually switch.

The only time I will not switch, is if I will be switching to a "Short" Bulkhead row on a long flight. I am 6' tall and cannot have my legs "Scrunched-up" on a long haul flight. I will explain this is the reason and endure any angry stares that come my way.

Maybe the question should be "why are there uncomfortable First Class seats"?

You're a nice guy, PremEx. I would probably do the same thing.

My wife & I never ask anyone to move so we can sit together (since we are at different elite levels, we always seem to be in different rows). In fact, I think my wife prefers to sit elsewhere...

Another reason I have for not feeling bad for refusing to give up a good seat is this: if I were in the couple's shoes (getting an upgrade at the last minute), and the gate agent told me there were no contiguous seats, I would decline the upgrade (if contiguous seats were available in coach). If the agent volunteered to board the plane and ask people to changes seats, I wouldn't stop him/her. But I wouldn't board the aircraft and try to do this myself (especially in First), knowing that seats are always assigned before you board the plane (except Southwest, but then there's no First Class, either).

My opinion on this is that when you're flying with someone, it should not be a big deal to choose between contiguous coach seats or separated first class seats.

To generalize, why should it be that when person A asks person B to accept an inferior situation in order to please person A, person B should be made to feel obligated to help out person A? In other words, the very last person to ask for an exchange (due to good planning) should get bottom of the barrel?

No one should ever feel compelled or obligated to give up their seat for the sake of a couple travelling together who did not have the priveledge, or who did not take the time to arrive/book early enough to secure seats together in J/C. I will always try and accomodate any seating request but not at the expense of another customer. If the seat assigned customer does not agree to a seat swap then I respect that as their right.

I always find it fascinating to observe couples who go to great lengths, appealing to the crew or to fellow travellers playing on their sympathies, for the purpose of securing seats side by side. Then, after the shuffle has been done, to further observe this same couple bury themselves individually in newspapers, novels, or magazines or catch them snoozing the aflight time away. Any or all of these singular activities are indulged in without the pair exchanging two words for the duration of the flight. It must have some relationship to the stereotype of a couple sitting across from each other, morning after morning at the kitchen table; reading the same types of material over coffee and not exchanging words or conducting conversation. Routine - the curse of the regimented life sytle. The objective seems to be just sharing space in close proximity to each other. This conduct has always been intriguing to me. If someone has insight into why this seems to be a common pattern outside of what has been speculated please enlighten me.

I will sympathize and try harder to fulfill this request if the couple involved are on their honeymoon, need comfort from each other due to a recent personal tragedy that instigated their travel or to help a couple where one of the pair need that close contact because they are a nervous flyer. For the remainder of travelling couples that find themselves separated in the cabin look at it as an opportunity to meet and "talk" with new people.

Very similar thing happend to me recently. The next time, two days later, I refused to move. They wanted to take my 1B and move me to 5A (757). The FA got really cra**y with me. But ,the guy in 5B would not move either. They finally found a row where they could sit together. I don't mind moving for a "like" seat though. 4B to 5B for example (757). Although I always tell the FA's I moved so they can ask me for my meal first. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I tend to agree with JSrombough.

If this was a last minute U/G for the couple, they should have understood that they may not be able to sit together.

I too have my favorite F & Y seats, and have given them up more times than not when asked. I'm not sure if I would be so willing to give up a seat to a far less comfortable one, icy stares or not.

Jackie & I got a last minute U/G on a flight last fall & knew we would sit apart...but our feeling was 'it was more comfortable' than sitting in Y, apart or not.

PremEx, you did the chivalrous thing, but I'm not sure I'd do the same thing, especially on a long transcon.

Under the circumstances you mentioned, I would not have given up my seat. It was a request, nothing more, nothing less. All else being equal, I probably would have gathered up my personal belongings and relocated to their comparable seat in an effort to accommodate their request. I've done it quite a few times over the years. However, this was not the case. There are indeed differences among various seating locations, yes, even up front! Meal selection, leg room and lavatory or galley traffic to mention a few. I feel it was probably within reason for them to ask and certainly your prerogative to accept or decline. Bottom line, it's your seat, you don't need a reason!

Besides, you are a Million Miler and you have rights, even when you're not on United! As I recall, the training manuals of all the major carriers identify you, PremEx, (via portrait with cigar in hand) as Thee Esteemed Frequent Flyer Of The Last Millenium with diplomatic immunity, executive privilege and even bumping rights over any United "Employee Class" Passenger. Now that's real clout! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by MRLIMO (edited 08-16-2000).]

I think I can speak from both sides of the issue, as I fly alone 95% of the time and am often asked to switch seats so friends or couples can sit together. Because I fly so often, I certainly have my favorite seats that I request regularly and early. But if the switch isn't to a majorly deficient seat, I'm happy to make the switch. Don't ask me to move from my bulkhead window in J on a 777 to a middle seat, but otherwise I try to be flexible! Something I learned the hard way was to ask where the other person is sitting before agreeing to the switch!

The 5% of the time when I'm flying with my partner, it's very important for us to sit together. Not so we can engage in scintillating conversation the entire flight, but because we're happier and more comfortable next to each other. Yes, even when one of us is listening to CDs and the other is watching a movie! And on those few occasions when our seat assignments aren't together because of a last minute upgrade or some other reason, I have no problems asking a fellow passenger if they might be willing to trade with us. This happened twice on our recent trip to Europe. One woman declined to switch because she was in her favorite seat, which I understood and had no problem with. I'm happy to say that the Special Services rep intervened and found another passenger willing to move for us, an act that was above and beyond the call of duty. On another flight, the man we asked didn't even hesitate to trade.

I guess my point is, there's nothing wrong with asking, and there's nothing wrong with declining. Unless you've got a pretty good reason for not switching, I think it's a small favor to do for someone. But if you ask and get a no, you should accept the response politely and go back to your seat!

on our trip to LA, my husband was in first, i was in coach (i let him sit in first, always! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif)... the gentleman (probably an FTer) sitting next to him, upon learning the situation, came over to coach, very politely and kindly offered his seat to me, which i thankfully declined....
to date, i still dont know if he wanted to switch seats because of my chatty husband, whom i sometimes do not mind to be apart from (at least for a few hours...) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by belle3388 (edited 08-16-2000).]

belle3388, on several occassions after overhearing some special circumstances, I have gladly given up my front seat for coach. Always accepted and graciously appreciated. A couple times, two of us gave up our front seats. No regrets!

PremEx, you were very kind to change seats. I'm not sure if I would have given up my seat, and I would not have asked if I was the other person in the same situation. Etiquette goes both ways.

Instead, if I were asking, I would offer the other person in bulkhead the opportunity to change seats with the lady sitting next to PremEx, moving that person to a seat with more legroom, and still be able to sit together as a couple in bulkhead. If I were in PremEx's situation I would have suggested the same to the couple and explain to them why the other person may be more willing to trade.

Unfortunately, I've only been in cases where I enter the aircraft (often happens on the UX EMB-120) to find a couple sitting in the exit row, occupying my assigned seat. They explain that they would prefer to sit together. There are plenty of other rows to sit together, so the true reason they would not say is they wanted more legroom. Well, in this case I just whip out my boarding pass and insist on my assigned seat. Its interesting how often the husband/boyfriend no longer wants to sit with his wife/girlfriend and opt to stay put in exit row.

I once asked a lady if she would mind moving from the first row of First Class to the last row.

She thought a moment and said OK.

The flight Att. said "I can't beleive you asked Joan Lunden (then of Good Morning America)to move !"

Beleive me if I had known it was her...I would never have asked...it would have been a fun flight sitting next to her.

Like you, I'd have moved as I've done in the past, and like you, I'd have possibly had some slight misgivings, and like you, I'd have felt good about helping sombody out by doing a real small favor! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Incidentally, I've noticed that many folks simply do not want to move - period! Only once was I a bit perturbed over this when several years ago after a plane change (UA, SFO-HNL), it ended up costing me a FC seat when I decided that I'd move back to economy so that a girl friend and I could sit together! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

I apply the same rule to this situation that I do to life in general. I think we're supposed to help each other wherever reasonably possible, and what's a little inconvenience, especially when I'm just glad to have a big seat.

That being said, I do agree wholeheartedly with jAAck - find out where they are sitting first. There is a difference between a little inconvenience and complete discomfort, and I'm not going to make myself miserable so they can sit together.

Therefore, I treat each situation as a unique situation, and allow myself to make a decision either way, and if I am doing the asking, I ask in a way that does not make the other person feel obligated to switch.

Let me add to my story:

They did ask the only other solo in the window bulkhead to switch (to the seat next to me) and he just shot them a short "Yes, I would mind." So I knew I was their only hope.

To add discomfort to my new bulkhead seat, this same guy was one of those pax that "takes over" the common area between seats and on the floor. I was constantly asking him to move his stuff from my armrest, and he would just grumble. He used the floor in front of him (and me) as his personal trash can. It was littered with magazines and newspapers etc. which I kept shoving back to his side with my feet. I finally said something to him and he just scowled at me over his reading glasses. A real jerk. And he was wearing nothing but a old T-Shirt and swimming trunks. Bare footed the whole flight. I checked the manifest and he was a United Premier Executive. No idea if he was revenue or upgraded.

Anyway, thanks for the imput everyone. Next time I think I will just give a very polite explaination of my preferance for my current seat and leave it like that.

Also, someone asked if I was flying on a revenue First Class ticket. No, I was not. But my seat had been confirmed far ahead using a comfirmable upgrade certificate.

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 08-16-2000).]

however, i am sure any one of us FTers would no doubt move in a second for a mother and her children to be seated next to each other.... right? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

mrlimo, that is extraordinarily nice of you in doing so, but i would feel guilty and uncomfortable (the whole trip) to trade my coach with other’s first without any special circumstances and justification....

(would probably have kept going back to check up on how you were doing, until you gave up and traded back with me... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif)

When I am asked to move and have no desire to do so, I simply grab the hand of my seatmate, smile seductively, at the poor unsuspecting stranger sitting next to me and say, "We too are way too passionately in love and celebrating our first illicit weekend alone together. I am sure you will understand." http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif

Wow have I ever made a lot of really good friends this way. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Seatmates, not rejectees.

But in my case, I would not have been asked to move if I had any seatmate.

We just flew back from Reno with a last minute upgrade to FC and my husband said he would ask the person sitting next to me if he would mind changing. I NEVER would have asked. But it was only a one hour flight.

On a 5+ hour flight I would have said no (and have in the past). When I've said no it was usually because I was in the aisle seat and any other place in coach is very uncomfortable. While I felt bad for saying no, I felt good at having the seat I chose a while back.

I was in this position recently and I said "no, sorry." I have changed seats lots of times when it was not a net loss to me, but in this situation someone wanted me to take an undesirable window seat and I wanted the aisle and I stuck to my guns.

The crummy thing about this is that we shouldn't feel the least bit guilty (but I did, a bit). But I am glad I didn't move, because I don't like window seats except during daylight flights when the striking view is worth the aggravation of crawling over a seat mate to use the restroom...

I have my doubts on that score belle3388, I have detected a decidedly anti child flavor amongst many FT posts. It seems that all children are lumped together with the ones that are not being properly supervised by considerate parents (as if it is ever the child's fault anyway). Then again, these same people probably wouldn't want to be sitting next to the child anyway so would move but for different reasons than those that motivated our good Premex.

Personally, you did the right thing BIG BRUDDAR PremEx, and the Frequent Flyer gods will award you soon for htat.

I too would have moved until I realized a very uncomfortable hour later that I was on an A-310.

Maybe what could be done is if you can explain that you need that seat for your own comfort.

On smaller planes, I normally get found first to move. I say "I would really prefer to sit here because of my bad legs and back but if you can't get anyone else then I'll move."

BIG BRUDDAR I'm sending you soem extra positive cat vibes so your NEXT flight you get the ultimate most comfortable seat.

Punki - that is a good one - reminds me of someone I used to work for http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

On a flight from Boston to Zurich i was alone and quite comfortable in my C class seat. I had had a long day and since the flight was late I was starting to fall asleep when a lady asked me id she could switch with me to sit next to her 6 yearold son having sympathy for such requests I moved back 3 rows and started to read a magazine when I noticed a man, her husband take the seat that next to her. I wasnt mad just sort of laughed at the fact that this person could tell where i was willing to sacrifice my precious 11B on SR. The next morning we arrived in ZRH and deplaned. I went to the travelclub lounge and relaxed before my connecting flight and ran into that same couple. They thanked me again and I was polite. On my onward flight to Geneva (SR A320) I got into my aisle seat on the full flight ( 3 by 3) and here comes the lady asking if I will move to a middle seat so she can sit with her 6yearold son. I, said well since its a 20 minute flight Im sure your son will be okay by himselve and she walked to seat. I guess im not too memorable

Chess? ON THEIR HONEYMOON? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Loved the 6 year old boy story. Reminds me of the time I gave a well dressed man $30. for gasoline after a sob story and he drove off waving at me without buying one drop of gas. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Punki, how come I never get to sit next to you??!!
And on the topic, when traveling with my partner, we don't take the upgrade if we cannot sit together. She doesn't mind coach and I would rather sit next to her in coach than anyone else in first class.

I never ask people to move, but I will move if asked, so long as it's to a comparable seat. Last time my wife and I flew CVG-LAX, she boarded in First while I stuck around waiting to clear.

After I finally boarded, I stowed my stuff in the overhead and then walked up to talk to my wife in her aisle seat. When I walked back to my seat, also an aisle, the man in the window seat asked if she would like to trade with him so she and I could sit together.

Seems he wanted the aisle seat if he could get it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

We (wife and 2 kids) were flying from LAX to HNL in coach. We were in the center section (5 seats) which I specifically booked as OOXOO, so no one was more than 1 seat from the aisle.

Along comes the unfortunate traveler who got assigned the middle seat. Unfortunately for her, she allowed her exaperation to show. She rudely climbed in and, giving dirty looks to my children, threw open her newspaper. After about 10 minutes she turns to my wife and says "Wouldn't you all rather sit together?" (Meaning she would get one of the two aisles.)

Given her nasty attitude (even after 10 minutes, when she asked the question, it wasn't in a polite tone of voice) we told her "No thank you". So she sat in the middle for 5 hours. If, instead, she had said "hello" and been nice to the kids, she could have had an aisle seat.

Are you sure she was the one with the nasty attitude?

I don't think her look of exasperation was personal. I would also hate the seat in the middle seat, especially if I were caught in someone else's family row.

i had a couple ask me to switch seats with them on a flight from hel-tll(tallinn, estonia). the flight is 20 min long. please people, get real!! there will come a day that they'll be crying for that 20 min of separation!!