Seizing control of the window shades
 

Here's a new one (for me.) Recent flight on a 757 UA LAX-IAD I sat next to a man who tried to cajole me into taking his window seat (I had aisle). I politely refused. So whether in retribution or unconsciously ignoring my needs, he shuts both shades (while we were still at the gate at LAX) and had them closed the entire flight, including the bright and sunny portion.

I could have said something to him, but I wonder what you think:

Does the window seat mean you have total control over the shades? Is compromise possible? Will Betty really marry Fred (uh...just kidding)

I have never had a problem with this before. Most pax ask, and I've been politely asked to shut windows due to movies, the sun directly blaring in, etc, and I've generally complied.

What say you? Who controls dem shades?

He could have been afraid or nervous to fly and did not want to gaze out over the sights at 37,000.

The only time I will ask that someone shut the shades is during a lightning storm.

I don't think they belong to anyone. I think that the 2 or 3 people in a row can just come to an agreement if there is problem or concern.

Interesting observation WebCrawler.

That was my first reaction as well.

Agreed. He also could have been avoiding the heat you sometimes get from the windows. Or he could have been sensitive to light for some reason.

But, to answer your question, I don't think the airlines have any written policy on who controls the window shade. But if I were asked for my vote, I would say it belongs to the window seat passenger. But I would hope it would be a consensus of the wishes of the seatmates.

Ultimatly, members of the cabin crew do have the authority to control any activity or dispute within the cabin as it relates to aircraft equipment and it's use.

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 08-05-2000).]

Generally speaking, I think the window seat should have control of the window shade, just as the person with the aisle seat gets to extend his/her leg into the aisle. On the other hand, I am usually happy to comply with any requests from my neighbors. The only exceptions to who controls the shade are during takeoff/landing (up), movies (down), and when the pilot says "if you look over the left/right side, you'll see..." (up). At other times, as others have mentioned, I think it is unfair to the window-seat occupant to keep the shade up, especially if the sun is glaring.

Who controls the window shade?

When I sit in the window seat, I do.
When I sit in the window seat and my wife sits in the aisle seat, she does.

What? Those are the best. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

My all-time favorite was on an ABQ-DEN flight, as soon as we got past the Sandia mountains: cloud-to-cloud flashes every second, and several intense ground strikes every minute for something like 20 minutes.

The next best was sitting on the tarmac at ORD; we had just left the gate, and the pilot came on the P.A. and said there'd be a brief delay (and yes, we could turn our cell phones on and start yakking). About five minutes later the show began.

And I had window seats both times!

I agree. Twenty years ago I was flying MIA-STT in clear air and we flew over some Bahama type islands at 35,000 feet that had thunder clouds over them at about 10,000 feet.

What a spectacle to see the lightning bolts shooting to earth miles below!

When I fly, I insist on a window seat (with the shade up of course). If I can't get a plane without in-flight entertainment (those choices are getting more rare), I still keep the window shade up during the movie. No problems with that so far.

Geez, if I wanted to see a movie, I would go to a movie theater, not an airport. Can't anyone read anymore?

Interesting topic and I would agree with most that if I had a window seat, which is my preference, if asked by a seatmate, I would comply with thier wishes.

Another, similar topic can be that of the air valves, I'm unsure of thier real name. I was on a flight from DFW to IAD yesterday that many pax found to be too cold for thier comfort. I felt the opposite and had by air blower on, as did the pax in the seat across from me. After the FA discovered that there were no more blankets, the pax in the seat in front of me reached over her seat and turned off all three air blowers and asked the woman next to her to do the same, although she did not comply.

I think in this case it's a little more clear, since there are usually 2-3 air blowers in a row, one for each passenger, but was it right for her to expect others to turn them off simply because she was cold and all the blankets were taken?

I tend to think it is up to the window passenger to control it. Those few times I get stuck with a window seat, I try to be considerate of my fellow passenger. If it is sunny, I keep the shade down a bit, but no more than I can look out.

/Pete

I hate it when someone reads over my shoulder when I type http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I was going to add that some FA's specifically points out that the shades have to be up during take-off and landing. What is the purpose of this and why isn't it announced every time?

/Pete

One reason could be that the cabin is supposed to be in the ambient light for the time of day at t/o and landing - so if there is any need for evacuation the passenegers don't have to adjust (their eyes). As I understand it, that is also why the cabin is darkened for a take-off or landing at night.

Without being too grim, I thought the shades were up on t/o and landing so the emergency services could see into the cabin if necessary. Sorry a horrible thought, but runs through my mind each time. Anybody able to give an explanation from qualified experience ? In fact how many of our FT'ers are current/former crew ?

Interesting Point Graeham/GK

ON some flights the F-A's come around and tell the passengers NOT to lower the shades and like you said for safety reasons.

I find this expecially on the transcoms and the flights over water.

Once the flights take off, the captain says you can lower the shades if you wish.

One thing I wish a passenger would do is ASK me if I want the shade lowered. Sometimes I would like especially if it's too sunny.

Once I politely asked if I could lower the shade and the woman said "Well I want it open and it's my seat."

She put shades on and went to sleep. I was afraid to lean over and close the shade so I had to work with sunglasses on the whole flight. Fear of AIR RAGE.

Not quite, but still grim. Should there be an accident and subsequent fire, the crew evacuating can see outside and judge which exits are unusable. This is a result of an accident/evac which occurred about 5 years ago at JFK. Textbook evac, total hull loss, minimal injuries.

I think the shades up (during landing/takeoff) is a security precaution. In case of a mishap, it would be nice to know what the situation outside is (whether there is a fire, water etc.) without struggling to get the shades up.

On the issue of whose right it is: I often try to get some sleep on long flights and the open shades with their glare are a big pain. Most of the time people are nice enough to pull the shaded down. However I have had the case of people who are reading a book who refuse to letgo of the natural light, even though the overhead reading light would serve their purpose well. Talk about concern for their fellow travellers. Also the glare from the shades makes watching the in-flight movie impossible and tough on the eyes. I saw a post above about "if you want to watch a movie go to a theatre". I could not fathom why someone has to be so aggressive about the shade. After all, the inflight entertainment is part of the airplance experience (or whatever is left of it); please do not take that away! On some flights I have seen the FAs requesting the passengers to get the shades half the way down to reduce the glare for the passengers interested in sleeping/watching the movie. But even there I have seen holdouts. I try to get a window seat so I am in control of the shade most of the time, but I wonder why some passengers have to be so inconsiderate and aggressive about the shade. Is it claustrophobia??

An airplane is not the only place one can watch a movie. However, an airplane is the ONLY place one can see the ground from 35,000 feet in the air.

Re using natural light vs. reading light for one who wants to read and another who wants to sleep -- isn't it easier to sleep with natural light coming through the window rather than an artificial light from directly above?

I agree with JSrombough on this 100% - I love looking out the window and generally keep the shade halfway up even if they're showing a movie: nobody's complained yet - people probably see the spirit of compromise in my actions. Also, over the breadbasket and the Great Basin I'll shut it, just taking an occasional peek out.

It sure is amazing at the territorial aspects of humans are on a plane! or off for that matter.

[This message has been edited by ROADRUNNER (edited 08-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by ROADRUNNER (edited 08-08-2000).]

When the Sun is glaring in past the window seat and into the eyes of the other passengers, it should be down! Regardless if the Shade Manager is reading or not!

I don't mind reaching OVER and giving the shade a push down!

It's nice to have the shades down during 6am flights without a movie - many passengers try to get some shuteye during these flights.

I don't like to lower the shades during the day when there is a nice view, but I will compromise for others even if I have the window seat.

I usually like to read rather than watch videos or movies. I find the overhead lights quite dim for reading. Sometimes the seats in J or F will have an extra light on a gooseneck that helps, but still, for my eyes, the window lighting is really helpful. So when I want to read and others want to watch video/movie, we have to compromise, but I wouldn't impose my entire will on someone (ie shades all the way up when they want to watch the movie).

hmmm, i always thought that during the movies, it is compulsory to have the shades down? (because it is publicly announced, like fasten your seatbelt, return to your seat, smoking prohibited...etc. etc.?)

although i normally do not watch the movies, i do pull the shades down as soon as they start...

belle .. many are the times I have heard the pa boom "we are about the run the movie now and would appreciate passengers closing the window shades as a courtesy to fellow passengers", so it still happens.

Now with personal screens in F and C, indeed coach on many airlines, those itty bitty screens are pretty hopeless with full sun on them, and thus shades being closed makes sense.

Same with laptop computer use .. try squinting at a screen with full sun on it.

You get middle or aisle seat you really have to use common sense with the window sitter, altough like Catman I've had a few times when that person was gonna do their thing no matter WHAT!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

First of all let me define the basic premise of my reasoning. In modern aircraft, the ratio between people with window seats vs total number of passengers in varies from 1:2.5 on narrow body MD80 to 1:5 on 747s. In transcons, the number is ratio is more like to be 1:3 higher. Hence every window seat passenger's self-motivated action is likely to affect at least two others.

In most modern aircraft, the reading light is bright enough and appropriately directed so that it does not fall on the face of passengers on adjoining seats. I personally had no problems with the reading light on my weekly transcons. Neither when reading/working nor when trying to get some sleep when the passenger seated next to me is using the light.

Regarding sight-seeing from 35,000 ft: I do not have a problem if people spend *some* time looking out of the window. I can bet that most sight-seers spend maybe 5-10% of the total flight time on a trans-con craning their necks. Many times there is cloud cover, which though fascinating in its own right, limits the view you can get. Why not keep the shade down half the way or more, unless you have the urge to look or the pilot points to a landmark??

However, as an individual who is perhaps more sensitive to glare than normal, I find it inconsiderate that people have to keep the shade all the way up when it seriously affects other passengers' ability to work on a laptop, watch a movie (which you paid $5 for) or just get some rest.


[This message has been edited by SJC2ISP (edited 08-09-2000).]

belle3388: On UA, there's an announcement (probably scripted) that suggests that window shades be lowered "if you are not enjoying the view." I think that's reasonable.

Sometimes if sunlight glare or reading lights get to be too bothersome I will put on sunglasses, or even eyeshades that I take along in my briefcase.

As much as I may be driven to distraction by the shades being either up or down, it is just as much the prerogative of my seatmates to have their preferences.

Couldn't have said it better myself, FQTV! You're quite the evangelist, so a hearty AMEN to you! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Hear, hear. If I'm in the window seat, the shade stays up, regardless.

I'm one of those agressive sorts, I guess. I feel it's inconsiderate of those not seated by the window to expect me to sacrifice my nice daylight for them. I'm shut up in an office, in front of a computer all day long under florescent lighting. So when I'm on a plane I want to relax with good book by REAL light, enjoy the view and daydream. Tough nouggies if my seat opponents don't get everything their way.


[This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 08-09-2000).]

Amazing,

I just had this topic in my head based on a flight yesterday. Flew JFK-IST. Everyone's shades down except one smartguy who kept his up to read at 6AM. Everyone on business class was sleeping. HE woke me and at least 5 other people up. An FA asked him to shut it and he refused. What a jerk.

Exactly the attitude I was writing about. "Seat opponents" VOW! Thank God, they do not allow fire-arms aboard the plane.

I too sit in front of a computer all day long, in a cubicle, with the office lighting. That does not mean that everybody around me in an aircraft has to pay for the fact that I am not a BayWatch lifeguard who does not sit in an office all day long. Your insistence on keeping the shade up means that people around you *CANNOT* or are seriously hampered in doing other things they would like to do (work on a computer, watch a movie or sleep). On the other hand, you could still read your book with the overhead light. Sunshades and eyeshades may do for sleeping, but what about the people who want to work or watch the movie??

So, the people in the NON-window seats should get to decide what the people in the window seats do with the window shade? Consider this -- most of the non-window seats occupied are aisle seats. Should I, in the window seat, demand that you get out of your aisle seat for an hour so I can stretch my legs while sitting?

I still think my idea of window and non-window sections will work. I'm sure we can get the FAA to liberalize the "shades up during takeoff/landing" rule:
Window-free zones on aircraft



[This message has been edited by JSrombough (edited 08-10-2000).]

Before some of you start to go off on the passenger seated in the window seat, please understand that there is always a flip-side to the issue!

From my perspective, I always insist on a window seat. I rarely give it up, but will do so depending upon the situation. Why? Because I absolutely love to look out of the window during a flight!

I do not agree that there is only a few minutes during each flight where one looks out the window. That may be the case for some, but for many of us -- it is the very reason we've requested to sit by the window! In fact, I've often enjoyed looking out of the window for nearly the entire flight. I enjoy watching many aspects of the flight -- the takeoff/landing, flap and slot adjustments, landmarks, cities, etc. In fact, one of my favorite things about flying is simply looking out of the window at the clouds as I daydream. I also enjoy exhileration I feel when we break through the clouds and are skimming rapidly along the tops of them -- it enables you to gain a sense of just how fast you are traveling!

In any event, I think it depends on the mood of the flight in general, as well as the attitude of the passenger requesting such things. I've had other passengers ask me to close my window, and I usually comply. Just understand that there is another perspective sometimes.

I still think FQTV said it best...

I am not sure how the two actions are comparable in the amount of distruption caused:
-Requesting the window seat passenger to get the shade down.
-Asking the aisle seat passenger to VACATE the seat for an hour so that the window seat guy and stretch his legs.

I feel that in a shared environment the principal of greater good should hold true, rather than one individual's preference. Now dont tell me that "preventing" others to work, watch a movie or sleep because you prefer natural light IS the greater good.

Regarding looking out of the plane: It all depends on how long the flight is. If it is a 2-3 hours, I do not really care. The problems I have is on long transcons/intercons 5-10 hours, or the redeyes when an open window at 5:00 AM screws up the already disturbed sleep cycle even further.

I myself am fascinated by the planes, the clouds etc and often pull-up the shade to look out. However whenever I see someone working or trying to sleep, or when the movie starts, I pull the shades down. Similarly, I have also pulled the shade up when some one requested; in fact have switched seats before landing to give a less frequent flyer the excitement I feel during the low flight before landing.

Well enough said. I personally feel that it is discourteous not to be concerned about others and will continue to lower the shade if anyone requests.

No wonder the FA's are stressed out!

Switching seats isn't that difficult (my apologies if I implied the aisle person should just stand there). In fact, it means the new window person gets to control the shade, which the previous window person has now relinquished.

Richard said at the beginning of this topic: "Here's a new one (for me.) Recent flight on a 757 UA LAX-IAD I sat next to a man who tried to cajole me into taking his window seat (I had aisle). I politely refused. So whether in retribution or unconsciously ignoring my needs, he shuts both shades (while we were still at the gate at LAX) and had them closed the entire flight, including the bright and sunny portion."

If Richard chose to keep the aisle seat for the advantages of extra legroom, easier to get out of the seat, etc., why should he also have title to the window shade?

Look at it this way -- if the person in the window seat would like to look out the window, and the next person would like to work on a laptop or watch the movie, one person has absolutely nothing to do if he closes the window shade. Having the window shade open doesn't prevent the next person from using a laptop or watching the movie. Yes, it's a little more difficult, but it's completely impossible to look out the window if the shade is down. Plus, those in the aisle seat already have extra advantages that cannot be shared unless you switch seats.


Re movie watching -- I've noticed that most people do close the window shade while the movie is running. My open window shade is not going to make it impossible to watch the movie. If everyone did that, it would be a different matter. But since the light level in the cabin during the movie ranges from almost pitch black to fairly dark, I don't see how my closing the window shade can help that much (compared to how much entertainment I have by closing the window shade).

I agree with others who have said the control of the window shade belongs to the person who has the window seat. That is one of the perks of sitting there, just as one of the perks of sitting on the aisle is being able to stretch your legs out. If you want the shade down you should request a window seat.
For those of us who don't get to fly that often having the shade up is preferable. I enjoy being able to look out and see things down below, even just the clouds. And for ROADRUNNER who isn't opposed to reaching OVER and pushing the shade down, that is just rude! Do it to me and I'd push it right back up!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

On far over 1'000 flight segments so far in my live I have never enountered any real controversy/big-arguments on this.

I love FlyerTalk http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Do it to me and I'd push it right back up!!! I would smile and than say: 'ok - as a swiss used to compromize with a tradition of neutrality - I will give in 50% and OPEN it half-way'! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif