Amazing,

I just had this topic in my head based on a flight yesterday. Flew JFK-IST. Everyone's shades down except one smartguy who kept his up to read at 6AM. Everyone on business class was sleeping. HE woke me and at least 5 other people up. An FA asked him to shut it and he refused. What a jerk.

Exactly the attitude I was writing about. "Seat opponents" VOW! Thank God, they do not allow fire-arms aboard the plane.

I too sit in front of a computer all day long, in a cubicle, with the office lighting. That does not mean that everybody around me in an aircraft has to pay for the fact that I am not a BayWatch lifeguard who does not sit in an office all day long. Your insistence on keeping the shade up means that people around you *CANNOT* or are seriously hampered in doing other things they would like to do (work on a computer, watch a movie or sleep). On the other hand, you could still read your book with the overhead light. Sunshades and eyeshades may do for sleeping, but what about the people who want to work or watch the movie??

So, the people in the NON-window seats should get to decide what the people in the window seats do with the window shade? Consider this -- most of the non-window seats occupied are aisle seats. Should I, in the window seat, demand that you get out of your aisle seat for an hour so I can stretch my legs while sitting?

I still think my idea of window and non-window sections will work. I'm sure we can get the FAA to liberalize the "shades up during takeoff/landing" rule:
Window-free zones on aircraft



[This message has been edited by JSrombough (edited 08-10-2000).]

Before some of you start to go off on the passenger seated in the window seat, please understand that there is always a flip-side to the issue!

From my perspective, I always insist on a window seat. I rarely give it up, but will do so depending upon the situation. Why? Because I absolutely love to look out of the window during a flight!

I do not agree that there is only a few minutes during each flight where one looks out the window. That may be the case for some, but for many of us -- it is the very reason we've requested to sit by the window! In fact, I've often enjoyed looking out of the window for nearly the entire flight. I enjoy watching many aspects of the flight -- the takeoff/landing, flap and slot adjustments, landmarks, cities, etc. In fact, one of my favorite things about flying is simply looking out of the window at the clouds as I daydream. I also enjoy exhileration I feel when we break through the clouds and are skimming rapidly along the tops of them -- it enables you to gain a sense of just how fast you are traveling!

In any event, I think it depends on the mood of the flight in general, as well as the attitude of the passenger requesting such things. I've had other passengers ask me to close my window, and I usually comply. Just understand that there is another perspective sometimes.

I still think FQTV said it best...

I am not sure how the two actions are comparable in the amount of distruption caused:
-Requesting the window seat passenger to get the shade down.
-Asking the aisle seat passenger to VACATE the seat for an hour so that the window seat guy and stretch his legs.

I feel that in a shared environment the principal of greater good should hold true, rather than one individual's preference. Now dont tell me that "preventing" others to work, watch a movie or sleep because you prefer natural light IS the greater good.

Regarding looking out of the plane: It all depends on how long the flight is. If it is a 2-3 hours, I do not really care. The problems I have is on long transcons/intercons 5-10 hours, or the redeyes when an open window at 5:00 AM screws up the already disturbed sleep cycle even further.

I myself am fascinated by the planes, the clouds etc and often pull-up the shade to look out. However whenever I see someone working or trying to sleep, or when the movie starts, I pull the shades down. Similarly, I have also pulled the shade up when some one requested; in fact have switched seats before landing to give a less frequent flyer the excitement I feel during the low flight before landing.

Well enough said. I personally feel that it is discourteous not to be concerned about others and will continue to lower the shade if anyone requests.

No wonder the FA's are stressed out!

Switching seats isn't that difficult (my apologies if I implied the aisle person should just stand there). In fact, it means the new window person gets to control the shade, which the previous window person has now relinquished.

Richard said at the beginning of this topic: "Here's a new one (for me.) Recent flight on a 757 UA LAX-IAD I sat next to a man who tried to cajole me into taking his window seat (I had aisle). I politely refused. So whether in retribution or unconsciously ignoring my needs, he shuts both shades (while we were still at the gate at LAX) and had them closed the entire flight, including the bright and sunny portion."

If Richard chose to keep the aisle seat for the advantages of extra legroom, easier to get out of the seat, etc., why should he also have title to the window shade?

Look at it this way -- if the person in the window seat would like to look out the window, and the next person would like to work on a laptop or watch the movie, one person has absolutely nothing to do if he closes the window shade. Having the window shade open doesn't prevent the next person from using a laptop or watching the movie. Yes, it's a little more difficult, but it's completely impossible to look out the window if the shade is down. Plus, those in the aisle seat already have extra advantages that cannot be shared unless you switch seats.


Re movie watching -- I've noticed that most people do close the window shade while the movie is running. My open window shade is not going to make it impossible to watch the movie. If everyone did that, it would be a different matter. But since the light level in the cabin during the movie ranges from almost pitch black to fairly dark, I don't see how my closing the window shade can help that much (compared to how much entertainment I have by closing the window shade).

I agree with others who have said the control of the window shade belongs to the person who has the window seat. That is one of the perks of sitting there, just as one of the perks of sitting on the aisle is being able to stretch your legs out. If you want the shade down you should request a window seat.
For those of us who don't get to fly that often having the shade up is preferable. I enjoy being able to look out and see things down below, even just the clouds. And for ROADRUNNER who isn't opposed to reaching OVER and pushing the shade down, that is just rude! Do it to me and I'd push it right back up!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

On far over 1'000 flight segments so far in my live I have never enountered any real controversy/big-arguments on this.

I love FlyerTalk http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Do it to me and I'd push it right back up!!! I would smile and than say: 'ok - as a swiss used to compromize with a tradition of neutrality - I will give in 50% and OPEN it half-way'! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I can't believe this thread is still going on and on and on...

I don't recall anybody anywhere decreeing that anybody had a "right" to control the window shade on an airplane. If I recall correctly, they belong to the airline (or the leasing company), not to any of the passengers. Given this, I think the primary rule everybody should at least consider is that of courtesy. Otherwise, we're going to wind up with security guards on every plane to arbitrate disputes and prevent fisticuffs over window shade control.

In the spirit of Miss Manners, I hereby propose the following.

Rule 1: Everybody defers to whoever is in the middle seat. They have the worst seats in the plane (no decent view, no elbow room, no way to stretch legs, they have to ask to go to the washroom and they have to get up when the person in the window seat goes...).

Rule 2: Except for Rule 1, whoever has the window seat controls the window shade, the follwing apply in order:
a) if the pilot announces something visible off that side of the plane, it goes up;
b) except for (a), if the window seat occupant want it down, it stays down;
c) except for (a), if angle of the sun is such that anybody in the plane can't see the movie because of glare, it goes down;
d) except for (a, b, c), if the seatmates have a reasonable request for it to go down (they're sleeping, the glare from the sun makes their laptop look like a lightbox, they have vertigo, they're recovering from cataract surgery), it goes down;
e) if none of these apply, then the window shade goes up.

Rule 3: If the person closer to the window than you needs to go to the washroom, you must get up and let them, unless it is the window passenger who ignores Rule 2. However, you may not then complain about odd odors or dampness.

This is a somewhat tounge-in-cheek phrase, SJC2ISP, which Quiet Lion uses all in the time in his trip reports. I used it here in jest.

The other people around me who choose not to sit in a window seat are responsible for their own choices. If they want to watch a movie, fine. I don't except them not to. But they are subject to the same confines that I am.

Additionally, MY circadian rhythms are messed up when I'm subject to darkness in the middle of the day. I don't see my cabin mates showing ANY concern for MY needs. Yet you suggest that I should cater to THEIRS nonetheless.

I don't care for overhead light - it's too dim for me. And if I'm reclined the overhead light is useless.

You're suggesting SJC2ISP that everyone else is entitled to comfort at my expense. Sounds like Aminal Farm all over again.

I wasn't going to add to this thread, but now I can't believe how many control freaks there are in this world! Do these people have so little control in the rest of their lives that they have to prove something with, of all things, a friggin' airplane window shade?

Who was it that said "Can't we all just get along?" I try to follow that rule and have never gotten into the slightest hassle over a window shade - and I fly about 100,000 miles a year. Maybe I've just been lucky to draw a higher class of seatmate than average.

A perfect solution, of course, is to get the A seat in any row of a Saab 340 turbo. (That also avoids the movie-watching issue.)

Rudi, 50% open or closed can be a major improvement.
And we wonder why FA's are stressed out and service declined or added attitude! If they had to fly more often, I am sure the Disability time off would be much higher for them.

What i meant to say was, if the shade is up and the person is napping (which is often), I would reach over the lower it.

But here was another true life experience. Notice that there are windows BETWEEN the seats that can have low sun shining in. The person infront of you has the seat back and sleeping. The movie was on, so I reached up and closed the shade.

Have this topic been massaged sufficently to move on to something else?

[This message has been edited by ROADRUNNER (edited 08-12-2000).]

Why are we still talking about this. The FA's should just pass out sunglasses along with the hot towels! I love to look out of the window and always request a window seat, but as Efrem says I too have never had a problem with a pax and a window shade in 30 years. Can't we all have a tad of compassion?

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MRKEY