Many times in the past I used to do nutso 25 flight itineraries with CO from Australia to Central America or the Caribbean, via Guam, Saipan, Hon etc, etc.

Often the CO staff en-route could be persuaded to hand me a print out not only of the top section (flights and status of flights) but all the "comments".

You'd be AMAZED what goes in there many times! Be a quarto page of stuff on occasion http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 07-30-2000).]

A lot has already been said above regarding the strange world of PNR's. Still I feel that I need to add the following info:

In addition to the reservation systems that the different airlines use, there are four major computer reservation systems that are used by travel agencies: Amadeus/System One, Galileo/Apollo, Sabre, and Worldspan. These are known as CRS (Central Reservation Systems) or GDS (Global Distribution Systems). Every time a reservation is made (=a PNR is created) in any of the above systems, there is another PNR created in an airlines system.

Let's say that you call your travel agent (who uses the Amadeus GDS) and make a reservation for a United flight between JFK and LHR. The agent will create a PNR with your name and other personal details. This PNR will get a PNR number in the Amadeus system (also called record locator). Usually with 5 or 6 randomly selected numbers and digits. When the agent reserves a seat on the United flight, which you wish to travel on, it will be entered in your PNR (in the Amadeus system). But since United use another system (Apollo) the Amadeus system has to make that reservation in the Apollo system (this is done by itself). Some other information will also be passed on to United’s system. You will then actually have two PNR's one in Amadeus and one in Apollo.

Lets say that you want to make some more reservations. You want to continue from LHR
to FRA on Lufthansa. When the agent reserves your seat on Lufthansa there will be yet another PNR created, this time in Lufthansa’s system. You now have 3 PNR’s and 3 record locators. This goes on and on. You also reserve a flight from FRA back to LHR on British Airways. Now another PNR is created. This time in BA’s system. You now have 4 PNR’s and 4 record locators!

One of the problems with this is that ALL your flights will only be visible in the Amadeus system where they originaly where made. Lets say that you call British Airways about something, When they look at your reservation (in their system). They will see the flight you have booked with BA, and if you are lucky the Lufthansa flight, but not the rest. This is one of the reasons why paper tickets are better that an e-ticket. The paper ticket is a proof of what you have booked and paid for. If you have an e-ticket only the airline that you have booked with(and some partner using the same system)will be able se what you have…

nilsman is (unfortunately) so correct on this. UA can't see the LH PNR and vice-versa, talking about seamless StarAlliance-travel ...

The only time airlines can see each other's PNR is when they are on the SAME reservation system. ie AMADUEUS computer systems like FINNAIR, IBERIA, LAUDA AIR, AUSTRIAN, AIRFRANCE and LUFTHANSA. Note that this has nothing to do with alliances but on who owns the reservations systems.

I've noticed NW allows you to access on the web your reservation record if you have a PNR, which can be obtained by an NW agent.

The web record indicates if you have a confirmed seat as per you have requested. A mistake can be spotted.

I wonder if any other airlines offer such service.

[This message has been edited by Chiangi (edited 07-31-2000).]

I wish they omitted zero and the letter O completely.

Nearly every time I have read a reloc off a ticket to an agent I have guessed wrong. That takes time for both ends to sort out.

Some of the computers now print zero with a diagonal line through it, but many do not, and given the comfusion it causes you'd wonder why they did not delete both.

Now I think on it I suspect the number one and the letter I on any sans serif print out look identical too.

Have had the 0O problem at least 3 times in the last 2 months. A line through the zero would really help or get rid of it. I do wonder how much time they waste with this problem?

[This message has been edited by JRF (edited 07-31-2000).]

that O0 problem reminds me of another problem I have.

About in 1 out of 4 hotel reservations they do file my reservation under my first (Rudi) and not under my second (family) name. I learned, but it took some time: when they start searching now I tell them to look under the other letter too.

I am convinced that this is only happening because my 'world-famous'-handle here on Flyertalk is 'Rudi' http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

AA has come up with a system to bug out the O0 problem and that is that they do not use numbers at all in a Record Locator (PNR) AA/Sabre only uses Letters. Although Aadvantage numbers use a combination, an Aadvantage number will only use a zero never the letter "O".

Also PNR's are purged from the general reservations system at midnight the following day after the last flight has been taken. Many travel agencies will add in what is called a psuedo flight (or fake flight information) in the PNR's itinerary, this will keep the reservation "alive" or active until midnight the date of the psuedo flight. Usually the accounting department and frequent flier department will be the only ones with access to the old databases with the old PNR's.

PNR's are recycled, so giving the PNR number of an old reservation could pull up a new reservation for another person.

The reservation that you see on an airline web site (like NW, AA, or DL) is not the same PNR that an airline employee/agent sees. It accesses the same data, but it is made to look "user friendly" to the average consumer. It also does not have any of the codes or comments, and often not status information that is in your official PNR. It's kind of like looking at your credit report. Sure...you can write the credit bureau, and they will mail you the report. But wait! What you get is not what a bank would get when you apply for a loan. You get the "consumer friendly" version, which does not have all the codes, credit scores, and abbreviations that your bank gets when they access your credit report. Similar idea when you view your reservation on the web with these business-to-consumer systems.

If I can think of any possible reason to do so...I will ask them at the airport to print out my PNR, so I can read all of the codes and comments. A lot of the time they will instead print out the consumer-friendly (aka the boring) receipt. Once in LGW I asked them to give me a copy of my PNR, and they said it was company property and while they could review it with me, they could not give it to me.

UA may have a system (profiles) where airline agents can access historical comments entered about you (separate than the PNR).

Also per other posts on FT, DL seems to have a "file" area for each Skymiles member, where airport agents can type in comments that remain presumably for the life of the Skymiles account. This could be like if you had a problem, complained, or if they felt you were doing something wrong. I don't know that any other airline has a system where there is a freeflow text field that any agent can write into and have the information available to any other agent system-wide. Makes me a bit paranoid about Delta. They once gave me some miles for customer relations at the airport, and apparently entered this in my permanent file because someone later told me it was in the record. Come on, even bankrupcy drops off your credit history in 10 years...but correct me if I'm wrong this mysterious Skymiles file stays with the member for the life of the account.

Dalguy .. good info. Is the AA letters only system also a 6 letter sequence the same at the alpha/numeric that most airlines still use?

More and more good questions and comments. I had no idea when I posted that this simple question would develop into such a thread!

Many years ago, when I was in the Air Force, I seem to remember that we never used the alpha O and I in any ID situation. I would expect this is still true.

I have noticed that Sabre (AA and now US among others) is all alpha, while others, e.g. Apollo, Armadeus, are alpha/numeric. Experts will have to confirm.

But the post by Dalguy brings me to a new question: Why are both records known as PNR. At AA (where I am Plt and 2mil), what distinguishes the flight Record Locator PNR from any "profile" PNR they may or may not maintain.

Jetsetter: At LGW, from which airline did you request the PNR? Was it AA?

I certainly want to know more about what is, or can be, in any and all records connected to me personally through my FF numbbers, my trip reservation Record Locator or any combination (permanent or temporary) of the two.

I think this may have become a bigger issue.

Sorry for the confusion, when I was with NW their PNR's/Record Locators used alpha/numeric codes. I believe only "sabreized" PNR's are strictly Alpha coded.

RE: PNR for flights and Personal information - AA uses two systems one is called AATMS - for Aadvantage information and SABRE for reservations. Within Sabre they keep a profile which is called a Star File that has your personal information as far as name/address/phone/status/etc.... The AATMS (sorry i can't remember the acronym, but its something like AAdvantage Tracking Marketing System) is where they actually store comments and other information.

AA does not use PNRs for anything but reservations. There is one exception, and that is agents tend to have "personal" PNRS for messages, questions and Tips (for doing something incorrectly). Any time an agent makes an error and it is caught they are "tipped"/told that they made an error, and may either be told to correct it (if possible to correct) or just notified that they made a mistake.

All this is probably more information than you want or need, but gives you some more insight into the wonderful world of Travel.

There cetainly is an amazing amount of knowledge on this board! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Hello, On the LGW trip, I had requested a copy of my PNR from a CO first class concierge. She had the printout of it right in her hand, but would not give it to me. I know there was an authorization for an upgrade on the domestic parts of the flight due to customer relations per a co superviser in a different city than LGW. Also they had flew me into LGW rather than LHR, and I was requesting ground transportation to my destination in London (well, it has been done in the past). They ended up giving me a voucher to take the rail from LGW into the center of London. The first class concierge was very reluctant to even give me the train voucher, but eventually agreed to do so. In contrast, in America, I have seen them give out cab vouchers with barely a glance at your record when flights are late, etc. Europe agents tend to be more strict, by the book, etc., than the American/USA agents from my limited international travel experience. Also once in FRA, I had checked in, and gone to whatever club CO uses in that city. The ticket agent actually came to the club, and said that it looked like I had to pay a change fee. She actually bothered to go find me in the club to collect this fee. Also to stapple some kind of upgrade coupon to my ticket. It turned out I was traveling on the same day as ticketed, and did not have to pay. But I cannot imagine in a US airport a ticket agent running out from the counter to tidy up some paperwork like that. They would just pull whatever coupon you have at the gate, right or wrong, and they wouldn't go to such lengths to make sure the I's were dotted, and the t's crossed.