84fiero

Yeah it's a long, long list of possible higher risk exposure areas. I guess that's why the general idea was that between public education and compulsory immunization for schools, etc. it would largely be taken care of. It used to be that people were thrilled to be able to avoid these diseases when a vaccine was developed.

Of course it's much, much easier to do this for international departures where document checks already occur, than for the significantly higher quantity of domestic flights that most airlines have. Also, the number of destinations with a mandatory inbound-international-passenger vaccination requirements, and the number of different applicable vaccines for those countries, isn't that large..

Proudelitist

[redacted]
Flying, despite many claims to the contrary here on FT, is not a right.

We have a right to freedom of movement, but nothing specifies by what mode of transport that freedom be exercised. If air travel exacerbates pandemics, and we know it does, then restrictions should absolutely be imposed on people who represent a risk of infectious disease.

The problem is giving up private medical information. Now, nobody would FORCE you to do it. It would be voluntary, but if you want to fly you had better do it, or buy a bus ticket.

GUWonder

JamesKidd

I agree, in fact I would also add in they should not be able to order pizzas

CDTraveler

I realize not everyone posting here is in/from the U.S. but as long as the U.S. Constitution reads "Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; " to make vaccinations mandatory for all here would be a violation of civil liberties. It also is not always good medicine, and no, this is not about autism. People with hyperactive immune systems can have life threatening reactions to vaccines, as can people with specific allergies. And why should you have to be vaccinated for a disease you've had? If it were mandatory for all to be vaccinated against say, chicken pox, then what do you do about the millions of people born before 1995, when it was licensed in the U.S? Force them to get? Get blood tests to prove whether or not they are already immune? Waste millions of dollars on the program, and raise the cost of air travel?

If someone to wants to mandate health policy in air travel, it would make far more sense to actively prevent people who are already sick from flying. Oh, wait, that's not a popular sentiment here on FT, is it? How many hundreds of posts are there saying, "Well, I had the flu, but my meeting/conference/vacation is really important! So I'm going to fly anyway."

Kevin AA

If the problem is anti-vaxxers choosing not to vaccinate their children, the solution is not to make everyone else prove that they have been vaccinated. The solution is to force everyone to be vaccinated. Letting stupid people get away with this is literally killing people!

This is a problem that needs to be addressed NOW. All children who are the offspring of these stupid people who don't believe in vaccines need to be either vaccinated, or the entire family quarantined in a 50 square mile remote area of the country that currently has a population of zero. You can leave once you get vaccinated. Otherwise, enjoy your time until you die of measles or whatever.

CDTraveler

So are guns, drunk drivers and the polar vortex. In the stats I found, in 2018 there 350 reported cases of measles in the US, no deaths. Put that in perspective now: there were 39, 773 gun deaths in the US in the same time frame. I'd prefer limited public resources go toward reducing the murder rate.

You do realize that if you quarantine them, they'll be safe from catching diseases, right? Also, vaccines aren't perfect, some have effectiveness rates as low as 80% for DTaP, and immunity wanes over time. My fully immunized kid had pertussis twice.

Kevin AA

There's nothing you can do about cold weather. Most gun deaths are suicides and murders between people they know. People don't purposely pick up measles because they're suicidal or pass measles to the drug dealer because their coke was cut. Drunk drivers get plenty of LE attention (though it could be more, I agree with that).

It's not like we have to choose which type of preventable death to work on and just ignore everything else.

Yes. Everyone's happy.

Are you an anti-vaxxer?

CDTraveler

Did you miss the part where I wrote "My fully immunized kid?"

No, I'm somebody who spent 2 decades working in working pediatric medicine and lives in the real world where hard choices have to made about the use of limited resources, like determining what course of action would result in the greatest reduction in preventable deaths: 0 measles deaths versus 39,773 guns.

Can you provide any evidence to back up this claim, or just more hyperbole? And of course you realize that vaccines can cause serious adverse reactions, including death? (no, not talking about that autism BS). Try being fully informed from reputable science sources, maybe like CDC stats.

Kevin AA

Lots of anti-vaxxers are parents who had their kid vaccinated, then the child developed some unrelated illness, and the parent blames the vaccine.

Vaccines have nothing to do with guns. Stop trying to evade the topic at hand.

typical anti-vaxxer response... "prove a negative"... no, you need to be the one to prove that vaccines cause more harm than help... I won't be holding my breath because I'll die of aphyxiation

wendyg

Maybe what the airline industry needs is "measles flights" like those parties some parents used to throw so their kids would get the "childhood diseases" and be immune thereafter. (I always thought it was a dumb idea to deliberately get your child sick, but...)

wg

erik123

You quote proof that measles vaccines are highly effective as a reason to be complacent?

Measles is a higly contagious and sometimes deadly disease that killed a million kids a year two decades ago - before a world wide campaign to vaccinate all kids reduced deaths by over 90% to around 100,000.. Let's keep it that way.

84fiero

There can never be 100% immunization due to some individuals who cannot receive the jab due to having an allergy to a component of the vaccine or a medical condition (immune compromised, etc.) that makes the vaccine contraindicated either temporarily or permanently. Which is why herd immunity is so important, to increase the odds of protecting those individuals. Also, as CDTraveler mentions, even proven vaccines may not always be 100% effective for a given individual or after a period of time, which again makes herd immunity important, though not a 100% guarantee.

The "quarantine camps" idea is actually more unfeasible and unrealistic than the OP's airline idea. I don't know what the answer is to the anti-vax movement. The internet seems to have fostered it, as it has so many negative things in our world. The movement has a great potential danger if it were to grow beyond the current fringes - especially as it represents an irrational and unscientific mindset that could have further implications beyond just vaccines. But neither airline policing of vaccination certificates nor quarantine camps are the solution.

celle

How about some personal responsibility in this situation?

I've read enough about "Airlines could/should", "Government could/should", etcetera. Far too often, people expect some large agency to take action, when the answer is in their own hands.,

If you are concerned about catching measles or any other infectious disease, make sure that you and your family are vaccinated. I am not a US citizen but over the years I have travelled frequently, to the US and many other countries. Before travelling overseas, I always make sure that all my immunizations are up to date. The only illnesses I have caught while travelling are viral coughs and colds, for which no immunization is currently available.

I'm old now, but in my twenties working as a RN, I saw several babies die from measles and whooping cough. Those diseases can be fatal for the young, sickly and un-immunized. If anti-vaccers had seen that happen, they would realise that their fears and objections are trivial, when compared to seeing a child die.

CDTraveler

Your distortion of what I wrote is both idiotic and childish. I spent years in pediatric health care, saw first hand that vaccines are not 100% safe or effective and did research with reputable sources, like the National Institute of Health database of vaccine reactions. Your posts suggest you are extremist who is incapable of understanding that every decision has consequences, and that any public policy decision requires looking at the big picture, which includes determining the most effective use of limited resources. Your rant about anti-vaxxer's killing people is just that: an unsubstantiated rant with no connection to reality.