Avoiding chain hotels
 

Many here will probably not be old enough to remember back to the beginning of Holiday Inns. They arose from a niche in the market that someone saw as an alternative to the then ubiquitous Mom and Pop Motels where the quality varied a great deal. The basic premise of Holiday Inn was that from the East to West coast of N. America, if you stayed in a Holiday Inn anywhere, the room would be nearly identical to a room in every other Holiday Inn. In other words, you were assured of a certain level of quality and ammenities. That spelled the death of independent motels and today if you do a road trip across the USA, you would be hard pressed to find many independent hotels along the Interstates. A handful of chains dominate the market almost completely.

I use them in N. America but try to avoid them in other places like Europe where a great many equal but independent hotels still exist. No Holiday Inn, Marriott or Hilton, etc. has the same ambiance as some of the independent hotels in the same price ranges. For example, here is a 3 star boutique hotel in Switzerland where you can get a double room for $90 US per night with breakfast in June.
https://bellevuewiesen.com/hotelbellevuewiesen/ The hotel dates back to 1873 but is fully modernized and has an award winning restaurant. Europe is full of such hotels which are unique rather than 'cookie cutter' copies. You will not find that price by the way on any third party booking sites, but that's another topic.

I understand people who want to collect 'Loyalty Points' but wonder if they ever consider that it limits them and keeps them from experiencing more interesting hotels. At the higher end of the market, you will not get a room with your Hilton, Marriott, etc. points at this hotel. Sitting high above the lake with a waterfall to one side and reached by funicular from their own ferry dock, compare this to the hotels in Interlaken where the majority of tourists stay. https://www.giessbach.ch/en/grandhotel-giessbach.html

So what about you, do you avoid chains and look for unique independent hotels when you can find them? Or do you let 'points' dominate your thinking?

I collect points and have a traveling strategy built on earning points when convenient, but I try to avoid letting points dictate my destinations. I see posts around here frequently where people are asking for suggestions about where they can stay in London or Paris or Dublin, and it becomes obvious that the question is phrased the way it is because the poster wants to use accumulated points at a US chain hotel. I won't criticize that out of hand because six or seven years ago, extremely cheap Choice Hotels point redemptions in effect at the time made me jump on a short trip to London when airfares suddenly dropped. Although that trip made me want to return to London, since then, I've used airbnb, a similar service called holidaybookings.co.uk, or stayed in independent hotels in London. In addition, in Europe and other parts of the world, chains don't exist outside of the major cities, yet many of the interesting parts of the country are located in small towns or completely rural areas. I count Ireland as one of those places--yes, Dublin is in Ireland and has tons of point redemption options, but life outside Dublin is fantastic, and I couldn't imagine never wanting to travel to those Irish small towns because they don't have a Carlson, IHG, Hilton, SPG, etc. And from my experiences in Northern Ireland, I would generally avoid Belfast with its multiple chain options to journey through the Glens of Antrim or the Causeway Coast where chains are few and far between. I'm very happy that I don't limit my travels to locales where I could use my hotel points.

And I definitely have little to no interest in the "aspirational" properties so often pushed by the bloggers. The Maldives? Not my cup of tea.

I view point collection for hotels as part of a bigger travel strategy. With airbnb and similar services, the hotel industry is facing challenges. I'm figuring one of the ways hotel chains can those challenges is to keep hotel loyalty programs reasonably rewarding so if I'm traveling to NYC or Florida or California, it may be worth my while to earn or redeem in one of those places. But it's now also worth my while to see what other options may be available.

I rented an apartment on VRBO as well as stayed in a couple of Marriott hotels in the UK late last year and I definitely preferred the former for several reasons:

1. The apartment was in Vauxhall, which is much closer to the tourist stuff in Central London than the Marriott property by LCY that I stayed at the couple of days before leaving the UK.
2. The apartment ended up working out to be not much more than the London Marriott property, making it a pretty good value.
3. The "living like a local" experience, which I didn't realize I was that much into. (Though thinking about it more, I guess it's a natural extension to my usual "no chain restaurant" rule.)

The apartment was such a nice experience that it actually makes me wonder if I should try for re-upping Marriott status this year. Of course, renting an apartment isn't ideal for every trip; hotels still have their uses for shorter trips. Not to mention that the Airbnb/VRBO route has pitfalls of its own.

I don't want to collect loyalty points as it restricts where you might stay. I find someone posting... where can I stay in Hong Kong with accor points weird rather than where is the best place that suits my needs and location. I don't want to be tied down to a few options. I too like locally run hotels and want the hotel to feel like the country I am in rather than it be a generic hotel that could be in any place.

I'm one of those quite focused on points and didn't really go in that direction until about 10 years ago. Prior to that I was doing a combination of single rooms in hostels, hotels, B&Bs and pensiones, depending where I was and on pricing, with points not in play. I would typically be out of the U.S. about 12 weeks a year so had lots of paid nights.

What changed my mind was meeting FTers at various events around the world who convinced me I was leaving a lot of free hotel nights on the table by not accruing points and taking advantage of credit card signup bonuses for the various hotel programs. My biggest score was 10 award nights in London during the 2012 Olympics at an Indigo hotel near the Tower of London, a property that was $1,000 a night a year out until dropping down to $600 a few days before opening ceremonies. Both IHG and Hyatt had award stays available during the Olympics if you were able to book 11 months out. Most of the paid rates I had looked at during the Olympics were prepaid, nonrefundable, which they can do with special events. The points really saved me a fortune here.

I tend to use my hotel points when the rates are too high - for me, typically something over $150 a night. I find a get a pretty good return, and the hotels I am paying to stay at, and accrue points at, are competitively priced. My points are split between four different programs.

I'm quite loyal when it comes to air travel. At least within an alliance.

To put another way, I'm a captive at the mercy of the FFP.

Because the airports are generally the same, the experience is generally the same, so the marginal differences from FF recognition (e.g. priority access) becomes magnified.

When it comes to hotel, anything goes. There is huge variability in location, individual property qualities, etc. I assess them all on property by property basis. If most things are equal I'll stick with the brand to get points, lounge access, etc. But things are almost never equal.

We'll collect "points" if they happen to be given when we stay at a property that we *already* prefer, for whatever reason.

But we won't select a property just so we can "get more points".
We also won't select a property just because it has certain perks (e.g., with Amex Plat "fine hotels"), although we'll certainly use them if they exist where we prefer to stay.

At this stage in our lives, ALL aspects of travel are "part of the experience", including both air travel and hotel, so we choose what gives us the most pleasure. (Or, in some cases, the least aggravation :( )

We'll select a "chain" if we are in some distant USA-based town and there are not any obvious "nicer hotels", for the reasons given. We might miss out on something nicer, but how would we have found it, if it isn't obvious from assorted listings? And we'd prefer to know that we are minimizing the chance of some horror story...

But if there is a hotel of some known charm, large or small, we'll also go out of our way to stay there, especially in non-USA destinations. That's part of why we travel to non-USA places, after all.

We don't want a "Holiday Inn" in London, and we also don't want some high rise "once you walk in the door, that lobby and the rooms could be in AnyCity".
We were actually once booked into a London Holiday Inn (by someone else), and all we did there was to phone Amex Plat Travel collect (nice to find out back then that it really works!), and about an hour later, we were checking into Claridges. We had such a great time, we extended our trip for a second week.

Even when we were younger and on a more limited budget, we'd select B&B's in the USA (or "pensions" overseas), using those old green Michelin guidebooks, and selecting something at least one category up from the lowest. But not anything like a chain.
We've got some wonderful memories of those along the French countryside for a couple of weeks.

GC

OK - I'll say it...I like chain hotels. I like consistency and knowing what I'm going to get. Sure, I like to explore a new city and try new food, but at the end of the day, there is something comforting about returning to something familiar. I once did a 2 week vacation throughout the UK staying mostly at "quaint" B&Bs. Some were nice, some were weird (carpet in the bathroom kind of weird), and a couple were dreadful (i.e. someone walking into the room in the middle of the night). I was very excited near the end to find a boring chain hotel with a normal shower, a good lock on the door and clean bedding. I've never stayed in a B&B again.

However, I don't let the points dictate. I collect points and have status in several programs and will use them for free nights when I can, but if there is a better hotel in a certain city, I'll pay for that and save my points for another time.

You're not alone in that. I have little interest in the "aspirational" properties that are always being pushed. I hated my one stay at a very nice B&B -- didn't like the proximity of strangers or the forced-extroversion of shared breakfast. Most of my stays are one-night, work- or leisure-related, often alone but occasionally with spouse or a road-trip friend. I focus on Honors properties and secondarily IHG Holiday Inn Expresses (which are much more consistent than Holiday Inns). I like knowing exactly what I am getting at the Hampton or Hilton Garden Inn, or the occasional Doubletree, and the Diamond status at the latter two has saved me lots of money on breakfasts over the years. You see, I **like** hotel rooms, if I were alone in the world, I'd probably look into living in a Hampton Inn :)

Fun fact: the original Holiday Inns also all had a tie-in with the Gulf Oil Company with the arrangement that a Gulf gas station would be on or adjacent the property. This was a HUGE reason for their success (along with the standardization and minimum expected quality that was a godsend to parents traveling with children) -- not because of the gas station itself, but because you could charge your room at the Holiday Inn to your Gulf Oil credit card. And in the 1960s, pre-Visa/MC, this allowed families to take vacations that they could pay off over the next several months.

Yup. I'll say it too - I like chains. I want to go to a branded hotel where they have some sort of corporate checklist for everything.

I'm a fan of independent restaurants but when it comes to a hotel room...thanks but no thanks.

Just a quick night somehere unknown while on a business trip -> chain. Longer stays/Leisure/.. if time allows, look out for "Mom+Pop" places, almost every time this was a good choice and experience.

I believe the days of chain hotels being more consistent and reliable than independent hotels are long gone. These days, with online review sites like Yelp and TripAdvisor, a hotel that doesn't provide a good experience will get called out and lose customers very quickly. I have stayed at many independent and chain hotels, and I can't say that chains have been any better on average. I suppose that with a chain, you have another avenue to complain if there are problems, but that's about it.

Ironically, if TripAdvisor had existed back in the day, maybe Holiday Inn and other chain hotels would not have emerged.

I do believe that it is important to support small businesses, so I sometimes choose an independent hotel/restaurant/shop if all other factors are equal. But it all depends on the type of travel. For a longer leisure trip, I might look for a boutique hotel or B&B, but for a night's stay on a business trip, it will probably be the closest hotel.

To answer OP's question about points, I use the loyalty program run by an OTA (hotels.com). That way, I can get free nights without being tied down to a particular chain. No elite benefits, but those aren't a big deal and I can get some of them from a credit card.

Independent hotels are off my list unless recommended by someone I know who has stayed there. Anonymous on-line reviews are too easy to manipulate. I've stayed at places with horribly reviews that weren't bad and vice versa.

Holiday Inn used to have a motto, "No Surprises" which continues to apply to most chains. No surprises either pleasant or unpleasant is acceptable. I know what to expect and generally get something close to it.

Many chain hotels are in fact owned or by local folks, or at least they are franchisees, so staying at their chains does support local business.

When I travel with my family, the hotel is the place we want to spend the least amount of time. We will get breakfast (free) at my "chain" hotel, then hit the city/town/slopes/beach/etc of the destination to experience the culture and offerings of the place we have chosen.

We stayed last summer at Palacio del Inka, an historic building with plenty of amenities, historic artifacts, etc., etc. We basically saw our room, the breakfast room, and the hallways in between. We were out exploring Cusco and the surrounding areas to meet the people, see the parades, explore the museums, etc., etc. all day.

So when a hotel is just a place to sleep, I'll get the free breakfast, welcome amenities, and collect points for my next (free) stay at another location.

I know folks who go to Maui and stay at a 5* resort, lounging at the pool, beach, etc., for an entire week. We prefer to head off at 7a to Hana and the Pipiwai trail, returning in the dark. YMMV.

We did stay at an "independent" hotel at Machu Picchu, but we were out at 7a and back after dark there too. So anything special about an independent property was missed.

If I flew for work, I could understand the appeal of a chain hotel (and loyalty) - especially if you are unfortunate enough to spend a 100+ nights domestically within the US in a hotel.

I stay in hotels about 50-80 nights a year on vacation. I cant imagine being "loyal" to a chain, and base our travels based on where there is a Hyatt or worse, a crappy Sheraton.
In addition, outside of the US and Canada, chains are extremely overpriced compared to local options (as mentioned in the OP), which in most cases, are better than the chains anyway. You can (by simply paying for it) get a nicer room, and all the "elite" perks of a chain, for a lower price at an independent 4*/5* hotel.

I do occasionally make use of my Marriott/Carlson status, especially within the US, but only because those statuses are free.

Lots of interesting comments on both sides of the fence. I don't have anything against chains and do stay in them when on a road trip in N. America. I couldn't live in a Hampton Inn as one poster says would be OK, but I could probably live in a Marriott Residence Inn for an extended period of time. My wife, sister-in-law and myself stayed in one which had 2 separate bedrooms, a living room with fireplace and a kitchenette. Located right on the lake. Residence Inn Gravenhurst Muskoka Wharf - Guest Reservations

I'm not an AirBnB fan at all, in fact I am 100% against using them, primarily because of their unethical business model. They knowingly allow illegal rentals to be listed and hide behind their lawyers and say, 'we are only a listing site and not responsible for what is listed.'

I agree with the comment regarding UK B&Bs. Quality varies tremendously with there being a lot of low quality examples. It's ironic that the birthplace of B&Bs has some of the poorest example in the world. I avoid them and look for smaller hotels. Here is an example: The Woodside Hotel - The Woodside Hotel, Aberdour, Fife hotel rooms, wedding venue, restaurant, function suite & venue hire Coincidently, this hotel and the first one I linked in the OP, share the same birthdate, 1873. The Woodside is a half hour by train from Edinburgh city centre and with much more reasonable prices. The village it is in, Aberdour, is a nice little seaside village with a period train station. http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DF46A4/aber...and-DF46A4.jpg I can assure you it is far nicer to stay there than in the Sheraton in Edinburgh, I"ve done both. One you feel you are in Scotland, the other you could be anywhere.

Regarding Holiday Inn and Gulf Oil, yes I remember that now that you bring it up cblaisd. Then of course came along Howard Johnson's which captured the vote of my Brother and I as they had their attached restaurants with 28 flavours of ice cream. 28 FLAVOURS! That got our attention at age 10-12. I switched my attention to girls by the pool at age 13.

I think there is a place for both chain and non-chain hotels. My OP was just about not developing tunnel vision in the pursuit of Loyalty Points when there might be a more unique hotel that would appeal to you if you took the time to look around. For those who do like to find more unique hotels, it would be interesting to see some of your finds. So add a link and let us see what you have found. Here is one of our favourite finds: Château Eza - Hotel Chateau Eza | Eze Village | Site Official | Cote d?Azur Found in the days before the internet when it was not so easy to do.

The internet like everything else has its pros and cons but in terms of travel and finding hotels, it is definitely a plus for the traveller. Nowadays, almost every hotel, hostel, B&B, etc. has its own website making it easy to search out some little gem. Here is another of our 18th century favourites: Hotel Tamaro Ascona Switzerland | Official Site | Piazza Ascona Lake Maggiore

And for those who dislike B&Bs, here is a 17th century B&B to consider. They rent only one room, it is in the turret on the left in the picture. https://www.sawdays.co.uk/france/pic...=1&term=France Here's a better photo. Not your average B&B is it and yet it is available at an average B&B price of from $85 USD per night. http://frenchbattlefields.com/blog/w...-la-Quincy.jpg

I try to avoid having tunnel vision in all areas of life, hotel choices included. In many parts of the US, though, local markets are so dominated by chain hotels that know I'll pretty much end up at one anyway. Thus often I simplify my search by looking at what's available from HH, MR, and IHG. These are brand families I've chosen over time because I like the standards of what they offer. Perks and points in their loyalty programs are a small benefit that helps tilt the decision when price and quality points are otherwise close to equal.

What part of that do you think doesn't apply to everyone else CPRich? Which part of it do you think is only provided by chain hotels?

I want to spend the least amount of time in an independent hotel, for the same reasons as you do in a chain hotel and yes they give me a free breakfast as well. But what you seem to not be considering is that you do have to spend time in the hotel. If it really didn't matter what the hotel was like, then why not just stay in the cheapest hotel you can find? If you have to spend time in a hotel, then does it not make sense to spend that time in the nicest hotel you can find within your budget constraints? There is no logic in saying that spending as little time as possible in the hotel is a reason to pick chain hotels over independent hotels. The only logical argument that spending as little time as possible in a hotel might support is that you should stay in the cheapest hotel possible. One star with a clean bed, why pay for more?

As an example, if you were to decide to visit Davos, Switzerland in June, you could stay at the Hilton Garden Inn. See here: Hilton Garden Inn Davos - Guest Reservations Or you could stay at the first hotel I linked in my OP. See here: https://bellevuewiesen.com/hotelbell...llevue-wiesen/

Take a look at the photo galleries for both. The location of the hotels is not comparable. One on a busy main street next to a supermarket, in the city and the other in a quiet mountain village with great scenery all around you and visible from almost every window. The Hilton will cost you more. The rooms are quite comparable. The Hilton is large, cold and impersonal, the other has only 21 rooms and if you stay more than one night, you will actually get to know the staff and get personal service.

Consider just this alone in terms of the time you have to spend in the hotel CPRich. In the HIlton, you will probably sit here to have a drink after you return from a day of hiking in the mountains.https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...-inn-davos.jpg

In the other you will probably sit here: https://bellevuewiesen.com/wp-conten...e-1024x531.png

Now you tell me which you prefer during the time you have to spend in the hotel.

Chain hotels depress me. They remind me of that soul-less corporate landscape those of us who travel for work must endure day to day. I absolutely avoid Hamptons, Hilton Garden Inns, etc for their lack of imagination and their cookie cutter feel.

HOWEVER, as a points hound I seek out properties they own that are different. Marriott has some resort properties too. So staying at the Marriott resort near Garden of the Gods is nothing like staying at one in some uban sprawl exurb.

Funny you say Holiday Inn. I find that THEY are the ones that have the most variation between properties now..from 1970's hangovers to very chic style properties and everything inbetween.

And I also Airbnb with foreign travel when I can.

That is all I am suggesting to people darthbimmer, that they avoid tunnel vision. I agree that in N. America there is little real choice unfortunately but that is not the case everywhere. I just think that sometimes we may not be aware that there are better options sometimes. I think the two photos I just added above are a perfect example of that.

This is my go-to option when my preferred chains are too expensive or it's an extended stay. An AirBnB in/near the city center can be a great way to achieve some consistency while saving some money. I don't suppose I have anything against independent hotels per se, but they also offer me nothing that my chain or an AirBnB can't get me.

In the US there are a few kinds of places where I routinely look beyond chain hotels. One of them is areas of great natural beauty. Independent hotels are often built to offer unique views that cookie-cutter chain brands often ignore, as in the comparison pictures you posted. Of course, independent ownership is no guarantee of a great view. There could just as easily be an independent hotel downtown in an unremarkable business area catering to travelers who want to minimize travel time, while a hotel atop the hill has joined one of the franchisors. Travelers must always look at what's on offer without carrying overriding preconceptions about whether name brands are good or bad.

To me, often the hotel is an important part of the travel experience. Nevertheless, the OP should be aware that many current chain hotels are not your father's (or grandfather's) chain hotels. For instance, Starwood LC properties are unique, plus SPG partners with Design Hotels now. In addition, we could ask what the OP considers to be a chain. For example, what about Relais et Chateaux, Leading Hotels, Small Luxury Hotels, Romantik Hotels, paraders, chains like Peninsula and Raffles, or even the FHR and Virtuoso programs? Very few top hotels today are genuinely independent.

While I hate cookie cutter consistency, in some parts of the world brand standards can be reassuring, especially regarding cleanliness, safety, and food hygiene. Front desk staff are more likely to speak English and you have recourse to the chain if problems arise that cannot be resolved locally. It's also convenient to book through a chain website and get a standardized confirmation with standard terms for cancellations etc. clearly stated.

I don't go out of my way to collect hotel points, but they can be useful, especially when you're facing high rates for your travel dates. However, I greatly value top tier elite treatment at hotels, including suite upgrades, guaranteed late check out, lounge access, and sometimes free breakfast. For this reason, I increasingly seek out unique chain properties such as those in SPG's LC rather than first checking what's available through FHR or LHW.

Unique chain hotels are not limited to the upper echelons. In many places lower- and mid tier independent hotels have joined franchised brands for the benefits they offer-- primarily in greatly increased profile among travelers. For example, a few months ago I traveled to Estes Park, CO outside of Rocky Mountain National Park. Many independent hotels I remember seeing on a visit years ago are now affiliated with brands such as Best Western and Quality Inn. I considered carefully a few still-independent properties before ultimately booking with a brand named property that seemed to offer better consistency in hard and soft product than the indies.

Pretty much the same. I stay in chains for business trips and usually for U.S. personal trips, if I'm not staying with a friend or family. In Europe, I tend to prefer the non-chain hotels for the personal/local experience and generally lower rates. I've stayed in some amazing local hotels!

Same here. When we moved to Florida in the 90s, we rented down at the beach fro a couple years and discovered the fundamental incompatibility between vacationers who wanted to loudly party until 2:00am out by the pool and those of us who had to get up at 6:30am to go to work. When we bought a house, it was in an area where short term rentals were specifically excluded.

I actually find sorting by chain to be useful in big cities- it's a quick and easy cull to go from 2000+ options to a nice list of 20 or 50 or so that will give me a decent variety in terms of price and location. And if that first list doesn't seem to have any winners, I'll move on to the next chain and see how those options look. But then I'm most interested in clean, quiet, and refurbished in the past 5 years or so and am trying to screen out properties that think that mold and mildew are a part of a property's character.

I'm also digging the rise of the nicer extended stay or aparthotel chain property- reliable, generally quite new, and with a proper hotel front desk while giving more space than a standard hotel room and the kitchen area gives you proper plates and cutlery to use to eat your take out food. And if I can get a free week at a Staybridge Suites in London or Adagio in Paris because of loyalty points, it's even better.

As said up thread, many of the former mom and pop motels have been bought by the big chains. So it helps to look at a photo of the property - if it looks like the standard chain motels, it is. Best Western is a good example where there are a chain style properties and any number of semi-independent properties each with their own architecture, room layout, and style.

That being said, for work, on someone else's dime, I usually just stay at a convenient chain with preference for one from which I collect points or have status to get an upgraded room. In Europe of course it almost always non-chain hotels as that is what is available. I always have a bit of doubt in one, but then I've always been happy.

For family travel, we tend to go with non-chain motels, with emphasis on relatively low cost. We are outdoors people and generally don't care too much where we sleep as long as it is quiet and has fridge and microwave. We've done vrbo and were happy with that, but the motel search is so much easier now with sites like tripadvisor. You have to sift through the reviews but it can be well worth it. Just a few weeks ago we stayed in a real nice 6 unit motel near Joshua Tree, in a room with a really nice kitchen, that I never would have even found much less chosen without the chance to read reviews.

Lately I have also started using extended stay hotels for both work and leisure. I prefer not to eat out, as I'm working on weight control, and it's very helpful to know just how a kitchen will be stocked and how big a fridge you'll get.

I've also had some really nice family stays in higher grade hotels - Andaz near Liverpool St Station comes to mine as heavenly - using those points from the boring chains.
In other words... a mix and a bunch of work to go off-chain, but often worth it.

Airline I always stick within the alliance just because of the extra perks. When I'm travelling within NA I will stick with the big chain for points just because its hard to find independent hotels in NA and I don't like AirBnB. However, after Fairmont totally screwed me over with their new program I'm really second guessing the hotel points. When I'm travelling outside of NA I like to look for more unique places to stay but sometimes still end up at a big chain.

Best Western is unique in that it's more of a buyer's club for independent owners and operators. It's not a regular franchise model. It's where a heck of a lot of mom-and-pop hotels have gone to get pricing power on sheets and towels, amenities, etc.

The "I won't stay in a soulless chain" meme has always smacked of rampant elitism and #firstworldproblem to me. I guarantee you the housekeeper in the chain hotel needs to put food on the table just as much as the one in the B&B or the boutique hotel. @:-)

Exactly. Made my point better than I did.

It depends where I am going.

I have a thing for staying at B&Bs (chambres d'hôtes) in France and Germany where I'm comfortable with the language, customs, and consistent quality of such accomodations, and I like supporting the small guy. Gives much more flavour to my holiday. And in a similar vein, if I feel comfortable with mom-pop hotels in western Europe, I'll do that over a chain.

But I feel in places like the United States and Asia, I'd rather stick with the consistency of a major chain.

Both!
 

We do both: chase points and stay at boutique hotels, it just depends where. We travel for pleasure only: heading to Europe we will stop for a few nights in Singapore or HK, and stay at a chain, usually Starwood. Within Europe it depends on the city or area, once again. Smaller areas we go for boutiques, bigger cities the chains. This way we accumulate points and get the benefits of a free night here and there

At the risk of taking my own thread off-topic, I have to comment on 'free nights'. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Getting one night 'free' after paying for 10 or whatever, whether from a hotel chain or from a third party booking parasite, is not free. Businesses of whatever kind, do not offer Loyalty Rewards for the benefit of customers, they are for the benefit of the business. Just as a casino isn't there for the customer to win money, they're there for the house to make money. The only difference is that with Loyalty Programs, you pay in advance fora future stay at a hotel or flight on a plane or a bag of groceries.

If I sell you a bag of potatoes for $5.50 and then 10 bags down the line I give you a 'free' bag for your 'loyalty points', all that happened is you bought 11 bags at $5.00 each. None of them were free.

That is not to say no one should use Loyalty Programs. A frequent flyer with an airline or shopper at a supermarket would be foolish to not join the program since the price is going to be $5.50 whether you are in the program or not. But the program does not 'reward' the participant, it simply punishes those who are not participants. There is a difference.

I don't try to fool myself that I get anything free from Loyalty Programs however.

I agree there are some exceptions like Relais et Chateaux. However, they are exceptions, not the rule and 'the exceptions prove the rule' as the saying goes. As a general rule I don't think there is anything inconsistent in my original point that having tunnel vision about chasing chain hotel 'loyalty points' is not necessarily the travellers best choice all the time.

On a side not regarding cancellation terms MSPeconomist, today those standard terms tend to vary from 24 hours advance cancellation to totally non-cancelable, non-refundable third party bookings. I recently booked 2 hotels in 2 different countries. Both independent hotels. One wanted 24 hour advance notice of a cancellation and the other wanted non-refundable cancellation terms for a 'special package price'. Typical of what you find today. In both cases I refused the terms and told them I would only book with a 6pm on arrival day cancellation term. Both were 7 night bookings.

In your Father and Grandfather's day MSPeconomist, that was the standard terms unless you asked for a 'guaranteed late arrival' in which case you agreed to them charging you for one night if you were a 'no show' and only in that case would you then give them a credit card number to 'hold your reservation.' Those are the terms I still adhere to. Both of the hotels immediately agreed to my terms. One reception clerk even suggested, 'oh, that was a mistake, of course you can cancel without penalty Mr. X'. It is also interesting to note that neither asked me for a credit card number. I did volunteer it to one of them as it is likely I will arrive after 6pm. 'Standard terms' are simply a guideline, not a law.

The real question is why have 'standard cancellation terms' changed. https://skift.com/2017/08/16/hotel-c...-more-to-come/

They've changed because the customers today don't behave as your Father and Grandfather did MSPeconomist. They make multiple bookings and then cancel them as their plans change and/or they no show. The same as they do with flights. This may suit today's traveller but it plays havoc with the hotel and airline's management of their inventory. As a result, the hotel has to put in cancellation terms to combat those factors. The people get what the people deserve, as always.

Imagine if every hotel today still adhered to the 6pm on day of arrival as a standard policy. No credit card info required and no penalty for just not showing up! As the Hilton CEO said in the link above, "but just because customers, many of them, ultimately have been trained to do multiple bookings and do things that have created a scenario where cancellations have, in some markets, skyrocketed. They’ve got, they’ve gone way up.”

While I understand why the chains have changed their policies and do not blame them for doing so at all, I do not wish to change my policies. If I tried to tell a Hilton Hotel receptionist on the phone (I always book by phone direct with the hotel) what my terms would be for booking, how far do you think I would get? It is highly unlikely the receptionist would even have the authority to accept my terms if s/he wanted to. With an independent hotel however, that is quite different.

So when you write, "It's also convenient to book through a chain website and get a standardized confirmation with standard terms for cancellations etc. clearly stated", you may see that as a plus but I see it as a minus.

I treat travel as a value judgement. Non-chain hotels are often more interesting and cheaper. It is easy enough to get a good idea which ones from tripadvisor. If I'm staying a week somewhere, I may well choose an independent hotel.

However, there are some exceptions to this:

* In cheap countries, per-stay or per-night promotions from chains might mean you make back most or all of what your stay is worth. (e.g. IHG's Accelerate or Accor's 6k pts for 3 stays.) I am easily swayed by being able to stay somewhere effectively almost for free.

* Status perks can be enormously valuable. Most non-chain hotels shove you out before noon. If I have a 6pm flight, I consider it quite valuable to be able to come "home" in the afternoon for a shower and a snack in my room before a 4pm checkout. SPG or IHG or Accor will give me that for free, instead of having to pay for another night's accommodation.

You know what else isn't comparable? Accessibility and information about accessibility. It's immediately obvious if you check room types that the Hilton Garden Inn has accessible rooms. The Bellevue doesn't appear to even mention wheelchairs or accessibility anywhere at all. I guess the property doesn't care and the anti-discrimination laws there are poor or ineffective. Maybe the hotel is too small to have been sued, unlike Hilton. However, poor information systems and discrimination are reasons some people avoid such hotels and go for a chain which has some accessibility standards.

I hardly think a rant about wheelchair access is relevant here Kremmen. The hotel was built in 1873. Although it has been totally renovated and is up to today's standards, there are no rooms on the ground floor and nowhere you could possibly install an elevator, so no, there is no provision for wheelchair access rooms. That does not indicate however that 'the property doesn't care' or that Switzerland has poor or ineffective anti-discrimination laws'.

Your rant does indicate something however.

That's assuming that you're generating the points through staying in the property. And hey, some programs have all kinds of non-stay point earning opportunities. Sometimes, it's at a modest financial cost (the infamous original IHG 'Priceless Experiences' AMOE that got you about 50K points for less than $50 in postage); sometimes it's an opportunity cost rather than financial- I do the surveys for fun while my spousal unit is watching a tv show I'm not interested in, and will select a hotel program for that rather than get airline miles. And sometimes it's a straight out giveaway like the Marriott twitter promotions that can add up enough to get you free nights.

I'm on the low end of household incomes on FT; I'm getting good at finding the crumbs on the margin to let us travel more, and non-stay hotel points are a nice chunk of that.