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Originally Posted by Scots_Al
(Post 29584594)
Presumably he/she is referring to the provision of expensive dinners / £300 bottles of wine / whatever else is offered to buyers as, essentially, a bribe designed to induce them to make a decision based not solely on an objective assessment of price and quality, and not solely in the interests of their paymasters / shareholders.
Suppose I am going to have a final meeting with several executives of the largest sugar producer in the UK (they shall remain nameless). I fly to the UK and meet with the CEO; Executive VP Finance; Executive VP Production. It is a full day meeting. They have a very nice lunch catered in and discussion continues throughout. At the end of the day, we reach agreement and sign a contract for $2.4 million. I offer to take them to dinner to celebrate our agreement. These are not people who earn 30k per year. I don't take them to McDonald's, I take them to a restaurant they would take their wives to for a celebration. So obviously, it is going to be an upmarket restaurant. Quite possibly even a MIchelin starred restaurant. Do you think there are even many bottle of wine on the wine list for less than $300? Do you think a $300 bottle is excessive? Is it a bribe after the fact? Is it even actually enough to 'bribe' them if it was before the contract was signed? I didn't buy $300 bottles of wine before a contract for $10,000 was signed. You could certainly have argued that might have been considered a bribe in the case of someone who earned 30k and thought a $300 bottle of wine was a big deal. But don't assume a bottle of wine is going to influence someone who regularly buys such wine when taking their wife out for a birthday dinner or even just an ordinary Friday night 'date night' out. Taking customers to lunch or dinner etc. are generally done in line with their norms, not anyone else's. Reading, '$300 bottle of wine' might have sounded like a lot to some readers but that's based on their position and lifestyle, not anyone else's. Do you think I could 'bribe' Richard Branson by ordering a $300 bottle of wine? Or do you suggest I should insult him by ordering a bottle of Sainsbury's plonk? |
Aye, very good. I’m sure Branson was bowled over by your patter.
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Originally Posted by Scots_Al
(Post 29584833)
Aye, very good. I’m sure Branson was bowled over by your patter.
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Originally Posted by roberino
(Post 29339170)
We actually had an unwritten rule that, if you were happy to pin your expense report on the company notice board without being embarrassed about it then it was probably fine.
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Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis
(Post 29584690)
I read that and what I see is '18 years in one company and one role'. That tells me all I need to know.
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Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis
(Post 29584335)
Where exactly is this 'unethical, immoral and possibly illegal' activity you are referring to? I have never done any of that in order to get a sale and have never encouraged anyone else to do so. You are making a statement as if you were talking about facts, when none have been presented by me or anyone else that indicate any kind of wrong doing.
I could argue that anyone who gets FF points when flying on company business and then uses them for personal gain ie. upgrade or personal travel, is stealing from the company. I'm sure though that most people here would not see it that way, not when it is them personally that are getting the points. If you are trying to suggest that if I expensed a meal that cost more than a Big Mac, that I am acting in an unethical manner, that's just ridiculous. So tell me exactly what unethical or possibly illegal activity you are referring to. I really think you have to separate the expenses of those who work in sales vs. the expenses of those who work in any other department of a company. If you are in sales and don't know how to get anything you want put through expenses, you are in the wrong job.” Any ethical employer would be embarrassed to have hired someone behaving like this, and would take immediate action to remove them from the company. |
Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis
(Post 29584886)
LOL, and that constitutes what Scots_Al? A response to my simple explanation of how a $300 bottle of wine is not a bribe? If you can't argue the point, please don't waste your time trying to be insulting. You're not very good at it.
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Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis
(Post 29577239)
Some people think too small and other aren't even capable of thinking bigger. When you are being 'nickel and dimed' over expenses, it is because you are working with nickels and dimes.
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Dulciusesasperis-
Your logic coincides with the quote of a businessman and former talk show host Bruce Williams who I highly respected. "A commissioned sales job, is the only job in which you are paid exactly what you are worth." |
My favorite quote from the miserly former Chairman at our company:
"When you get to your hotel room and slide open the window drapes, if you're not looking at the bumper of your car, you spent too much on your room." |
Originally Posted by jb_in_ma
(Post 29585516)
My favorite quote from the miserly former Chairman at our company:
"When you get to your hotel room and slide open the window drapes, if you're not looking at the bumper of your car, you spent too much on your room." |
Originally Posted by Eltham
(Post 29585240)
Your focus on tailoring the cost of the bribe to your perception of the recipient is very telling. As is the $ value of sales that you seem to think are impressive. As for my sales figures, well they are 30+ years ago. Back then, I think most people would have considered them impressive. They were good enough to earn me enough to be able to retire in my early 40s. How's your retirement plan going? |
My favorite saying is................."quit tripping over dollar bills to pick up nickels !!!"
Originally Posted by Eltham
Any ethical employer would be embarrassed to have hired someone behaving like this, and would take immediate action to remove them from the company.
There is a distinct difference between being outright flagrant and stupid with money, and knowing when to spend it and how.......but companies that look to make your life as minimal and miserable as possible deserve what they get in return........ |
Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis
(Post 29585676)
Eltham, you must live in a really small bubble if you think tailoring the choice of where you go for dinner with a client constitutes a bribe. Maybe you need to look up what the word bribe actually means. In any definition of the word, what is understood is that the size of the bribe must be large enough to induce someone to act in your favour. I suppose there is someone, somewhere who would make a decision in your favour if you bought a $300 bottle of wine for then to have with dinner but I've never met any. I guess you and I live in very different worlds and at very different points on the lifestyle scale.
As for my sales figures, well they are 30+ years ago. Back then, I think most people would have considered them impressive. They were good enough to earn me enough to be able to retire in my early 40s. How's your retirement plan going? |
Originally Posted by KDS777
(Post 29585683)
My favorite saying is................."quit tripping over dollar bills to pick up nickels !!!"
There's nothing unethical here. As a former top producing salesman myself I wouldn't work for a company that "pencilled" me whenever they had the chance. I have walked off such a 6 figure job. Those organizations get known real quick, and they eventually deteriorate into a revolving door employment scenario and/or survive despite their best efforts to prematurely extinguish themselves. There is a distinct difference between being outright flagrant and stupid with money, and knowing when to spend it and how.......but companies that look to make your life as minimal and miserable as possible deserve what they get in return........ |
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