I was thinking about J flat beds instead of F beds. Should have made that clear. :) But thanks for the history of lie flat seats.

US carriers are usually 2 steps behind. They are just getting their fleets into lie flat, IFE and in seat power where other carriers are already upgrading to the next level. AC started installing lie flat pods in 2006, and they were behind VS et al. They are about to announce the 2nd generation updates for next year. AF just announced a total overhaul of its fleet to match Middle East carriers.

Two steps behind whom? Some of the largest European carriers are also first putting true lie-flats into business-class cabins.



The overhaul will take a while to implement and Air France has fairly mediocre angled lie-flats in use now.

Well.... two steps behind BA for a start but as you say, some of the other European airlines are as far behind as some of the US ones. There are leaders and followers both sides of the pond.

I agree. I think that one factor is the fact that airlines with larger fleets take longer to complete the retrofit. Another factor may be the mergers... all US majors have gone through a merger and there are other aspects that the airlines have been taking care of first. As a traveler, I would certainly choose to fly a non-US carrier in J while they're getting their act together (though I prefer EU carriers anyway).

In terms of other facilities, such as PTV, the ones who have installed the systems later tend to have nicer (newer) systems. Some of the earlier IFE systems have smaller screens and less content. Still better than nothing...

AC isn't exactly the leader in airline innovation and they have had IFE, In seat power, and lie flat pods (Widebody) for over 10 years. Even their CRJs have IFE. AC offered wifi on certain flights across the US (The Canadian version of the FCC hasn't authorized its use over Canadian airspace) even before it was allowed to in its own country.

Asia was the original trendsetter. I won't even mention how far ahead companies like SQ are in both hard and soft product. Now the Asian carries are being 'one-upted by the Middle East carriers.

I flew LX a few years back and all aisle access life flat J class with massage function. F class looked like it was almost like a little suite. Then I fly 'First' on UA to Hawaii (757) and 'First' on UA GUM-HNL-ORD (777). Recliners (no where near lie flat) no IFE. Empower ports that require an adaptor... not even a footrest!!

It's not completely fair, however, to compare United's domestic (to Hawaii) first with Swiss' long-haul J product.

OK. Agreed. But GUM-HNL-ORD on a 777? And yes, these are Domestic 777s but that a really long flight for nothing more than a wider seat and better food. And still not even a footrest.

I don't disagree that it wouldn't be nice for the seats to be better (as well as the service) but it's sold as a domestic first product, just like European short-haul business class is sold as European business class and the seats (the same as coach) will never be as nice as the first-class seats on a flight of the same length on a U.S. carrier.

Europe's single isle product is, indeed a regular seat with the middle blocked out (albeit slightly wider because of no armrests. Most flights are under 2 hours, so its not the same comparison. AC single aisle product has 'real' J seats with IFE & power ports. When European airlines use wide-body planes intra-Europe, its the same interior as the long haul product. Flew LX A340 and TK A330 intra-Europe and the J was the same product as long haul (although I was sitting in Y). AC uses A330 & 777 on YUL-YYZ (1 hour) and YUL/YYZ to YVR (transcontinental... sort of) and they have pods with lie flat seats. These airlines don't have a domestic (intra-Europe) wide body version.

The only reason US Legacy carriers have TATL/TPAC versions of their wide body is because they have competition from European/Pacific carriers. I don't know if they all got together and decided 'OK; we have to offer something more overseas, but if we all keep our crappy interiors on Domestic routes, then people won't have a choice and will put up with this garbage because they don't have a choice.'

UA (IIRC) upgraded their ps service on 2013 and AA just launched lie flat transcon with the A321s? I don't call that trendsetting.

Not sure how this is not the same comparison (the one that I made). It most definitely is apples to apples. Your post goes off on a tangent beyond my comparison, however.

Apologies. My original post on the subject was in regards to someone stating that the US was on the forefront of new products. Hadn't noticed the change in person. My bad.