When visiting Turkey, and other places, keep in mind that haggling is not confined to the markets and bazars. Whether you enter one of the many outlet stores (which you should, it's dirt cheap), or if you're in an upmarket store in a posh mall you should never take the price printed on the label as anything than a rough suggestion. I've never bought anything at "list" in Turkey, and I've been going for more than 30 times and have purchased everything from a pair of briefs over a designer label suit to a washing machine to a car!

Only difference is you don't counter-offer with 20-30% of what a bazar vendor asks for when you're in a real shop, but 20-30% below list is absolutely a fair offer. If the shop attendant can't help you, ask for the manager. Helps a lot if you speak Turkish, or have someone with you who does, it must be added.

Why do you spoil this thread by lecturing me about your fundamentalist religious ethics? I don't care what Baba Mezi's or Papa Mezi's opinion is. Go lecture Bernie Madoff about Jewish ethics.

Confirmed. They effectively charge about 0.5% or less in commission. Of course they take USD. What money changer in the world does not?

I disagree. Some of the best rates I've ever seen in the world were from money changers in the grand bazaar.

Yes, all bargaining should be done in Turkish lira. Once you have settled on a price, ask the vendor to hold the item for a few minutes while you go change money.

I meant do some of the sellers take Yankee dollars? I have shopped overseas many times using $$$ without having to exchange them.

If haggling, I really wouldn't. I think that would mean a 10-20% mark up on price immediately.

Sorry, I misread your statement.

Yes, some sellers to take USD. What I would do is bargain in Lira to get the best possible price. Once you arrive at a final price, ask them what rate they give for USD. If you are unhappy with their rate, tell them to hold on to the goods while you quickly go and convert at a money changer.

Not trying to lecture you and, actually, I'm an atheist; ethics are a separate matter.

Have fun on your trip and stay safe.

I agree with what most people posted. Living in China I've learned to bargain and bargain hard.

- Take lots of small bills with you so you have exact change. I usually put the majority in a separate pocket/pouch in my bag and just keep the bare minimum in my wallet so when I go to pay it doesn't look like I have tons of cash on me. Makes me feel like an a** if I bargain to the death then show them a wad of cash
- In bargaining countries, almost everything is up for negotiation. If you're not sure, you can always ask if they can do a little bit better or mention that the item is a little expensive. It'll be pretty obvious if the sticker price is going to hold
- Don't listen to hard and fast rules about 10% or 50%. As people mentioned, sometimes vendors start with outrageous prices. Decide what you want to pay before starting to negotiate and don't go above that. A good deal is a relative thing.
- A good way to find out bottom prices is to bargain very hard at the first stall you see that has the item you want. Walk away at a very low price and if they don't change their mind you know you have to increase the price slightly at the next place.
- Learn bargaining culture. Some countries it helps to be firm, some they prefer a more friendly style - ie in Thailand you're going to get a better deal if you're nice and smile, in China you can act offended and throw the calculator (not recommended but it does work)
- Volume always leads to price decreases. I usually find out what the cheapest price is for buying one, then negotiate for a larger volume
- Definitely don't admit to being American - that leads to an automatic price increase
- Don't get frustrated. It's all in good fun. Can't tell you how many times I've seen (American) tourists at the fake market here getting annoyed by the barganing so just agreeing to pay the first price. Let's face it, you're not going to be buying anything essential so if you're not having fun just walk away and try again later

It was China I learned that it could be fun. Until China, I had the guilt thing some people above have talked about. In China, it was just a battle - one I was always going to lose technically, but would still pay what I wanted for the items and so I could win too.

What I found hardest in China was going out from Beijing to the hinterlands, where they were not so used to tourists, asking the price of something and it starting below what I had already decided was my maximum price :eek: I found it really hard to haggle hard when I was already happy to pay the price at the opening offer :o

I negotiate deals for a living (sort of like haggling...).

Souvenir market haggling is more of an art than a science.
I sympathise with most of the tips offered above.
Some thoughts:
- There are no hard and fast rules about what percent to coutner with.
- Markets where there are multiple sellers selling the same thing, and where there are mostly local shoppers as opposed to a tourist-friendly bazaar, are by far the best. (i.e. avoid the Little India night market in Kuala Lumpuir, avoid buying anything in Tangiers Morocco, avoid buying things from stalls set up right near or in tourist attractions, and DEFINITELY avoid shops that your organised tour or tour guide takes you to, especially if there are no competitors around, etc..)
- If time is not an issue, you can never know too many competitors price points. Just about all souvenir-like products of interest to travelers are usually available from many sellers, usually in more than one location. I never buy from the first or second seller. At a minimum I buy from a third, and only if I have a rough idea of what a product should cost. I usually like to get an idea of value for the same product from multiple markets locations ( some entire markets can have a group mindset of high markups)
- Depending on the circumstances, I use different approaches - either hard grinding, (with a bit of theatrics/white lies such as what someone else offered for the same product elsewhere - but only if I'm sure of competitor prices) or the friendly approach if I feel like the seller is starting with a very reasonable price.
- Always bargain in the local currency. This goes without saying.
- Consider pretending like you're from a non-North American/non-European country - and definitely not from the USA. I.E. If you're white, pretend you're from an east european country (though not Russia as a lot of sellers know Russian in places like Sinai, Israel, south east Turkey, Italy, Greece, Harbin in China, etc..)
- A good rule of thumb is to know the approximate value of some commodity/fungible souvenirs - so you can compare how high each seller's opening price for the same commodity souvenir is. This will give you an idea of their general pricing approach. I.E. A small commodity souvenir fridge magnet should cost between 0.5 and 1.5 USD, depending on the locale.
- If you feel very confident based on knowing prices that one seller is giving you extremely reasonable opening prices, tell them you realize they are beign reasonable and that you appreciate it and trust them. Establish rapport and buy a lot of products from that seller (but you have to be SURE he 's not gouging). I once had such a seller in Amman, Jordan. Having looked around before, I KNEW that this guy was giving me really really good prices. I bought maybe two dozen things from him. At one point, after agreeing to a price on a product and paying him for it, he gave me back an amount with a smile saying I had overpaid on that last item. It was confirmed to me that he wasn't gouging me because later he told me I had to leave as the shop was closing down for the night - even though I was about to buy more things.
- There are tons of ways to establish rapport with someone who you KNOW is giving yougood opening prices - knowing a few words in the person's language is a good way (like "yalla Khabibi" in Arabic).
- Looking unique things up on Ebay, particularly from sellers located in that region, is a good trick for higher prices items.
- Some countries have fixed price stalls/stores for souvenies - use that price knowledge when bargaining for objects that are hard to assess.
- Avoid carpets and other opaque things whose quality/value is extremely difficult to assess for you. Those are the ones with the higher margins for sellers - as they can insist on huge markups (i.e. 1000% or more) and often enough get a tourist to agree to that price. They know you can't assess true value.
- In Morocco where sellers are EXTREMELY aggressive/persistent, the only line that worked for me to instantly get rid of a persisten seller (I was a man shopping on my own)was to say, "My wife is not with me right now, I can't buy anythign without her - but I would like to get an idea of your price for this". A lot of male sellers instantly sympathised with that - as it's common in Morocco (and likely other Maghreb countries) for husbands not to buy anything without a wife's approval.

- About feeling guilty. I too had that "moment" where I started to question why I grind sellers so much. I now pay close attention to who is a professional seller or an employee of a stall owner, and who is just someone on their own peddling household things. My own father had to sell household things on the streets for a few months when I was younger and he had to sell a family heirloom to a pawnbroker.
I still grind professional sellers though, and very occasionally feel some guilt when the amounts haglled over are low (a dollar or so).
I had a couple situations where I was essentially taking advanatge of a seller's ignorance. One in India stands out. (It's complicated to fully explain, it involves someone who didn't fully understand English and mistakenly agreed to a price below-cost, but then did not dare speak up to me and my friend to get his fair cost because we were foreigners and my friend was yelling about it.)
One of the only episodes about which I feel really guilty is in Nepal. I saw a sadhu couple ask a tourist couple for 10 rupees (about 10 US cents) to allow them to take a photo with them. When I approached to get my photo taken with the sadhu couple, they asked me for 20 rupees (about 20 US cents). I didn't do the conversion right in my mind and I thought at the time that they were asking me for 2 USD instead of 1 USD. I made a big deal about the other couple having paid less. They agreed to 10 rupees. Then when time came to pay, they asked for 20 rupees again gesturing that they needed to eat. Thinking that they were not following through on their promise (which they weren't) and thinking it was 2 USD versus 1 USD (rather than 20 cents versus 10 cents), I made a scandal about only agreeing to pay 10 rupees, in the presence of other foreigners. I ended up paying 15 rupees, and only later after I stormed away did I realise that I was yelling at dirt-poor sadhus (i.e. people who took a vow of poverty) in front of foreigners over literally one dime when they were gesturing that they needed to eat!

When I grind too much, and the seller starts complaining earnestly (you can sometimes see it in their eyes) about the cost of their rent being high, I usually stop grinding and just accept their last price - assuming it's reasonable.

I try not to waste sellers' time too much if I will not buy, i.e. I dont enter negotiations if I have no intention of buying.

BTW, I appreciate the ethics lesson from uszkanni - it's interesting.

Great post, VIArail. Anyone needing an introduction to haggling should print that out!

My experience from living abroad tells me that shopkeepers are more inclined to give you a fair price if they know you know the going rates.

Being in Asia, the first price I was given was always the "rich tourist" price. When I countered with a few phrases in the local language, the price came down right away.

I agree that any haggling should be done in the local currency... I remember overhearing American tourists asking a merchant if the price of 200 on a fake North Face jacket was "in American or Chinese dollars". (facepalm)

Huh? You do have as much time as VIArail. There are 24 hours in a day for all of us.

When that happened I just payed. Another issue in the "not touristic places" in China that I found was that they didn't speak a word English, so haggling was difficult. At least for me - not used to haggling, don't like it and was happy to pay the price they asked for...:)

With that said, when I went to the pearl marked and asked for their prices I was shocked. I buy freshwater pearls directly from the factory in China. I can promise you, they DO earn a lot even after you think you have gotten a good deal... :-D

Xx.

Apparently as an American then I'm screwed. And I have to say, I'm shocked! Yes shocked to hear that I have a duty to bargain to the bitter end or else I'll screw the economy. A heavy burden to bear on these old shoulders.
;)

I go to markets to have fun and people watch. I take my time to watch and price out things before I start to bargain. The huge Chinese markets like the weekend "antique market" in Beijing are the most challenging as they deal with so many tourists. I frequently find similar things in smaller cities for a much better price.

And when I'm seriously looking for a big item like a custom made leather jacket or a suit, I shop the fabric market to see what I like and then send in the calvary. My partner is Chinese and will go do the hard bargaining.

But for everyday small items I do the bargaining with the techniques you all have discussed.

I find the phrase "very expensive" is alway a good thing to mutter in the local language before starting the negatiation. I always start with a ridiculously low price and work up without wasting too much time if they dont come near your perceived value. After about four bids I will start to slowly waqlk away as many people here suggest. You get the best price bid when you are about 10 meters away and you see them heading into their stall. Thats the time to buy or move on.