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General Dreamliner FAQ and Information Thread
EDIT:
The Dreamliner was grounded (as everyone knows) on 16 Jan. On March 12, the FAA announced that it would allow Boeing to begin a certification plan that would lead to the aircraft's return for passenger service. On March 16, Boeing provided much greater detail about the battery fix. ORIGINAL TEXT: Preface: As some of you here know, I was to fly on LOT's inaugural Chicago-Wawsaw flight this past Wednesday. It came down to the wire (the FAA directive didn't cover LOT's flight) but LOT opted to cancel. Given that all of the Dreamliner coverage was focusing on the battery issue and not on the plane's innovations at that point, and since I've flown the Dreamliner multiple times before, I decided to put together a FAQ that looks at the plane's innovations as well as explains the current problems and added an extensive virtual tour (10 multimedia slide shows). I thought it would be a good idea to discuss the 787's innovations here since they are getting buried by the battery news (which does warrant attention of course as well but that's not the point of this thread). Boeing 787 Dreamliner Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) and Virtual Tour 1.) What is different about the Dreamliner? 2.) Which airlines currently operate the Dreamliner and when did each first put the aircraft into service? 3.) Which airlines have the Dreamliner on order? ... 7.) What is the Dreamliner like inside? 8.) What is different in flight? ….. http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler....79-300x199.jpg http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler....51-199x300.jpg http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler....ED-300x218.jpg |
Nice compendium on the Dreamliner!
The battery explanaiton is pretty good as well.
Originally Posted by Jonathan Spira
6.) What is different about the batteries in the Dreamliner?
The Boeing 787 Dreamliner has more electrical systems than earlier aircraft. These systems perform a variety of tasks including de-icing the wings, pressurizing the cabin, and operating hydraulic pumps. In addition, the 787 has electric brakes while other aircraft have hydraulic ones. The Dreamliner has six generators that generate a total of 1.45 megawatts, enough to power 400 homes. The aircraft has two main lithium-ion batteries, each roughly twice the size of a standard car battery. One, located in the front of the aircraft, supplies power for the plane’s startup functions and ground operations and also serves as backup power for the electrical brakes. The second is in the back of the plane and is used to start the aircraft’s auxiliary power supply, which is a small engine that powers the plane while it is on the ground. Malfunctions have been reported with both batteries. The BOS 787 had apparently generated heavy battery draw in starting the auxiliary power unit on the ground; the recharging seems to have been tat too high a rate for the battery to safely tolerate. When lithium battery electrolyte overheats, as I understand the process it expands it generates oxygen and gets very hot - which explains why the JL Boston 787 battery heated to the point of deformation and why the firefighters took 40 minutes to put the fire out. (As well, the battery compartments in the 787 are not provided with Halon fire extinguishing capability.) There is also a possibility the lithium cobalt oxide electrodes contribute to the overhearing issues. That could necessitate battery redesign. http://goldsea.com/Text/images/10051.jpg JL 787 APU battery Link to how lithium ion batteries work. Link to further explanation of lithium ion and the 787 battery This paradoxically may be a relatively good thing, because it will require a relatively easy fix, rather than necessitating an adaptation of a different (non lithium ion) battery. (The ANA battery is reported to have "leaked", but that can well be related to electrolyte heating and expansion as well.) |
Sunday NTSB Update
Sunday NTSB Update, hot off the press...
NTSB: “No Obvious Anomalies” in Dreamliner Backup Battery The backup battery for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft whose primary battery caught fire while parked at Boston’s Logan Airport had “no obvious anomalies” according to an update issued by the National Transportation Safety Board on Sunday. The findings followed the completion of a “cursory comparative exam” of the battery. The agency said a thorough tear down and test sequence of non-destructive examinations will take place in the coming weeks.... |
in your link:
"The liquid electrolytes used in all conventional Li batteries are inherently flammable, regardless of chemistry. " i'm not too certain i buy that statement. are all Li batteries conventional? or is this person only going off message because Li is unstable? the current count of Li compound batteries out there number over 100,000,000. iron(Fe) and aluminum(Al) in powdered form is unstable, as are coal, wood and flour. the lithium used in these batteries is tied up in a compound that i have read is not flammable airbus has a bunch of small versions of this same battery chemistry from the same manufacturer in a number of in their planes. |
More updates, this time from Japanese regulators
Japanese Regulators End Dreamliner Battery Maker Investigation with No Findings Japan’s air safety regulators have completed a review into quality control at GS Yuasa, the manufacturer of lithium-ion batteries for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. The process, which was conducted in concert with U.S. authorities, concluded without any findings that point to corrective action that GS Yuasa or Boeing could take... |
Today's update:
Boeing Gets FAA Approval for Certification Plan for Dreamliner Battery Solution Boeing announced that it has received approval from the Federal Aviation Administration to implement its plan to test and certify improvements to the 787 Dreamliner’s lithium-ion battery system. Failures of the high-tech batteries resulted in smoke and fire in two separate instances. The decision to allow the testing comes roughly two months after the entire fleet of Dreamliners was grounded. ... |
Originally Posted by slawecki
(Post 20136935)
in your link:
"The liquid electrolytes used in all conventional Li batteries are inherently flammable, regardless of chemistry. " i'm not too certain i buy that statement. are all Li batteries conventional? or is this person only going off message because Li is unstable? the current count of Li compound batteries out there number over 100,000,000. iron(Fe) and aluminum(Al) in powdered form is unstable, as are coal, wood and flour. the lithium used in these batteries is tied up in a compound that i have read is not flammable airbus has a bunch of small versions of this same battery chemistry from the same manufacturer in a number of in their planes. |
Boeing has provided additional details on the battery fix:
Boeing Releases More Details on Dreamliner Battery Fix Boeing released additional details about its plans to revise the design of the trouble-prone lithium-ion batteries that caused two fires that resulted in the worldwide grounding of the Dreamliner fleet. The changes and improvements will add several layers of safety and could be ready to be deployed to the fleet, pending FAA approval, in a matter of weeks..... |
Originally Posted by jspira
(Post 20081806)
I thought it would be a good idea to discuss the 787's innovations here since they are getting buried by the battery news (which does warrant attention of course as well but that's not the point of this thread).
Originally Posted by jspira
(Post 20135591)
Originally Posted by jspira
(Post 20138271)
Originally Posted by jspira
(Post 20408814)
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More news, namely that the 787 has passed its FAA mandated tests and the decision as to whether it can resume commercial flying is now in the hands of regulators.
Boeing Completes Final Dreamliner Test Flight, Looks to Resume Service by June Boeing said that it had completed the required testing of the Dreamliner’s redesigned battery system Friday. The airframe maker said it will deliver the results of Friday’s flight and other recent ground and laboratory testing to the FAA “in the coming days.”.... <SNIP> |
It looks like the Dreamliner will soon be flying again as some airlines have announced that it is back on the schedule, in one case as soon as this month.
Airlines Prepare to Relaunch Their Dreamliners: ANA, Qatar, United Schedule First Flights |
Sources are saying that the Dreamliner's grounding will be lifted tomorrow.
FAA Expected to Approve Dreamliner Battery Fix, Lift Grounding |
Taxiing to the runway at ORD today and there's a LOT 787 sitting out next to the INTL terminal.
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As expected...
Boeing 787 Dreamliner Cleared For Flight The Federal Aviation Administration approved Boeing’s plan for a series of fixes to the advanced lithium-ion batteries on its 787 Dreamliner aircraft on Friday, a move that will allow the grounded planes to return to passenger service in the near future. Boeing will also be able to resume deliveries of new Dreamliners to its customers.... <SNIP> |
Given all of the news around the Dreamliner, I put together a brief look back at the problems and events of the past 3+ months.
Boeing’s Dreamliner: What Went Wrong and the Road Back http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler....ED-300x218.jpg |
And one of the last pieces of the puzzle has come together...
FAA Issues Airworthiness Directive Allowing Dreamliner to Fly Ending a three-month long saga that kept Boeing’s high-tech 787 Dreamliner grounded, the Federal Aviation Administration Thursday issued an airworthiness directive that formally approved of Boeing’s battery redesign and allows the aircraft to return to the skies once that fix has been implemented on a particular plane. <SNIP> |
Full details from CNN:
Dreamliners Inching Toward The Runway The FAA stated that any 787's return to service would only take place after the agency monitors modifications of the aircraft in the U.S. fleet and inspects the work. "An FAA inspector will have to accept the work before the airplane technically is in compliance with the (directive)," said FAA spokesman Les Dorr. ... The directive requires that 787 operators install "main battery and auxiliary power unit battery enclosures (APU) and environmental control system (ECS) ducts; and replacing the main battery, the APU battery and their respective battery chargers." "Once modifications are completed on individual airplanes, our customers will determine, with their regulatory authorities, when to return their 787s to service," said Birtel. |
Boeing 787 Dreamliner returns to service in Ethiopia flight
An Ethiopian Airlines 787 Dreamliner has flown from Addis Ababa to Nairobi, the first commercial flight by the Boeing aircraft since all 787s were grounded in January. |
All 8 operators have made some provisions for a Dreamliner relaunch:
The Complete Guide to the Dreamliner Relaunch After four months of hand wringing and headlines, the Federal Aviation Administration approved Boeing’s retrofit battery-system design for the 787 Dreamliner on April 19. This move allowed Boeing and the eight airlines that operate the high-tech aircraft to begin modifying the 50 that have been delivered and were grounded in January. Ethiopian Airlines became the first operator to restart commercial flights on April 27, followed by Qatar Airways on May 1. The two largest Dreamliner operators, All Nippon Airways, which owns 17 of the jets, and Japan Airlines, which has seven, are in Japan and will start up flights in June.... |
Boeing Rolls Out First 787-9 Dreamliner
Headline says it all... here's hoping the 787-9 will be more trouble-free in its first few years.
Boeing’s First 787-9 Dreamliner Rolls Out Boeing announced that it has completed the manufacture of the first 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft. The new plane rolled out of the airplane manufacturer’s Everett, Washington factory on Saturday to the flight line. In the coming weeks, Boeing employees will be preparing it for its first flight later this summer.... <SNIP> |
Dreamliner 787-9 rolls out
The latest to join the family. The extended Dreamliner is now out for test flights. Don't know about you, but I am thrilled.http://www.boeing.com/boeing/return%20false.
Promo pic from Boeing. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...uee-portal.jpg |
Wow! It's gorgeous!!! I can't wait to fly. Looking forward to it.
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Have all the bugs from the 788 been worked out before moving on to a new version?
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Dreamliner 787-9 rolls out
Kick the tires and light the fires!
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Originally Posted by travelinmanS
(Post 21348606)
Kick the tires and light the fires!
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Originally Posted by etch5895
(Post 21347655)
Have all the bugs from the 788 been worked out before moving on to a new version?
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Fuselage panel falls from [Air India] Boeing 787 Dreamliner in flight
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,6643248.story Not much detail in this article, although I'm inclined to think it has to do with ground crew error moreso than any sort of assembly error or inherent issue with the aircraft integrity itself. |
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