Actually, I've never once heard anyone say we should tip them because of their base wages. :confused: I have no idea what they're paid nor how efficiently or competitively that labor market functions. As an outsider, it seems like it's a gig everybody wants at one point in their life or another, leading me to believe that the overall pay including tips is relatively good. I'm in the minority amongst my friends in that I never worked as a waiter or, once old enough to do so, a bartender.

I suspect that tipping entirely predates the concept of governments manipulating labor markets via a minimum wage but don't really know that for certain.

Imagine the service one would get at restaurants if all the waiters got minimum wage and nothing more :(

In reality all of us decent tippers are subsidizing the cheap skates who don't tip. :td:

You're clearly very "successful" at what you do, with your sharply formed intellectual arguments on the science of tipping and all...

Huh? Are you joking? That's where statements like "their livelihood depends on it!" and "you didn't tip me enough so I can't feed my kids!" comes from. That's why someone just said, "So I'll go ahead and lower your wages to $3.75 an hour. Is that ok"? The assumption is that waiters make less than minimum wage which is why it's a job where tipping is expected. And in most states they DO make less than minimum wage so it makes sense to tip. In the states where they don't, it doesn't. But it's too engrained in the culture now to change it.

It's nice that you think of others. I guess you're better than me, BUT, we can't feed them all and I don't even try.

If a person is not happy with their job, let them work harder for a better job.

I will not be forced to pay 20% tip without my consent. Restaurants adding tip "on my behalf" are playing people like fools. As soon as I see this, I ask them to get rid of that charge from the bill and they do.

I own a small Pizzeria and Bar in Chicago near Loyola University.My bartenders and servers are paid $5.00/hour.From credit card purchases I can see that most my staff make an average of 30 % gratuity.Not bad in my eyes,and...they deserve it.Though my place has been around for last 40 years and the local regulars tend to tip better as it is their "watering hole",even the kids from Loyola,be-it on Mom and Dad's dime tip very well.
I have an almost non existant turn over rate with staff as i treat them well and obviously our customers do too.

About 5 years ago at a moderately priced Indian restaurant in London I noticed that the menu said that a 15% service charge would be added.

After a very average meal with very average service the bill was presented with the waiter telling me quite clearly "service not included". When I examined the bill I could see that 15% had already been added. I told the waiter this and he bluntly said "we don't get that". I explained that wasn't my problem and left.

I've never been back, and nor would I. Further I've advised others about the place. Rip off.

No. Not joking. I've never had a waiter talk to me about my tip and their kids or livelihood. Yes, I'm aware it comprises a majority of their wages, but the way you frame it - "that's why we tip them" - is logically incorrect.

You're basing your argument off of random OMNI posts? LOL.

Again, I really don't think the causality is the way you describe it. The minimum wage in the U.S. came into being in the mid 1930's. I'm not sure when/where waitstaff became exempt from it (if it wasn't that way at the law's inception). Lots of articles talk about the origins of tipping...first page of Google results has a few theories that get you at least back to the medieval times.

I don't think that tipping makes any more or less sense based on whether the state has a minimum wage applicable to waiters. Culturally, the custom makes the same amount of sense everywhere within that culture... (For what it's worth, I *don't* believe it's the most economically efficient system for compensating waiters, but I guess there are other positive elements of tipping that have made us culturally choose that trade-off.)

People who tip or not based on their own decision factors are not "cheap skates", they are just not one of the sheep who tip no matter what.

Whether you've had it happen or not is irrelevant. Someone in this very thread had it happen, ergo one of the reasons at least one waiter expects to get a certain tip is so they can make a livable wage. It's not a large leap to surmise that others think the same.

My main point was that's why people try to demonize those who don't tip as "bad" people. It's because they are withholding a "living wage" from waiters by not tipping. So far we've seen someone liken non-tippers to those who wouldn't give up their seat for an elderly person. Just wait, I'm sure more jibes are coming.

We're not in OMNI. :D

Do a google search on tipping and find discussions about it on the net. The waiters always mention their low base wage as the main reason they rely on tips.

And, again, it doesn't matter what came first. The point is most people today feel tipping is a necessity because of the low wages that wait staff make. It doesn't mean it's the ONLY reason, but it is one of the main reasons.

Yes, people have accepted giving large tips as a reward for good service in hopes that it will get them even better service next time around. My main objection is the people who deem tipping necessary to be considered a "good" person but then can't explain why it's morally necessary to tip the waiter who makes at least minimum wage but not the person who bags your groceries who makes the same.

I've never said everyone deserves a big tip, but the fact is that servers routinely work 12 hour shifts for well below minimum wage. Leaving no tip because you are successful and like to tell everyone about it DOES make you extremely selfish, whatever rationalization you try to use. Protesting the absurdities of the system by not tipping doesn't help anyone, except your bank account. I agree that the system is out of whack, but go lobby the government to force restaurants to pay minimum wage, don't take it out on a defenseless server. If the service is terrible, tip them less than you would tip a good server, and maybe tell the manager, but if you've got the time to bleat about how successful you are on an anonymous forum of mostly rich frequent flyers, I think you can spare a few dollars on a college student who is trying to not drown in $200,000 of tuition costs.

Once again, a serious attempt at a thread to examine a specific angle regarding tipping gets hijacked by the intellectually-challenged who simply can't resist an opportunity to try to tell others how to behave, predictably sinking back down to the lowest common denominator tip-thread banality. :td:

I assume that those who say that waiters should just try harder to get better jobs if they want to be paid more are not the same people that whine about not getting free upgrades when they fly.

I hope you enjoy someone else's saliva in your food.

So you tip because you are scared that people will spit in your food? :confused: