Limiting Reclining in Y
 

What do you think about the idea of having airlines disable the recline feature of an airplane's seats in sections of the plane with less than a 32 inch pitch? While I understand that the recline feature helps some folks sleep, it's a real pain the the #@$@* for those that would like to actually use their tray tables during a flight to get some work accomplished. It's also an issue for those with long legs.

Does anyone agree? Should this go into the next Passenger Rights bill?

I think it's a terrible idea, and I would not fly an airline if I couldn't recline at all. There's a reason the cabin crew tells you to bring your seat back to the full upright and uncomfortable position for takeoff and landing.

Yes! Got this in before the thread devolves to another "Let's all recline/You recliners are jerks" free-for-all and gets closed. :D

I think it's a great idea for short flights, say maximum 90-120 minutes.

I don't mind the idea on short flights. It's long haul flights that I would object to not being able to recline. That little bit of recline makes a huge difference when trying to sleep. Or at least it does for me.

I would be fine if folks wished to pay a premium for a shorter-pitch, non-reclining row of seats. ^

The excess costs could be justified by the extra productivity (no laptop screen issues).

:td::td: to this horrible idea.

Hello. It's an airplane, not your office. If you can't ever turn it off, I think you need to get professional help. If you're that important, you would be on a private jet. And you're so not that important. Yes, that means all of us.

We have time to post on the internet and screw around on a message board. Stop pretending that there is never a minute of the day, even on an airplane, when you're too important to relax.

If you have long legs or you're otherwise a POS, buy a first class ticket. If you are pretending to work thinking that you're impressing anyone, just please stop. I have never seen any serious work done on the computer of any of my seatmates. It was always stuff that it wouldn't matter if it was done or not, like drying dishes. Hello, the dishes will dry whether you do it or not. Same for those pie charts. It really doesn't matter whether you look at them or not on the airplane. If you look at them on the ground, you'll look at them FASTER. You save no time doing that stuff in the air, and you impress no one, except in a negative way.

Sleeping serves a purpose. "Working" on an airplane serves no purpose. You're only kidding yourself, and if you realized what you looked like to those around you, you'd feel pretty foolish.

I've more or less stopped even thinking about reclining on short flights now, it's only when the person in front of me does one of those fast and full reclines three seconds after take-off that I even consider it.

For long-haul flights I only go business class now, and the reclining thing was one of the major factors in my initial decision to do this. I don't have to worry about the person in front of me slamming his seat into me, and I can recline without being concerned that I'm making the passenger behind me uncomfortable. As a bonus, I don't end up with dandruff in my lap (or in my meal) from the PYT in front of me who insists on flicking her hair all around the cabin.

Terrible idea..

The recline imo currently is not enough.. but not having recline would be a non starter

Dandruff flying..:D

I've never had the snowy experience..

That's upping the budget quite a bit, reclining being of the main reasons for your choice of business class seats..

If your company expects you to work on a flight then you should expect them to put you in business class. Alternatively, you could be one of those people who leaves all their prep work for a trip until the last minute and then blames those around you on the plane for not getting it done in time.

Its amazing to me that employees expect business class.. jmho..

Business Class costs multiple times more than a coach seat.. as a business owner, I don't fly business, and see the value of flying coach.. As a budget stalwart, I find bursting the purse strings for an employee to be comfortable, would be better spent at say, a raise, or bonus for the employee for a job well done?

My point was, that if that is the case then the employer cannot expect their employees to work on a flight.

There are many reasons, reclining is one of them. I'm happy to use a big percentage of my budget on the flight when I travel long-haul, I love flying (as long as I can fly in the J cabin), so there ya go.

My company actually has an interesting take on this. We do a detailed travel plan each quarter including all trips we need to make plus a contingency for one or two unexpected trips and work out a budget which then gets approved by management. We can then fly in whatever class we like and stay in whatever hotel we like, but if we go over the cap then that's a misconduct offence. It gives the employees the flexibility to give and take depending on the circumstances and everyone seems to be happier with this system. Two years ago the company was tightening its belt and offered a 20% increase on bonus for anyone who was 30% below their cap in all four quarters. Most travelling employees managed this, were ecstatic with the bonus increase and the company saved money overall.

If you travel J you can usually hit the ground running, so for long-haul I would see it as good business sense. My travel these days is all for leisure, but when I go long distance I get an additional two days vacation because I don't waste time being jet-lagged. It's good value for me.

I think that seats on short-haul do not need to recline, a policy adopted by easyJet and Ryanair with which I am pleased. However, I think on a long-haul most people want to recline, I certainly do.

I don't tend to find, even though I am quite tall, that that makes all that much difference to my comfort so long as I can recline as well. However, what I would ask is that anyone in front of me who does wish to recline does so slowly or says they are about to do so first, as that allows me to change my position to allow it. Otherwise, it can be rather painful. The same applies to raising the stupidly-designed armrests on 737s that cut into knee-room.

I was on a National Express coach (bus) last weekend, and I noted that the automated welcome announcement included a request to passengers that they should be considerate when reclining their seats to avoid causing injury or damaged items on tray tables. I thought that was a good idea. Everyone has the right to recline, but also the responsibility to check that they don't hit anything, and if necessary request politely[1] the person behind to move the item/themselves a bit to accommodate it before doing so.

[1] Though there are almost no reasons in this case for such a request to be reasonably denied, there is no harm in being polite.

Neil

Agree, other than reviewing paperwork - there isn't enough space in an economy seat to use a laptop "properly". But personally, I would prefer to fly the day before and have a night's proper sleep in a hotel than fly business, if there's a choice between the two. But that's mainly because I can't sleep on planes well at all, whatever class I'm in.

Neil

The arrogance of some people that cannot stand the person in front of them reclining.

I have a plan. Pay for the seat in front of you too.

IMO, this is a regional issue. The rest of the world has no problem with reclining. It makes me laugh to no end.

What an odd post. My clients are paying me by the hour when I'm on a flight and expect me to use that time efficiently. If you don't like that I have to work, take it up with them.

I could not agree more. Even if I am not on the clock, I use my time in the air to get some work done. If I can get my work done when I am on the road, it allows me to spend more quality time with my family when I do get home.

Moderator note
 

As many of you regular TravelBuzz forum readers know, seat reclining is one of our most controversial topics because of the passion some members bring to it.

To keep the thread open, let's avoid personalized comments toward other members. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, co-moderator.

My clients pay me half rate for travel time. To me, that is an acknowledgement that my time is being used but that it is not being directly used on the project/contract. If they expected me to work on a flight then I would expect them to pay for a business class seat to facilitate that, as I cannot guarantee that I can work on my laptop if the person in front of me reclines their seat.

So, in context of the thread, what class do you fly and if you are in Y then how does reclining the seat affect you getting work done? What do you think about preventing the seat from reclining?

The reclining issue is really a big deal in terms of getting work done, and I agree that in a standard coach seat, if the person in front of me reclines it is not possible to use most laptops. I generally choose to take connections over direct flights if it means that I will likely be upgraded, or can get an exit row or adequate E+ seat (i.e. not P.S. to JFK). I actually get work done on the flight, so it ends up being a net gain for the client.

That said, I think it's my responsibility to make sure I get a seat where reclining will not prevent me from working. If I choose a standard economy seat, I have no right to prevent the person in front of me from reclining.

OMG can we NOT have yet another one of these threads?!

Y vs J isn't a simple cash analysis
 

It's impossible to comment directly on your analysis without many more metrics. But, suffice it to say that it all depends on the value of an employee (and I do not mean personal esteem, but the value of their time) and the productivity you expect on arrival. If an employee works all day, flies TATL to Europe, landing in the local AM and you expect them to accomplish sophistcated work, the value of F/J is self-apparent. On the other hand, if you send them a day early or at least on a daytime flight, you lose productivity, but they are rested (although you've paid to keep them on the road).

To me, time is money. Some of those on this thread apparently have jobs where there is a point where they get their work done and that's it. Many always have more work they could do and generate revenue. Recline or not, it's hard to accomplish too much in Y and more than possible in F/J (somewhat overbroad depending on exact configurations).

One also has to look at cash outlay. Clearly J costs a lot more than Y and it has to be paid for in cash upfront. While it may be revenue-enhancing in the long-term, that doesn't help this instant's operating budget. Thus, the soundness of the company and ability to make investments such as J matter a great deal.

Finally, it's not a good analysis to say that the money used for J could be used to pay an employee a bonus. That is true and there are many employees who are strapped and might jump at that. But, from the business perspective, it may not be a good deal. Sort of like offering someone the value of a laptop if they are willing to go without. There's some who would be happy to give up the laptop. But, it's not likely in the business' best interest.

Surely most majors have looked into offering standard seats that don't recline and premium priced seats that recline. They haven't missed many opportunities for extra revenue.

I disagree with it - I am in pain when I sit in the position of a standard economy seat, and as soon as it is permitted, I recline the seat to take pressure off my back (slowly). I wouldn't fly with an airline that had no recline, regardless of flight duration.

I've got an idea, lets start one about planes being delayed to fix a problem with a seat or lav in Steerage Class and how totally wrong and disgusting it is that airlines would even consider the comfort/safety of those sitting in back when they have full fare paying customers up front. :cool:

I would love to hear the conversation when an FA puts someone in that seat in front of you that you paid for...

"Excuse me. That's my seat. I paid for it."

"Then why aren't you sitting in it?"

And on and on and on...:D

Perhaps you should take a portion of the money you are being paid and offer to pay the person in front of you not to recline. Or have your clients pay directly.

You could carry a spare W-9 with you just in case.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf

There are already rows without reclining seats in them. They're called the exit row and the bulkhead. If you can't get into these then you're not flying enough for people reclining to actually affect you.

If I have to give up something (including reclining) particularly to improve the gains or profits of someone else then I should get paid for it. If this is to improve your company's profits then there is no reason why your company can't pay for it. In some cases this might be accomplished indirectly by hiding it among other items in an expense report.

Ouch!
 

Sorry for starting on such a sore topic. I think I can consider myself totally overruled now!

a. I have long legs, please don't speak for me. If the person in front of me wants to recline, I honestly don't care.

b. Perhaps it should be in the next Passenger rights bill that we have the right to recline. :rolleyes:

Oh, and welcome to FT.

I am self employed and as such am on billable time when working on an airplane. The time I spend working on the plane is time I do not spend working at home. I can play golf, take my wife out, talk with the kids. If I waited until I was at home I would miss out on those pleasures.

I do not complain about recliners. I just bought a computer with a smaller screen that does not get pinched. I get to work, they get to rest. It is a symbiotic relationship. I even try to not type too hard.

I slept at the hotel.

And to those around me, if they think I am a fool for working, then they are allowed their thoughts.

And BTW I am a POS, and I buy two seats. I even use both tray tables, one for my mouse pad and mouse. I will share it with you if you ask. Nicely.

You charge for your time on the plane? Perhaps a review of charging policy is in order..

If you don't want the person in front of you to recline, fly Ryanair.

I don't know any high-end professional who doesn't charge for their travel time unless they have some special discount arrangement with a particular client. Time is time. If someone pays me to write a sophisticated document or to mow their lawn, I am expending the same time and the fee is the same. That's why people don't pay me to mow their lawns. It's also why many now use video links and the like because clients are much happier with that than paying for 16 hours for a 1-hour meeting.