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-   -   "No computers in standby mode" (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1160720-no-computers-standby-mode.html)

Jenbel Dec 17, 2010 7:29 am


Originally Posted by chipster (Post 15466706)
And another thing...in UK on BA we are never told we have to turn everything OFF, just that if the device has a flight safe mode, it should be enabled prior to departure, and any device that sends or receives calls or data (such as bluetooth, texts, wifi etc) should be switched off unless it is in flight-safe mode. It is irritating when some jokers like to leave their blackberries on silent. One day I will say something!


Originally Posted by CheetahSA
On BA no headphones during take-off & landing but phones in flight-safe mode is fine.

That's not the case, although certain people chose to interpret it that way. The BA wording is pretty clear that all electronic devices should be turned off for take off and landing. That's unambiguous. It then goes onto say something like devices with a flight safe mode can be used during the flight, but flight safe must be enabled before departure. And somehow that translates in people's heads into an ok to leave things on, so long as flight safe is enabled because it's more convenient to them.

(when discussed on a previous thread in the BA forum, the exact wording from the video was produced which showed that those who said it didn't say to turn things off were wrong and were hearing selectively what they wanted to hear - apparently not the statement that 'all electronice devices should be turned off for take-off and landing').

chipster Dec 17, 2010 10:01 am

The BA announcement on switching off needs to be revised then, as it is ambiguous and those of us who have heard it many times still may be interpreting it wrongly. Occasional flyers will have no chance then. It should say that you should switch to flight safe AND THEN switch off completely, if that's what is intended. Still, no headphones allowed, and I always switch my laptop wifi and bluetooth off prior to departure but I always then just put it into hibernate.

tfvaida Dec 19, 2010 2:59 pm


Originally Posted by Cheetah_SA (Post 15467032)
I have a problem with that type of thinking and believe it achieves the opposite effect to what is intended. By trying to achieve a (desirable)secondary result from a questionable instruction you just end up with a lot of people who think "that doesn't make sense - I'll ignore it as far as I can get away with it".

I wasn't saying that statutorily they were trying to achieve two aims at once, just that there is a good reason for complying with the "completely stowed" instruction. The secondary effect is actually just a mental burp on the part of the airlines and the FAs, several actual rules are somehow getting combined into a jumble that's opaque to you, but still can be traced to actual FAA rules.

The underlying FAA regulation for the US is part of 14 CFR Part 91. In that maze of rules is section 21(a) which says:


Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
and then down in (b)5 it says

Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
finally section (c) covers the airlines:

In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
Nowhere does it say "completely off", nor does the FAA actually take any responsibility for deciding this list of "Approved Electronic Devices". Instead the airlines collectively use the RTCA to do testing on equipment and report findings. Things tested by the RTCA become the list of approved devices. The whole song and dance is better detailed in an advisory circular from the FAA detailing the history since 1961 of Portable Electronic Devices (PEDs): link.

Farther down in the FARs you'll find 91.523 which talks about carry-on items, but does not specify when these items need to be stowed, only that they be stowed in a way that prevents them from moving forward in the event of a crash or crash-like sudden stop. The airlines are likely mentally combining this rule with 91.535 which is quite specific that the aircraft cannot be taxied, take-off or land with food items at the passenger's seats, with service carts not stowed, with tray tables or seat-backs in the "wrong" position, and movie screens in the aisle-way.

But underlying all of this is that the airlines and the pilots fall under the 11'th Commandment - "thou shalt not f*ck up". Anything which might get the airline in hot water will be viewed by the airline lawyers as a no-no, and the fact that prohibitions on items might be non-sensical, or that things are not consistently applied on every flight, is a dont-care so long as liability is somewhat constrained. Airlines have cart-blanche to tell you what to do with your laptop, headphones, and kindle, because if something does happen, there's a trigger happy trial lawyer somewhere ready to sue because your laptop was on.

My advice, consider your friendly (or not so friendly) FA to be the equivalent of a municipal motor cop, if you are in his/her sights, all the kvetching in the world about laws and constitutionality wont keep you off the hood of the car face-down in hand-cuffs. Be polite, follow the instructions, and if you really feel your civil rights have been trampled, file a complaint. It seems like at least on UA (for now) you'll get an eCert for your inconvenience. Even better, do a little prep in advance and be prepared for arbitrary instructions like forcing you to pull the battery to prove your device is 'off'. Thats the way it is, just like your parents used to tell you, "because and I said so" (and the US Government made it that way).

QueenOfCoach Dec 19, 2010 3:22 pm


My advice, consider your friendly (or not so friendly) FA to be the equivalent of a municipal motor cop, if you are in his/her sights, all the kvetching in the world about laws and constitutionality wont keep you off the hood of the car face-down in hand-cuffs.
Conversely, if you are polite and compliant, you will have a more pleasant flight. FAs have ways to make things easier for passengers they like.

I always try to be the easiest passenger on the airplane, and as a result, I get excellent friendly service.


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