I like the new SeatGuru overlays as well, but I agree with this sentiment. Before it was very very easy to scan an entire plane's seatmap and instantly see the empty seats. When looking at the new maps, I'm not sure there is a lot of value in detailing a miniature person complete with head, arms, hands, legs, and feet. It tends to make the map very busy and more difficult to parse mentally. I would suggest that this semi-detailed icon could just show an opaque shape, perhaps a solid color, with just a round head.

I think the goal of the seatmaps should really be first and foremost to make it blisteringly easy to quickly identify where the open seats are. This means making the representations for the empty/occupied seats as opposite as possible. A secondary goal is to provide extra information about special seats. This means smaller, subtler clues about which seats have extra legroom, power, etc. Under no circumstances should the second goal disrupt the primary goal.

Overall, I'm glad the functionality has been added. Hopefully with some tweaks it could be even better.

I fully prefer the new seat map version. It's relatively easy to see and matches the style a lot of airlines use on their own res. systems.

One bug, which is probably not really a bug hence just being posted here, is that on a TG 744 where equipment is specified as 747 All Equipment, the upper deck does not have any popups. Lower deck is OK with seatguru popups though. I think this has to do with TG not specifying equipment code 744.

EDIT: I just tested it with another TG flight with 744 specified and still no popups. So will be reporting this in.

Glad to see it's helping already. ^

Agree with the above.

I despise the new seatmaps.

I don't need trip advisor to tell me which seats are good or bad for most of my flights. If I do need further information I can look it up on seatguru or seatexpert.

In the case of the first seat map I saw with this new layout the recommendations were even completely incorrect. [NZ726 Dec 3, 2010 (A320)]

What was a simple, easy to read interface is now cluttered with unnecessary busy graphic.

Bring back the blue boxes!!!

If not, at the very least make seat guru images/data optional (like like the pop-ups can be turned off) ... and make this a profile option as well.

It quite hard when http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...tguru-good.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...tguru-poor.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...guru-mixed.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...available3.png. i.e. "All are available"

SeatGuru is TripAdvisor.

It's the exact same data as is on SG's website for the NZ A320: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...irbus_A320.php If some of the review data is wrong, then you should submit a comment to them using the form on that page.

If you don't want to see the pop-ups when you hover over a seat, click the "Turn Off Pop-ups" check box.

As for the new icons, they are here to stay. We actually kept the color scheme the same as icons representing seats that are in some way available have a white background, whereas seats that are in some way not available have a dark fill or background, just like before. At first, I had the same reaction but after using them for several weeks internally we don't notice a difference and like them better, give it a chance.

I saw that; It would be better to have a profile option as well to make this information available or not without having to check it every time; more than that, if turned off, simply have the http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...available3.png to show an available seat in all cases.
Seatexpert is wrong as well. NZ are changing their configuration. In reality I stopped using those while expecting them to be correct some years ago.

Please, hire a good designer to make these decisions for you. Not a "web designer" or a "web developer" or a middle manager who knows what he likes when he sees it. Someone professional who understands how things like color palettes and character kerning work and influence the user experience.

Rather than encouraging users to just "get used to it, we did," find someone who can look at two design alternatives and TELL you which one is better. And back up his statements with research and studies and experience.

At least 3 users have already tried out the new version, expressed their dislike of a specific facet, and offered reasonable explanations for their views. If you want feedback, we would love to give it to you. But to then turn right around and wave off any negative points expressed with a dismissive "they are here to stay" is rather offputting.

As always, feedback is welcome and encouraged. As noted earlier, please send it to [email protected] so it can be seen by the appropriate people, thanks.

I like the new version better than the old. Some airline maps show a dark indicator as available, some show it as vacant. When looking at the previous EF maps I sometimes got confused between available or vacant. Now it is more obvious - to me. I'm wondering how many comments they received about the old maps that prompted the change? I'm sure they receive comments and suggestions apart from those posted on FT. Having said that, I know that many suggestions received by them here on EF have resulted in changes. I guess there is a balance between what all the subscriber comments are, what is possible, etc.

3 - 2 (payam81 and me) = 1. YMMV, as always.

I too like the new layout ... does that make it

3 - 3 = 0?

I really like the new information. I find it easy to use and valuable. I just checked my next two trips and found I'd selected well. Normally my selections have been seatguru favorites, but not always.

Thanks for doing this.

different results for different queries?
 

OK....this seems strange to me. I am running an "Awards & Upgrades" query for LAX - LHR for Z, A, U & C & I get "Z0 A2 U0 C0" for flight AA136.

If I run the same query, but this time set for LAX - MXP via LHR, I get "Z7 U7 C7" for the same flight AA136! :eek:

Is this a bug or a feature? Shouldn't the results come out the same? :confused:

This is called Married Segment Logic (or Journey Control) and it allows the airlines to show different availability for a flight based on what other flights it may be paired with on an itinerary. Basically, it's the revenue management department at work.

Done! :)

Here's a good example of what sort of seatmap I would expect from a modern, for-pay service.

Key points:
1) Modern images make it clear this wasn't thrown together with some simple HTML coding in 10 minutes
2) Simple, muted color scheme makes it pleasing to the eye
3) Simple images keep the overall map de-cluttered and easy to process
4) Blazingly fast to identify occupied/empty seats
5) Clear indication of both exit rows and wing location
6) Clear distinction between seats that are taken (X) and seats that are available (color icon of empty seat)
7) More seat information is available in the sidebar by hovering over the desired seat (8C shown in this example)

http://imgur.com/wXdpz.png

Well, this is interesting. I just called about this to see if I could make a reservation for the MilesAAver award in U for flight A136 on 10/8/11 (even without the ability to book U for LHR - MXP) and I was told that there was no award availability at all for that flight as it had not yet been loaded into the system. In fact the first "sighting" of award availability on that route was on 9/27/11.

Availability is loaded 331 days in advance, so the agent is incorrect. AA 136 by itself shows no award availability, so that is correct. We'll follow up to your email to discuss it further, thanks.

^^ Two thumbs up to baliktad's proposal. :)

A good professional graphic designer is ALWAYS worth his/her weight in gold. I say this as someone with NO graphic design talents whatsoever, so there is no conflict of interest here. ;)

I'd like to echo this sentiment. I saw the seat maps for the first time today, and I find them quite busy. I hope that EF takes the feedback here and considers it collectively rather than saying "just get used to it." My EF subscription is up for renewal in a few days, and although I plan to renew, EF does have some competition in this space for my future dollars.

^ I'm liking baliktad's example.

I'm not sure what baliktad is trying to accomplish, but outright insulting and talking down to the EF team probably isn't going to get a response. I would ignore you too. :rolleyes:

Instead of wasting time complaining here, why don't you just send them an email and offer to help design alternative icons? Since you apparently know everything there is to know about that, it should be easy for you.

Given subscribers were asked their opinions should we only post positive ones???:confused::confused:
I will also send off an e-mail; but it's basically repeating the suggestions I have already made here in thread.

Way out of line. :td:

baliktad respectfully offered constructive, detailed feedback that any customer-focused company would be happy to have. I hope EF values that and graciously accepts the feedback in the spirit of which it is intended.

Read what he wrote again:
"Please, hire a good designer to make these decisions for you. Not a "web designer" or a "web developer" or a middle manager who knows what he likes when he sees it. "

That's not constructive. Constructive is "I don't like the new icons, here are some suggestions on how they can be improved, let me know if you would like to discuss further."

Frankly I find this version quite annoying. Grey, Blue, then Grey with *, Blue with *, More Grey, Orange, Greyed out Grey. Thanks but no thanks.

Maybe I'm just a simpleton, but I like EFs new, allegedly, non-professional, 10 minutes put together seat map better which is BTW, incidentally the same seat map system used by TG, SQ and a bunch of other *A airlines (and possibly more that I don't know of).

That is not true.

Those airline seat maps basically use the one icon to indicate availability.

E/F now has at least 6 all indicating the same = free.

It needs extra effort when http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...tguru-good.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...tguru-poor.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...guru-mixed.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...p/premium3.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...ndicapped3.png = http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...available3.png. i.e. All indicate available.

[edit]
It seems simple there, but imagine a web page with 200 or more of these icons ...
[/edit]

Well, the previous EF seat map version had 4 versions of vacant, IIRC: Clear white, blue with a P for premium, blue with a wheelchair for handicap and blue with an X for blocked. Four of your examples are the same functions but now that SG ratings are available, the colored tags are added consistent with the SG rating system. In one look, you see the nature of the vacancy and the first order SG rating.

Too much information in one icon? Maybe, maybe not. I find the efficiency a good thing but YMMV.

I don't mind all that information in a single icon, and I like the concept behind the implementation, but the map is hard on the eyes right now. Those big icons of blue seats indicating occupied seats distract the focus from the white unoccupied seats on the white background. I get that the occupied seat icon is supposed to be a top view of a person sitting in the seat, but it's too big and too bold. With the open seats being white-on-white, the contrast is poor and makes it hard to see.

The occupied seats should be faded so that the unoccupied seats stand out.

Just in case anyone hasn't bothered to go check it out, here's a snapshot of what we're talking about:

http://gallery.flyertalk.com/gallery...es/SeatMap.jpg

Also, IMHO, the SeatGuru rating should show on the occupied seats, too, since one of the main purposes of going to the seat map is to set an alert for a seat to open. Knowing which of the currently-occupied seats is highly rated makes it easier to set seat alerts for specific seats to open up.

Hmmm, OK i understand the fading of the occupied seats for a less stark contrast, but putting the SG rating on all seats, wouldn't that just add to the "clutter"? Not saying that is a good or a bad thing, just wondering if the visual impact, which seems to be a point of concern in this discussion, would be adversely effected.

I don't necessarily agree with SG ratings; I have made advice from my perspective in the past and it has been ignored for whatever reason. I have given up.

So I would like the inclusion of TA data that optional, so I don't have to ignore it. Have the ability to stop themouse over info it fine, but I would prefer nothing remind me of SG/TA.

I am paying 100 bucks a year or so for the privilege to employ expertflyer. I have been a great supporter ot Expert Flyer since its inception, but I feel they have this one wrong.

My current subscription is active for a few months, but KVS is becoming more interesting.

Now back to the icons, The X blocked still exist and are obvious: http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...ap/blocked.png (Little different from before)

The "allocated" images are a joke in themselves, looking not much more than rows of small Lego blocks in a crowded seatmap. (see jackal's post)

No my real issue is with the inclusion of Tripadvisor (Seat Guru) based cluttering images - I have already ad-blocked out the ad's in the expertflyer banner - I wonder how much TA/SG are being remunerated for clicks from the seat maps ... I will probably set up at grease-monkey script to substitute the images I don't wish to see with the basic seat map.

i.e. The images http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...tguru-good.png, http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...tguru-poor.png, http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...guru-mixed.png will be substituted with http://www.expertflyer.com/include/i...available3.png.

I think you could get that information in there in an intelligible way. The little colored dots may not be the best way, but it would work--as long as you could clearly differentiate between the occupied and unoccupied seats. I'm thinking fade out the occupied seats to maybe 25% of their current brightness (and get rid of the little person in them--until I blew the image up, I just thought the seat had bumps on it or was, as serfty said, a bunch of lego blocks) and then add the little dots (also faded out)

Really, it gets back to the core: when doing web design, you need to hire a good graphic designer to make everything work together.

Just because airlines use a certain seatmap format does not mean it's the best one. @:-)

Thanks for the light bulb, but I think you missed the point, which was consistency not how good/bad certain airline seat maps are.

I just saw the new seat map format today and I like it. Saves me from clicking over to Seat Guru.

What we're discussing/debating is whether the new format is better or worse. Many here, including myself, think that, while the added functionality is useful, the new visual format is worse than the original. Whether or not that new format is consistent with what others are doing is irrelevant - just because other sites are doing something consistently that looks bad does not mean that ExpertFlyer should follow along.

I don't think consistency or uniformity are irrelevant but that's my opinion. Nays and Yays on this matter in our small non-scientific sample seem to be equally divided so I don't think I'm the only one holding that belief.

So I guess we can agree to disagree.

Agreed. :)

Strange availability bug
 

Details are: availability request for DXB-MOW on 30-NOV (and some other dates).

EF returns an error if I specify SU as a preferred carrier (no flights at all), however, it returns several SU flights (and many others) if a carrier is not specified.

What could be the reason for that?

I often have multiple search results open in different tabs, so it would be terrific if I could refine a query from any of them and it would work (which the stateless suggestion above would do).

Pre-filling a name in the "save query" box would be annoying, as you suggest. But automatically saving the last n queries would be a better alternative, I think. It makes it very handy for people who use it, and it doesn't get in the way of those who don't. Perhaps a new drop-down entry under "Saved Queries" for the last n queries would be a nice way to access these.

Having the information immediately viewable is convenient, but personally I'd have ranked other features far higher. I say this because EF is, I think, targeted at frequent flyers who tend to already have personal seat favorites for various equipment, and even if not, it's quite easy to have SeatGuru open in one tab and an EF seatmap in another. By contrast, a feature offering stateless EF queries, or a recently-used set of queries, would provide functionality that is missing now.

There is a bug on our side. We're getting back an error and flight data from the GDS and it's causing the error you're seeing (which is different from the regular "No Availability" message). We'll post the fix in the next day or two.

In the future, please email us directly ([email protected]) with any bug reports so we can make sure they are expedited. Thanks!

Is there any MPM options on EF?