ExpertFlyer vs KVS Availability Tools
 

I had asked the administrator of the expert flyer tool to compare his tool with that of the KVS tool. He sent me a private message with his responses, and gave me permission to post his response on FT. I will therefore quote his response.

Here is his response:

KVS and ExpertFlyer show different information because we get it from different sourcess. We buy it from the same airline reservation systems that travel agents use, KVS screen scrapes it from public websites. As such, we have access to information like enhanced Fare Rules and Routing Rules and upgrade and award information for certain airlines that KVS doesn't.

As far as features that EF has that KVS doesn't:
- Flight Alerts (the ability to be emailed when inventory on a flight opens up, either award, upgrade, or normal fare inventory).
- The ability to save searches so you don't have to type them again later.
- All our information is available on our mobile version at mobile.expertflyer.com
- Graphical seat maps for over 100 airlines (list of airlines here: http://www.expertflyer.com/sessionlessSeatMapList.do)
- Ability to see exactly how many award/upgrade seats are available for the airlines we support, not just a Yes/No answer

Also, all the information on your subscription and free trial is easily viewable on the Subscription tab on the My Account page, which is linked to from the top of the left side menu after you login.

Also you can find full documentation of all of our functions here: http://www.expertflyer.com/support.jsp

-EFV

Good info - thanks for posting.

Thanks, OP.

I'm hoping to start cashing in miles next year and I had been trying to decide between EF and KVS. I'm sure both have their strengths, it just helps me decide which tool is best for my particular needs in coming year.

When you want to compare them, in the other thread (http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthrea...319244&page=52) there is also useful info, like this:

So not only the way it works differs, the info differs too, and -depending on the airline you want to travel with awards (in this example) can even rule either one out.

KVS- please compare features of your tool to EF tool - respond to EF administrator!
 

I believe for basic (Platinum level) functions, that the KVS tool is superior to the EF tool (even though I agree with the EF administrator in terms of the advantages of his tool over KVS that he has listed). I would hope that the KVS tool adminstrator directly responses to the EF administrator's statements by stating the the advantages of his tool, comparred to the EF tool.

Some of the advantages of the KVS Tool include:

• Incomparably wider Award Availability coverage in all 3 global alliances (see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Classes):
  
  
  • Available exclusively via KVS Tool (Awards):
    *A: LH/SQ/CO/US/NH/OZ/TG/OS/SK/TP/JK/SA/MS/JP/OU/KF
    *O: BA/CX/JL/IB/LA/RJ/MA/S7/MX/4M/KA
    *S: DL/KL/AM/KQ/VN
    **: DE/FJ/TL/FQ/OT
    
    
  • Available exclusively via KVS Tool (Upgrades):
    *A: LH/SQ/CO/US/NH/OZ/TG/OS/SK/TP/JK/SA/MS/JP/OU/KF
    *O: BA
    
    
  • Also available via KVS Tool (Awards):
    *A: AC/UA/LX/NZ/TK/BD/LO/SN/A3/JJ/CA
    *O: QF/AA/AY
    *S: AF/SU/AZ/OK/RO/CZ/UX
    **: AS/MH/UN/FM/LY/EI/AR/G3/EK/IT/TN/HA/F9/MP/VG/EC
    
    
  • Also available via KVS Tool (Upgrades):
    *A: AC/UA/LX/NZ/CA/BD/SN/A3
    **: FM/LY
    
    
  
  
• Multiple user-selectable GDS & Point-of-Sale (POS) options for more relevant/accurate Availability and Fare data.
  
  
• 'Always-on' approach: No need to log-in (except for once every 6/12 months when renewing membership); users are never 'logged-out'.
  
  
• Keyboard shortcuts, which enable mouse-free interaction and can really speed things up.
  
  
• PNR Manager
  
  
• Reference Information Lookup:
  • Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]
  • Minimum Connection Time [MCT]
  
  
• Flight Operational Info (With Airline Comments)
  
  
• Visa/Immigration/Customs Information (TIMATIC)

KVS:

Thanks, for the information. Can I ask you whether you agree with the EF tool administrator's comments in his first paragraph, in terms of your tool vs his tool?

I believe that everyone has a right to make comments, but commenting on them is not always necessary ;)

One thing I realized by using the KVS tool, and for 5 days previewing the EF tool:

1) KVS allows you to find award availbility by global alliance; EF does not have that function

2) EF does allow you to find a revenue ticket by global alliance; although KVS tool can find revenue tickets by single or multiple airlines; I am not aware that you can find a ticket from A to B (with stops in between) through a global alliance, using the KVS tool.

You can't currently request regular availability or fares by alliance in KVS Tool, but you can instantly filter any results displayed by going to the [Filter] tab, and clicking the [*A]/[*O]/[*S] buttons.

As someone who has used both tools, I'd throw out the following:

Both tools have their strengths and weaknesses, and which one you use really depends on your current needs. I would not be surprised to learn that many people have subscriptions to both tools.


Likes with EF:

• Award availability for CA/FM/LX and more detailed availability on UA. When I was booking award tickets to China for the Olympics this summer, this was a huge help and timesaver.
• Saved flight alerts/email alerts.
• Fares and Routing Rules.
• Graphical seatmaps.

Dislikes with EF:

• I think it's kind of expensive for what you get.
• It's not as fast for me as KVS (possibly a browser/javascript issue).
• I think the banner ads are tacky and inappropriate considering I'm paying a monthly fee for this service, not to mention they really impact browsing from a mobile phone.

I haven't used KVS for over a year now, but at one time I had it installed at work and on my laptop and made frequent use of it (when I was using it there was no *A award availability checking).

Likes with KVS:

• Fast, easy to use with keyboard.
• Convenient award availability checking (this is assumed as I didn't get to experience it).
• Better overall value.

Dislikes with KVS:

• No configurable email alerts.
• No award inventory for CA/FM/LX.
• Sometimes seemed a little "clunky".

I honestly don't recall any details on printing from KVS - from EF, it's easy to do. EF can also search availability across a total of 7 days - this is very handy when planning award or MR travel - not sure how KVS compares. Finally, I'm not sure how the two compare for mobile usage - EF advertises a mobile homepage but I always forget the address when I'm traveling (dumb I know), and it's been too long for me to recall whether KVS had a WindowsCE version or not.

Frankly, the other thing that really helps a lot no matter which tool you use is a good understanding of how airfares/rules/routings work - with that knowledge, one or both of these tools, and extensive use of the ITASoftware website (free), you can really do amazing things when it comes to maximizing value on revenue or award travel.

Guess it's time to try KVS out again - would like to see how it compares to the ANA tool for award checking. :)

Except that KVS doesn't have upgrade inventory for many of those airlines, EF does. AA, NW, and DL are prime examples and especially important since neither AA.com nor Delta.com has upgrade searching on their own websites.

The full list of airlines we have award or upgrade data for is here: http://www.expertflyer.com/sessionlessClassList.do

To summarize, for awards: EI, AC, CA, AF, NZ, TN, AS, AA, BD, OK, LY, EK, AY, F9, MX, NW, QF, LX, UA

Upgrades: AC, NZ, TN, AS, AA, DL, LY, EK, NW, LX, UA

So if that list is what you fly, you're welcome to try out our 5 day trial, if not, send us an email with the airline you wish to see and we'll put you on the notification list.

With ExpertFlyer, we have access to many different GDS as well, but we don't require our users to know about them or figure out which one to choose for every situation. We do it automatically on a per airline, per query type basis.

vysean: Please use our Mobile Edition of EF when using your mobile device at mobile.expertflyer.com. No ads or graphics, and all the functionality of the full site.

-EFV

Is that right? I'd always understood that EF uses an American POS, which means that the fare availability differs for those of us who need to buy the tickets outside of the US. For instance, EF will show I class availability on BA (say) which is only available from the US. European customers do not have access to this class but there is no way to tell without separately pricing up on ba.com

EF does use a US POS, however a POS is not specific to a GDS. A GDS can have any POS depending on where the travel agent who signs up with them is physically located. In our case, all our GDS connections have a US POS. The value to us is that different GDSs have access to different airline information as one may have acess to an airlines seat maps or fares (like in the case of WN) and other may not. Being a US company, when we sign up with the GDSs we are only allowed to have a US POS, there are regulations preventing us from having a POS in a country we don't have a business presence in.

With KVS, the different websites the tool pulls data from happen to be from around the world. As such in that context a different GDS also means a different POS, it's just how it worked out.

Expertflyer banner ads
 

I have subscribed to expertflyer from the beginning and though I only use it a few times a year for some reason I never noticed the banner ads - for a subscription service having ads is really tacky - but what is more frustrating is that they are very distracting - searching for reward space over Xmas and there's some stupid flashing banner ad at the top of the page - it is enough for me to cancel with them (e.g. I've already removed my credit card number) I guess their business must be really doing well or perhaps it isn't - either way they've just lost a long time customer.

Expert Flyer banner ads
 

Not wanting to leave well enough alone - there is this from their FAQ page

Is there any advertising, pop-ups or banner ads on ExpertFlyer.com?

-None. ExpertFlyer.com is a subscription-based service supported solely by our subscribers.

http://www.expertflyer.com/page.jsp?page=faq.html

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...r.com/page.jsp

Nice....

I use both KVS and ExpertFlyer. I like them both but for different reasons.

On advantage to EF is that it's web-based so I can access it more or less anywhere. KVS needs to be installed and it requires a rather specific unlock code. So if my machine crashes or if I upgrade to newer machine, I need to email KVS and get a new code. I find this cumbersome, but KVS is really good at getting back in a timely manner and is quite accommodating of requests. KVS is also a Windows-only app so I need to fire up Parallels on my Mac first before I can use it. This is not a big deal, but it is an extra step.

Having said all that, I like some of the features of KVS and tend to use it as my primary tool.

There is no FAQ item that references advertising in either of the links referenced.

It's been there for about 6 months. We thought long and hard about putting ads on ExpertFlyer before we did so as we wanted to make sure we could show un-obtrusive, relevant ads to our subscribers. The reasons we decided to implement them are as follows:

- They take up no more additional space on the display then before, there are no ads in the content sections, only in unused space (like the clouds up top).
- There are many other websites that show ads to paying customers. WSJ.com is an example.
- We are trying to offset our increasing costs without raising subscription rates.
- We have continued to bring new features to ExperFlyer for 4 years without increasing our subscription rates once.

We approve and control all ads individually, we filter out the annoying ones and only show ones that we think would be relevant to our subscribers, if we missed one, then just email us which ad it is and we'll promptly have it removed.

As always, please send any questions or comments to [email protected]

Regards,
EFV

Clarification on ExpertFlyer advertising
 

http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=U...icp=1&.intl=us

The above link (yahoo cache of expert fllyer) was accessed December 20, 2008 (note: a cache is not static, however screenshots of the above may also exist) Also www.archive.org contains a robust history of many websites unless their owners have requested blockage which is not the case with the site in question.

The text of the above yahoo cache includes the following:

Latest News

October 10, 2008
ExpertFlyer announces the addition of El Al (LY) Award and Upgrade availability.

Frequently Asked Questions
General
__________________________________
Why are there links on your site to other travel related sites like SeatGuru? Are you affiliated with them?

We have no business ownership or personal affiliation with any of these sites. We provide the links on ExpertFlyer.com, which appear as a new window or tab, as a courtesy to our subscribers to help them with their travel planning.

_____________________________________
Is there any advertising, pop-ups or banner ads on ExpertFlyer.com?

None. ExpertFlyer.com is a subscription-based service supported solely by our subscribers.

____________________________________
Is there a Mobile version of Expertflyer.com?

Yes there is, and it can be accessed via a number of different addresses:
http://www.expertflyer.com/mobile
http://mobile.expertflyer.com
http://expertflyer.mobi
The same search tools that are available on the regular version of ExpertFlyer are available on the Mobile Edition. If you have any issues or questions about using it, please make sure to let us know via the Contact Us link on the bottom of every ExpertFlyer Mobile page.

etc.

Oh I do like a nice partisan scrap... err, spirited debate. ;)

But seriously, I am just grateful that we have 2 such resources to choose from, based on totally different business models and thus competing on value add rather than just on price. Let's not forget that these are revolutionary businesses in the history of travel planning. They represent the crest of that incredible wave that is putting the decision making power into the hands of the traveller rather than the supplier or the intermediary.

Long live EF and KVS! ^

This may be a very radical idea - why not the 2 competitors combine the 2 travel tools - is the idea of KVS and EF merging all that radical compared to some of the airline mergers - such as Delta and Northwest; America West and US Air; AA and TWA etc? A single tool with the advantages of both, but without the disadvantages of either tool, would be a very strong customer based tool - and much more efficient that subscribing to both of them (I am talking about time and effort efficiency; I am not talking about cost savings).

The two tools are completely different, one provides GDS access and the other provides an interface to pull data off otherwise-available sources. They will not be combined. If you like the different features in each, consider buying each....

Great discussion. I am sorry I missed it when it first started. I never could figure out what KVS was for, so I learned something today.

Did i miss something? on EF i seem to not see upgrade tool available for united & Continental. Did they lose those carrier's info?

It's a huge deal for me. The only way I'll run Windows on any of my Macs is with internet access disabled.

They DID lose UA, that much I do know. :(

(Oh, and it's apparently UA's fault. :td: )

For those of you that are bothered by the ads on EF (and not only), and are using Firefox - the ....... Plus addon is a priceless tool. It blocks most of the adds on all the websites.

I also have to agree with others that for a service costing 9.99$/mo. having ads invade your search is not a very nice business practice.

To Mr KVS,

Please please add LX to the list of airlines to work on*A awards.

As a european based guy, IMHO Swiss is THE most important after LH.

Please get it to work.

If you would have a blackberry App for kvs, it would be wonderfull.

LX award/upgrade availability is coming soon, which will further increase KVS Tool Star Alliance award coverage from 96% (24/25) to 100% (25/25)!

Mobile device access is also coming next year -- please stay tuned for further details!

Too many options "that are come coming soon", take way too long...

Cathay results are not accurate. checking the HKG-AMS, its often not available on kvs, but is available via Advantage.

Indeed, there has been a bit of a delay due to the recent major changes on the SkyTeam/DL and UA fronts, which required significant development resources...

Rest assured, LX awards are still very high on the priority list.

That would be very strange -- did you actually complete a booking via AADV or did the agent just thought that there was availability?

If it is former and happens again, then please report the flight details via the Contact Form at www.KVSTool.com right away...

yes, I booked the ticket.

i looked at the kvs site for first time. seems complicated but if i figured out Ef i guess i can figure this one out. but looks like its tricky if i use a mac. which program should i download and can i get the program for free? thanks much.

Which method were you using to pull CX availability?

It wouldn't surprise me if Awards/Oneworld showed the flight unavailable when in fact it was... Were you using Awards/CX? And searching only for CX segments rather than origin/destination involving another carrier in addition to CX?

Unless you are willing to run a windows VM on your Mac the KVS option is a no-go.

As for which to use, it really depends on what you are looking for in terms of information. The two are very different in terms of what they provide.

And, no, they aren't free. :p

Please see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Compatibility for links to some of the Windows VM solutions for Mac users...

I looked on awards for oneworld, and as I know its primitive, I searched the specific leg only.

i did look. am i right that you have to buy a 60 or 70 dollar program to run kvs on mac?

Essentially, yes. However, once you have it set-up, you can use it to run virtually any other Windows application, so the expense/effort required would not be attributable solely to the KVS Tool ;)

looking for a reason to choose one over the other
 

Ok first things first.. i'm not a techie so anything that involves installation is already on strike one.. I run windows; IE (all on my work computer and I can't change it.. work laptop is where I'd do this from since this is what I travel with).. and strike two is that if my laptop crashes.. which it has.. the techies only install company approved software.. hence they would not be reinstalling KVS.. so right now i'm starting with a lean to EF.. although the ads have pretty much brought KVS back into the picture

on that note

here is what I want from the tool I select

I am EXP on AA.. 3P on UA.. 95% of my flights will be on AA/OW carriers with 95% fo those on AA metal... I'm interested in AA data

the data I'm interested in; or the reason for this purchase would be

I want to take my two kids to Oz.. and Not In Y.. I'm looking for J/F tickets in 2011.. no specific dates but the summer (US Summer) or around breaks would be my starting point.. I've been researching and I don't care which way I go.. although all things being equal I would prefer JFK-SYD.. but again that is the wish list.. I'll take any route even the EZE route.

I also want to take said kids to HNL Aug 28, 2010 (give or take a day) to Sept 8 (+/- a day) and come back via LAX (stopover) on 9/12 (must be 9/12). I want buy these tickets and upgrade them with my VIP's

those two things are my primary agenda for this purchase.

other uses would be for AA 'X' fares on domestic flights; i'm also taking a couple IAD-DFW-LHR flights in May but in paid J.. thinking of using VIPs to F and it would be nice to see that inventory too...

I'm guessing it would show me by fare basis; availability on certain routes and certain dates when I'm doing personal travel (read football games) in order to find the lowest fares to purchase.

any ideas which way I should or should not lean? and why?

thanks

TH