Website to check class availability
 

The site I have always used, Transport and Travel, seems to be permanently down so I am desperately looking for another fare bucket which shows routes and class availability. I know about KVS but it is almost too complicated for my pea brain.

Does anyone know of another good site like T&T?

Thanks in advance.

expertflyer

Not really fare buckets, but core availability:

http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...lityByRoute.do

ExpertFlyer is great for $100/yr.

+1 on this. I use this every time i fly!

I've been happy w/ ExpertFlyer.

Can anyone give a capsule version as to pros and cons of EF vs KVS? Thanx!

I just ran 2 searches with no results. I must be doing something wrong if it works for others.

There are a number of comparisons out there. The biggest difference overall IMO is where the data comes from. KVS is generally screen-scraping publicly available websites and rendering the data in a different view. EF has direct access to various GDS feeds and gets the data that way. Depending on what you bits of functionality you want and what airlines you are interested in each has its advantages.

What are the search parameters you're using. Among other things, AA won't work because they don't publish their data into the underlying data source (FlightStats). Other than that it should pretty much work. But if you're having trouble I can definitely look into it. Feel free to PM me details if you don't want to share them here.

sbm12 pretty much said it all, it depends on what information you want. For example, since you're a DL Platinum Medallion, you may find ExpertFlyer's DL upgrade inventory display (V,G,Z,X) useful, especially since it isn't available via any other website or tool, not even DL.com. (Same for AA upgrades.) You can then use Flight Alerts to let you know when any award/upgrade inventory that we support opens up, also unique to ExpertFlyer.

We also have award availability for AF and, as soon as our GDS fixes one of their bugs, KLM as well. We also have full information for UA. However we don't have awards for CO and US.

Either way, you have to try it all out and see what works for you. ExpertFlyer offers a 5-day no credit card free trial. KVS doesn't publish one on his website, but maybe he will give you one if you ask. Also on ExpertFlyer you can sign up for a month at a time and deactivate/reactivate your account as needed if you don't fly that often, no worries.

Let me know if you have any questions.

It's a rather large "capsule" :), but here it goes:

Some of the advantages of the KVS Tool include:

• Incomparably wider award availability coverage in all 3 global alliances (see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Classes):
  
  
  • Available exclusively via KVS Tool (Awards):
    *A: LH/CO/US/OS/SK/TP/LO/JK/SQ/NH/OZ/TG/SA/MS/JP/OU/KF
    *O: BA/IB/MA/LA/4M/CX/KA/MX/JL
    *S: DL/KL/RO/VN
    **: UN/DE/MP/VG/YX/FJ/TL/FQ/OT
    
    
  • Available exclusively via KVS Tool (Upgrades):
    *A: LH/US/OS/SK/TP/LO/JK/SQ/NH/OZ/TG/SA/MS/JP/OU/KF
    *O: BA
    
    
  • Also available via KVS Tool (Awards):
    *A: AC/UA/LX/BD/NZ/SN/TK/A3/JJ/CA/FM
    *O: QF/AY
    *S: AF/OK/SU/CZ/KE/UX/KQ
    **: MH/LY/EI/AR/G3/EK/IT/AS/TN/HA/F9
    
    
  • Also available via KVS Tool (Upgrades):
    *A: AC/UA/LX/BD/NZ/SN/A3/CA/FM
    **: LY
    
    
  
  
• Multiple GDS & Point-of-Sale (POS) options for more relevant/accurate Availability and Fare data.
  
  
• 'Always-on' approach: No need to log-in (except for once every 6/12 months when renewing membership); users are never 'logged-out'.
  
  
• Keyboard shortcuts, which enable mouse-free interaction and can really speed things up.
  
  
• PNR Manager
  
  
• Reference Information Lookup:
  • Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]
  • Minimum Connection Time [MCT]
  
  
• Flight Operational Info (With Airline Comments)
  
  
• Visa/Immigration/Customs Information (TIMATIC)

[QUOTE What are the search parameters you're using. Among other things, AA won't work because they don't publish their data into the underlying data source (FlightStats). Other than that it should pretty much work. But if you're having trouble I can definitely look into it. Feel free to PM me details if you don't want to share them here.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I was trying for AA before. Just tried and worked for DL and others.

If you insist...

As sbm12 said "KVS is generally screen-scraping publicly available websites". So here's a partial list:

• *A - ANA.co.jp award search tool
• *O - Qantas.com.au
• *S - Delta.com
• Awards-Upgrades/X1 - United.com
• Awards/CX - CathayPacific.com
• Awards/M&M - Miles-and-More.com
• Awards/Delta - Delta.com
• Awards/SQ - Singaporeair.com
• Sabre/FS Method: FlightStats.com Availability Search
• Fares - DotRes - https://ww3.dotres.com/meridia?posid=7Y5A
• Fares - TVN - http://res.travelocity.ca/lognlogin.ctl?tr_module=FARE
• All free.

(And that's when they work, the website operators frequently put restrictions in place to prevent KVS from screen scraping their data.)

Also, if the *A/*O/BA/CX award searching is important, you can do all that with a great UI, for free at http://www.awardnexus.com

Not Exclusive. Not only does ExpertFlyer have a POS option in the Fare Information search, but we have access to 3 different GDSs for Flight Availability, with different POSs. Also, EF allows you to put in any POS in the Fare Information search. With KVS you are limited to the few supported by the OTA websites it screen scrapes from.

Starting up an application or starting up a web browser... unless you have a Mac or Linux, then you can't run KVS natively, as it's a Windows app.

However, and more importantly, we don't require users to sign up for long term subscriptions, you can use EF only for the months you need, and not have to pay when you don't need it.

Virtuallythere.com, ViewTrip.com, CheckMyTrip.com etc. These are sites that pull PNR's right from the GDS's, run for free by the GDSs.

Not for long... and MPM information is already in Fare Routing Rules. Also coming soon to the Fare Routing Rules, Ticketed Point Deduction information.

Again, not exclusive, we recently made an improvement to show full comments on supported airlines. KVS gets it for free here: http://thetravelconcern.travelasp.co...ts/tracker.asp

KVS gets that for free here: http://www.staralliance.com/en/servi...sa-and-health/

All that aside, here's another key difference in terms of real-world usefulness. Since ExpertFlyer connects directly to the GDSs we can do things like directly connect to airline host systems. This does things like allow us to access and show inventory beyond the usual 331 day limit. So by using ExpertFlyer you can see either award/upgrade inventory or regular inventory farther ahead then usual for airlines such as:
AC, AF, AY, AZ, BA, CX, EI, IB, LY, QF, SQ, etc... Just specify the airline as the only airline in the search and we take care of the rest behind the scenes, automatically. Flight Alerts also takes advantage of the increased date range as well.

Then of course there are all the other services that can't be screen scraped, like Seat Alerts, Flight Alerts, the mobile version at mobile.expertflyer.com, as well as the previously mentioned DL and AA upgrade inventory (probably very relevant to you). However we don't expect you to take our word for it, which is why we have a free trial.

Actually, for Mac or Linux users, it's a big difference, as KVS is Windoze-only (and emulators, regardless of what the authors say, are rarely a good option).

That was an extremely informative post! ^

+1 Thanks to EF.

We generally do not comment on competitors' products/services, as we find such tactics to be in a rather bad taste.

From http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_PR:
Nevertheless, we understand that some companies may feel that the only way they can make their product appear better is by launching propaganda campaigns against the competitor's products, and will address the present one below:

As was mentioned on numerous occasions previously, the KVS Tool does not do "screen-scraping", and never did.

P.S. Would you care to share which one of your "direct" GDS connections the U* award/upgrade data originally came from? ;)

Could you please demonstrate how would an EF user select a different GDS or POS option when doing an Availability query (where it actually matters)?

We are not aware of any graphical web browser in the world, which can be launched as fast as the native KVS Tool application, not to mention the time it takes to log-in:
That would have been a convincing argument, if the KVS Tool members were not good at math :):Not to mention that many KVS Tool members could not live without it for a day, let alone for a month :).


Actually, the PNR Manager supports both GDS PNRs as well as 18+ airline directly.As the saying goes, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery :).

Except that you cannot see any award or upgrade inventory for BA or CX or SQ (and many more, as listed above) on EF, while the KVS Tool members continue to enjoy their awards on these premium carriers, which they found via the KVS Tool.

Last night, after I wrote my last post, I was actually worried that I might have been too harsh. Thanks for taking care of that.

To address your points:

* PR - We actually spend a lot of effort on positive PR for ExpertFlyer. Maybe you've read some of these: http://www.expertflyer.com/expertflyer-news

BTW, we don't doctor our PR posts to remove mention of any competing service. Yes, we noticed that, classy. (Original video: http://bit.ly/dxiNqz Doctored one: http://bit.ly/akQMWv)

* "the KVS Tool does not do "screen-scraping", and never did." Your own User Agreement says otherwise:
Taking data from websites and using it in your application is the definition of screen scraping. Especially if they're not your websites.

* EF handles availability POS by choosing a GDS ahead of time. We use US based ones and a UK based one. One of the things we would like to do is allow users to change that on the fly. Based on the information on your website, your users also have 2 choices, USA or Japan.

* "Except that you cannot see any award or upgrade inventory for BA or CX or SQ"
Do you not know what the word OR means? As I previously said: "So by using ExpertFlyer you can see either award/upgrade inventory or regular inventory farther ahead..."

Say what you want, but none of your regular availability or Alliance award availability methods show anything beyond 331 days. Only UA, CX, and M&M can do that, and for those, users can get the same information on those websites directly, no tool required.

The other thing you can't do with KVS is specify any connecting cities. EF allows you to specify up to 2. Basics first.

--------

Now, you want to talk about price? Ok. First, when you take what isn't yours and don't pay for it, the cost is naturally $0. ExpertFlyer has fixed costs (running the business, servers, payroll, etc) and variable costs (GDS data). KVS doesn't pay for data, the websites it screen scrapes from do. It's not surprising that a business that doesn't have to pay any incremental costs for each unit sold can undercut their competition. It was different back when KVS was free, but that isn't the case anymore.

ExpertFlyer hasn't raised prices since our January 2005 launch. KVS on the other hand, recently eliminated it's Light version (which costed less). You used the loss of the ITN availability methods to charge your customers more, even though you don't pay for any of the GDS data regardless of method.

So who is paying for the GDS data? (Airline data is not free) Well that's the airlines and, more importantly, independent travel agents that operate the websites listed in my last post. We can debate feature sets all day long, but here's the real problem.

For example, as I previously mentioned the Sabre DotRes fares method screen scrapes from this website: https://ww3.dotres.com/meridia?posid=7Y5A Who are they? They are United Fairfax Travel, a brick-and-mortar travel agency in Fairfax Virginia. Say hi: http://www.ufxtravel.com/default.asp?sid=9068&pid=11545

Now as many of you know, travel agencies have been squeezed by the airlines in the last 5-10 years, it's not easy for them to stay in business these days. What doesn't make it any easier is the amount they have to spend in additional data costs because the KVS tool screen scrapes from their booking website.

How much? Using last months ExpertFlyer Fare Information transactions as a guide, and knowing how much fare and fare rules queries on Sabre cost, we calculate that KVS takes about $7,000 a year from their bottom line. That's real money, money that they now don't have to pay employees, pay bills, expand their business, etc. Normally travel agencies aren't charged for data as long as there are bookings after the searches (what's called a look to book ratio) however since the KVS tool doesn't give any type of payment, attribution, or link to their website so that maybe they can have a chance to get a booking or two out of it, it's all cost for them. Yes you can get the data by going to their website directly as well, but at least then they have a chance to get a booking from it. Maybe you should send them a thank you note, this isn't a faceless airline, I'm sure they will read it.

So you want to talk about what's in "bad taste"? How about you thinking it's ok to keep 100% of your revenues while sticking random unsuspecting travel agencies with the bill for the data that you take from their websites without them even knowing. Maybe you can find a term for that on Wikipedia too.

fozz and bhatnasx, you're welcome.

The issue is not positive PR, it's the negative PR.

This cannot be addressed without a specific post reference.

No, all it says is that the KVS Tool is "a specialized web browser".

As a web browser, the KVS Tool does neither "take data", nor "use it" in the screen-scraping sense.

From http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/User_agent:
And we also know what the term "misleading" means.

If they are masochists, perhaps. KVS Tool members tend to feel differently:
We see no merit in engaging in these continued attempts at black PR, or in addressing the factual and conceptual inaccuracies, which are just too numerous to list.

More importantly, these [mostly non-existing] issues are well-beyond the subject matter of this thread and we would like to keep it on-topic.

all jargon aside, it's irrelevant how many free sites one could go to to get the information that kvs offers. I gladly pay the $5 a month to not have to spend hours upon hours hours of extra time gathering the information from numerous sites. some of us have lives outside of checking for award availability.

False.
I call BS. Sorry, but when your view of the world is that you're a "specialized web browser" that takes data from one source, completely reformats it and presents it in a completely different layout just so you can claim to be a "user agent" that's actually rather ridiculous. Read that post on what a User Agent specifies and you'll see that it generally identifies folks who actually write a specific browser, not just folks who reuse the one built in to the operating system to access a collection of random other sites.

The reality is that your application launches an instance of IE to collect the data from the remote web server and then reformats it and displays it to your customers. You're not a user agent. You've got an app that reads data off other sites and formats it as though it is your own.

A more relevant wiki article would be the one on Web Scraping which includes nuggets such as this gem:

If you're really going to deny that your app is doing exactly this then you're really missing out on that river in Egypt.

I'm not saying that some folks won't find value in the tools that you offer. But to claim that you're not simply repackaging data that other folks are paying for and taking 100% of the profit for all the "donations" you solicit is, at best, disingenuous.

This whole debate is rather amusing, particularly this part:Call it any fancy name you want, but what it's doing is exactly the same as screen scraping. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's a duck :p

KVS: still need application on every computer?
I used KVS years ago and was completely satisfied.... until I left home and started travelling. At that point, you had to have KVS downloaded onto every computer that you wanted to use it from.

This meant that I couldn't access it from a hotel lounge, a friend's, or any internet cafe's terminals. I don't know if this has changed since then, or not.

Bottom line is that I need to access the data from ANY COMPUTER. If KVS offers/offered its product from a web browser like firefox & mobile phone's, then it would again be functional FOR MY NEEDS.

Expert Flyer is good, but lack of loyalty bonus tones down my excitement.
I've now used Expert Flyer for yeeeeears. It's good. Meets my needs most of the time (the TG availability is often wrong).

But EF is too expensive. I don't mean that $10 a month is terribly high. My feeling is that they should give their continuous clients a bit of a break. After 5+ years of continuous use, a loyal FT or a longterm prepaid rate would help the pinch. We've done good by them, and they've done good by us. If they're now in a better position than before, why not help the customers that stuck with them?

Hmmm... I have always used http://www.flyaow.com/classamex.htm which is now discontinued. But whe I go to that page, I am invited to join KVS. If KVS does that (and apparently much more), then it seems a good option to me.

But my understanding is that the old tool came directly from Amadeus. No ? And what about KVS ?

Can either KVS or ExpertFlyer, or something else, offer me the ability to actually have Amadeus more or less ? Like I type AN22SEPZRHDXB/ALX and I get the result ? There must be someone out there offering read-only Amadeus access, no ?

Please advise.

We just launched the KVS Tool Mobile Companion, which can be used for checking Availability on any web-enabled device when you are on-the-go (incl. iPhone, BlackBerry and Android) -- please see http://www.KVSTool.com/Mobile-Companion-Info.php for more info and screenshots.

It sure does!

That Amadeus command becomesin the KVS Tool.

delete....

If you sign up for a year of ExpertFlyer service you only pay for 10 months ($8.33/mo).

We do. Not only have our prices not increased once since our launch in 2005, even in the face of increased costs, but we have continually added new features to the service at that same price point. Some of those features, like Flight & Seat Alerts, come at a significant cost to us since each GDS query has a cost associated to it, however we feel it's good business to return value to our subscribers who invest in us.


ExpertFlyer has direct access to multiple GDSs. It comes at a cost, but we believe it's worth it as it allows us to offer unique services and data. The search functions of ExpertFlyer use those same exact commands that you are referring to, however giving direct access to the GDS commands isn't something that we want to do, or that the GDSs would even allow us to do.

Thanks. Have been looking around for couple of months now for something like this.

Or just get the same information for free from someone who isn't so arrogant as to suggest that rebranding data from another site is somehow generating real content on their own. But maybe I'm biased based on the horrible interactions I've had with KVS in the past.

It really depends on which features/functions you're looking for.

Yes -- and it's hard to beat FREE.

^^

Thank you to both of the KVS & EF for answering my questions.

:)

Yes.

You also need the KVS server not to be down when it checks that you're allowed to run the app, which exposes KVS's "no need to log in" claim as a rather poor joke.

When did this stop working:
http://publicbackup.com/shared/flyertalk/availability/

Always liked it above seatcounter (which is also down). I have EF basic but prefer to save my searches for award rather than std avail. Any other free tools out there? Flightstats is too basic (core bucket vs each fare bucket) and:

http://tools.wanderingaramean.com/To...Inventory.aspx

doesn't seem to be working. Ideas?

Thanks.

Not to restart the debate but...
 

How to both sites stack on on DL/Skyteam availabaility?

Cheers!

Only the KVS Tool has a nearly-complete SkyTeam award availability coverage (incl. DL): http://Help.KVSTool.com/#AwardUpgradeClasses_SkyTeam

wanderingaramean.com
 

The site says it is offline. Will signing up lead me to the site that is active.

Also what is the cost of using this service?

The only source for DL award availability is Delta.com, anything else is derived from that.

And DL.com is broken at best for finding low...