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-   -   Reactivation Issue: Microsoft Must Burn in Hell! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology/649913-reactivation-issue-microsoft-must-burn-hell.html)

Capite Jan 20, 2007 8:47 pm


Originally Posted by ScottC (Post 7059820)
Activating XP is an anonymous process and no information is required. The request for a name and number were made by the support department...you can call yourself any name you want

This does seem reasonable, but my guess is that they really want this information so that they can keep track of how many times you need activation, and whether it is the same person activating each time. If they just wanted to a way to keep track of the support instance, they could just generate a case number and give it to you. I think what they really want to do is bust you if you try to sell your software to someone else.

So if you give a fake name/number, I'd write it down on the product package or sticker it on the computer, so that you can provide it again the next time.

EDIT: if it is true that they don't ask for your personal info when you phone the number from the Activation Wizard (I just can't remember), then I guess it pops my Big Brother from the Evil Empire theory.

PTravel Jan 20, 2007 9:10 pm


Originally Posted by bluemonq (Post 7059492)
The kind where, despite whatever misgivings they have, the customers keep sucking at that business's teat.

I don't know. Maybe you *are* a special case. Maybe you're part of that small group of computer users that truly can't use WINE or run alternatives to the programs that you're using, and aren't a large enough client to convince the developer to code it for a different OS. I guess all I can say is, "damn, that sucks; sorry I can't do a thing for you".

My video editing suite is, for the most part, Windows-only. It is CPU-, hardware and memory intensive, and I can't imagine getting equivalent performance on a Mac running an emulator as I do on my 3 GHz P4 if, in fact, my software will run at all (a number of programs bypass the OS and make direct hardware calls, require DirectX and other Window-specific drivers, etc.). This is my hobby -- no developer is going to write code for me.


But I would venture to say there's a good number of people who run the same software you do who have the same frustrations. It may be that the time is now to band together and give the developers a piece of your (collective) mind. With software that specialized, I would think you wouldn't have to bring that big a group together to motivate the developer.
The issue isn't the specialization of software, but Microsoft's improper business tactics to ensure its near-monopoly position with respect to commercial OSs. I really believe this latest crosses the line. If my copy of XP refused to run under circumstances where either (1) I needed it urgently, or (2) I wasn't anywhere that I could contact Microsoft to handle this by phone, I wouldn't be writing this post, but would be drafting a law suit.

magiciansampras Jan 20, 2007 9:15 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 7060073)
The issue isn't the specialization of software, but Microsoft's improper business tactics to ensure its near-monopoly position with respect to commercial OSs. I really believe this latest crosses the line. If my copy of XP refused to run under circumstances where either (1) I needed it urgently, or (2) I wasn't anywhere that I could contact Microsoft to handle this by phone, I wouldn't be writing this post, but would be drafting a law suit.

What difference do those two conditions make? Why not sue anyway? It's the principle, man.

PTravel Jan 20, 2007 9:25 pm


Originally Posted by ScottC (Post 7059820)
Changing the NIC means the system has undergone a hardware change, and the OP said he had done some stuff to hard drives as well, so the system determined enough had changed that it wanted to be reactivated. No big deal IMHO and most certainly not "absurd".

The motherboard, CPU, and support chips didn't change, and those would be far more indicative of installation on another computer than a NIC, hard drives, graphics cards, or other readily- and often-upgraded components.


Activating XP is an anonymous process and no information is required. The request for a name and number were made by the support department, to me it seems only reasonable that someone providing support over the phone knows a) who they are dealing with and b) who to call back if a call drops.
Absolutely wrong. They have no need to know who they are dealing with, beyond that I am a customer of Microsoft, and that is readily verified by asking me for such things as my key code and product ID, both of which are found on the original installation CDs. As for calling me back, I'll take my chances, rather than disclosing my personal home phone number to an entity that I do not trust and that may use that number for telemarketing or worse.

More to the point, and one you completely miss, is neither my license to use the software, the express warranty provided by Microsoft, nor the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, condition their enforceability on my provision of personal information such as my full name (including middle name) and home telephone number. By so requiring, Microsoft breached its license and the various warranties that I've identified here.


Providing this information to open a support case is the most normal thing in the world, but since it is Microsoft asking it I guess it is seen as the most terrible intrusion into someones private life and worthy of lawsuits.
Maybe it's normal to you. It's not to me. I don't give out my home phone number to anyone except friends, families, doctors and others with a specific need to know. Maybe you don't mind if your telephone becomes a public sidewalk, but I do. You're also, apparently, unaware of the legal requirements of federal do-not-call list, which I take advantage of. As a matter of law, telemarketers can call you if there is a prior business relationship. I don't want Microsoft telemarketers calling me, nor do I want any of their partners, assignees, heirs, licensees or franchisees using my telephone as their free advertising portal into my home.


I don't think any company will give tech support over the phone without at least knowing who they are dealing with.
I don't know any company that won't. On those few instances when I need technical support, yes, I am always asked for my name, and, no, I never give it, other than my first name for the purpose of facilitating the communication. I've only had support withheld twice -- once by Microsoft (about which I've written here), and once by Sony, though only for as long as it took me to fax a demand letter to Sony USA. Of particular interest is the fact that, in both instances, I was dealing with the Indian help desk of these respective companies.


You can call yourself any name you want, but at least don't make those poor call center rep's life even more miserable by playing legal eagle on the phone with them, they are only there to help them. By not helping them with a simple request you invalidate IMHO the right to complain how long the call takes.
Sorry, I don't lie just for the sake of making things easier. Apparently, we have different standards about a lot of things.

PTravel Jan 20, 2007 9:27 pm


Originally Posted by magiciansampras (Post 7060104)
What difference do those two conditions make? Why not sue anyway? It's the principle, man.

As I tell my clients, "Never sue on principle." :)

murphy Jan 20, 2007 9:30 pm


Originally Posted by bluemonq (Post 7059492)
The kind where, despite whatever misgivings they have, the customers keep sucking at that business's teat.

I don't know. Maybe you *are* a special case. Maybe you're part of that small group of computer users that truly can't use WINE or run alternatives to the programs that you're using, and aren't a large enough client to convince the developer to code it for a different OS. I guess all I can say is, "damn, that sucks; sorry I can't do a thing for you".

But I would venture to say there's a good number of people who run the same software you do who have the same frustrations. It may be that the time is now to band together and give the developers a piece of your (collective) mind. With software that specialized, I would think you wouldn't have to bring that big a group together to motivate the developer.

Of course, the whole lot of you might not have the time, money, or effort to spare. In which case, things will stay as they are. Oh well, it's not like things can get much worse...right?

I'm with you. Why continue to do business with a company that treats you like a criminal? Windows product activation isn't particularly effective in preventing piracy. It does a great job at getting in the way of legitimate users though.

PTravel Jan 20, 2007 9:30 pm


Originally Posted by Capite (Post 7059990)
This does seem reasonable, but my guess is that they really want this information so that they can keep track of how many times you need activation,

That can be tracked by the Product ID and keycode.


and whether it is the same person activating each time.
Irrelevant. The license is transferrable by its own terms.


If they just wanted to a way to keep track of the support instance, they could just generate a case number and give it to you.
They could indeed.

What ScottC is losing sight of is that this was not a support call. Software that they had installed on my computer disabled it, despite the fact that I held a valid license to use the OS. Piracy protection is one thing. Breach of license is something altogether different, as is hacking a computer to install a virus.


I think what they really want to do it bust you if you try to sell your software to someone else.
Actually, no. As long as you remove the OS from your computer, you can sell it to someone else without violating Microsoft's express license or its policies.

PTravel Jan 20, 2007 9:32 pm


Originally Posted by ScottC (Post 7059974)
Exactly. I've spoken with the manual activation people 100's of times, and not once did they want to know who I am. Like I said, the request for personal information came from the support department.

To which I was transferred after calling Microsoft, speaking with someone in the US (who asked for, but didn't insist, on my name and phone number), and explaining that I needed re-activation.

lmz00 Jan 20, 2007 9:50 pm


Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 7059405)
First, it isnt like they are typically major changes. Second, why ask for a problem for a minimal change. Also to pay for said change/problems.

I suppose you have a point... I guess it's just my "need" to always have the latest everything, software included. That, and I'm fortunate enough to only have to pay about $20 for Office (and $10 for Windows). :)

Wilbur Jan 20, 2007 10:17 pm

I recently purchased an Apple hardware product for my wife.

My attempt to use it in the manner illustrated in the instructions resulted in a two-week odyssey of idiocy involving calls, emails, visits to stores and US Mail letters to both Apple and Microsoft. Their respective attempts to control my use of my legally-purchased and wholly-owned hardware, software and content were incredible.

Since then I have become much more sympathetic towards the hacker community and their ethos.

GadgetFreak Jan 20, 2007 10:20 pm


Originally Posted by Wilbur (Post 7060345)
I recently purchased an Apple hardware product for my wife.

My attempt to use it in the manner illustrated in the instructions resulted in a two-week odyssey of idiocy involving calls, emails, visits to stores and US Mail letters to both Apple and Microsoft. Their respective attempts to control my use of my legally-purchased and wholly-owned hardware, software and content were incredible.

Since then I have become much more sympathetic towards the hacker community and their ethos.

Apple and Microsoft? Give me a hint? :)

bluemonq Jan 20, 2007 10:21 pm


Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 7060351)
Apple and Microsoft? Give me a hint? :)

iPod? Hmm... unless he's talking about Boot Camp... but Apple doesn't officially support that, do they?

Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 7060073)
My video editing suite is, for the most part, Windows-only. It is CPU-, hardware and memory intensive, and I can't imagine getting equivalent performance on a Mac running an emulator as I do on my 3 GHz P4 if, in fact, my software will run at all (a number of programs bypass the OS and make direct hardware calls, require DirectX and other Window-specific drivers, etc.).

Careful - nowhere did I suggest running an emulator. I suggested WINE, whose recursive acronym happens to be, "Wine Is Not an Emulator." It allows you to access Windows API while using some FreeBSD, Solaris, or - the best part - your favorite flavor of Linux. In real-world usage, as long as the program wasn't designed too shodily, there isn't much of a performance difference, assuming it runs, of course. WINE plays decently well with DirectX; with other drivers, YMMV.

In case you're interested: WINE HQ

BTW, what video editing suite are you running?

lmz00 Jan 20, 2007 10:25 pm


Originally Posted by Wilbur (Post 7060345)
I recently purchased an Apple hardware product for my wife.

My attempt to use it in the manner illustrated in the instructions resulted in a two-week odyssey of idiocy involving calls, emails, visits to stores and US Mail letters to both Apple and Microsoft. Their respective attempts to control my use of my legally-purchased and wholly-owned hardware, software and content were incredible.

Since then I have become much more sympathetic towards the hacker community and their ethos.

Was it an iPod by any chance?

phlflyer927 Jan 20, 2007 10:27 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 7060187)
To which I was transferred after calling Microsoft, speaking with someone in the US (who asked for, but didn't insist, on my name and phone number), and explaining that I needed re-activation.

I don't know if you've looked at this page http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro...e/xpactiv.mspx , It may answer a few questions of why certain things trigger re-activation etc.

Low-tier support for a lot of companies, and in this case MS, has suffered greatly with the shifts to offshore support. I did note that you mentioned actually going through a US call center, and aside from just bad luck, I can't explain it away. You probably just got someone who just didn't know how to fix your probem as they don't see a high volume of activation problems. Since the activation wizard will direct you to call a specific phone number, those calls don't go through the general support queue.

Hopefully if you run into a similar problem in the future, you can have it resolved quicker in this way.

Just as a side note. If anyone pissed at dealing with activations in WinXP, you're going to hate Vista. Several of the licensing methods will cause it to activate frequently, not just when you make hardware changes. Known pirated keys will be decativated in a more aggressive manner than how they are handled currently.

If you like/need the OS, it's just the sort of thing you have to live with. Personally I'll use just about any OS (anyone remember BeOS, I still have it), but I actually like Windows the most.

ScottC Jan 20, 2007 11:07 pm


Originally Posted by Capite (Post 7059990)
This does seem reasonable, but my guess is that they really want this information so that they can keep track of how many times you need activation, and whether it is the same person activating each time. If they just wanted to a way to keep track of the support instance, they could just generate a case number and give it to you. I think what they really want to do it bust you if you try to sell your software to someone else.

So if you give a fake name/number, I'd write it down on the product package or sticker it on the computer, so that you can provide it again the next time.

EDIT: if it is true that they don't ask for your personal info when you phone the number from the Activation Wizard (I just can't remember), then I guess it pops my Big Brother from the Evil Empire theory.

Never, not once have I been asked for any kind of personal information when re-installing XP. Like I said earlier, I have one key here that has been activated over and over again (my test key). The only question they ever ask is whether the old machine it was installed on will not be used with that key, I tell them that the old machine has been erased and that this is the only machine the key is being used on.

Never had a single problem.


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