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Originally Posted by tmiw
(Post 32502800)
It'll be interesting to see what happens if 5G doesn't fully live up to its promises (that is, something like speeds ultimately not being much better than the current options and/or pricing not really decreasing despite additional "competition"). Will that end up forcing the country to finally roll out fiber to a much wider extent than has already been done?
BTW, the most annoying part IMO: AT&T Fiber is actually available in some parts of where I live. However, they hit the 11 million or so availability number the government required as part of the DirecTV deal prior to reaching my neighborhood, so they stopped expanding it further. :rolleyes: In fact, they put up what looks like a mmWave 5G cell on the light pole outside of my condo complex and actually ran fiber just for it (and not the U-Verse cabinets next to it); it seems like it wouldn't have been too much more effort just to convert the people using U-Verse in this area to Fiber. |
Originally Posted by lsquare
(Post 32510332)
So far, 5G haven’t lived up to the hype. The industry have already said that it won’t be practical to deploy 5G MM-wave nationwide due to cost. It’ll only be used in highly urbanized and densely populated parts of the country. Since cost is always going to be an issue, the government will have to act.
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Originally Posted by tmiw
(Post 32510560)
T-Mobile at least has enough sub-6GHz spectrum now (thanks to Sprint) that they might be able to have some success with 5G. We'll see.
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Originally Posted by lsquare
(Post 32510585)
The lower frequencies that you mentioned will not deliver fiber-like speeds. It will help with coverage, but won't ever match up the 5G hype that's been made.
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Originally Posted by tmiw
(Post 32510640)
It doesn't need to be gigabit speeds to make a difference, though initial speed tests on T-Mobile do show peaks getting close. The bigger advantage, IMO, is providing additional options that can reasonably compete with what most people get on the cable side (and thus hopefully allowing enough competition to get our pricing closer to what other developed countries see).
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Originally Posted by lsquare
(Post 32510643)
What about bandwidth? There's only so much to go around to ensure that everyone gets decent performance.
In any case, we'll see whether people are ultimately satisfied with their service. |
Originally Posted by tmiw
(Post 32510777)
If you take a look at the link, they're using 40MHz of bandwidth (about ~1/3 of what they own depending on the area of the country). Spinning up another 80MHz should help, at least for a time. Not to mention that it's possible to use unlicensed spectrum for 5G as well.
In any case, we'll see whether people are ultimately satisfied with their service. |
Originally Posted by lsquare
(Post 32511069)
Wireless will still not have as much capacity as a wired network. Will there be data caps? Ultimately, I remain unconvinced that 5G will be the answer. Maybe SpaceX will help. I still think the government will need to subsidize in order to narrow the digital divide.
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Originally Posted by lsquare
(Post 32511069)
Wireless will still not have as much capacity as a wired network. Will there be data caps? Ultimately, I remain unconvinced that 5G will be the answer. Maybe SpaceX will help. I still think the government will need to subsidize in order to narrow the digital divide.
Point is, there ARE subsidies, and that money is not being used to upgrade our national infrastructure. It's an embarrassment of the highest order to think that the country that literally invented the internet, cannot provide the internet to it's citizens despite billions and billions of dollars spent to subsidize that internet. |
MM wave is a joke. Your hand effectively blocks it. The walls and windows of your home block it. The windows of my car block it. Tree leaves block it. Unless you're in an area where people are on-foot, outdoors, in clear air, it doesn't make sense. Verizon's tried lighting up a few NFL stadiums with it and still can't cover an entire stadium with it.
Besides the obvious (more, smaller towers) I think the future lies in the past -- data compression. It's how we got more speed out of dial-up modems and with today's processors and algorithms we should be able to do it again. |
Originally Posted by KRSW
(Post 32514521)
MM wave is a joke. Your hand effectively blocks it. The walls and windows of your home block it. The windows of my car block it. Tree leaves block it. Unless you're in an area where people are on-foot, outdoors, in clear air, it doesn't make sense. Verizon's tried lighting up a few NFL stadiums with it and still can't cover an entire stadium with it.
Besides the obvious (more, smaller towers) I think the future lies in the past -- data compression. It's how we got more speed out of dial-up modems and with today's processors and algorithms we should be able to do it again. Also, streaming video is already pretty heavily compressed. I'm not sure we can get much more out of that approach without significant degradation in quality. |
Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Jeff
(Post 32514283)
Subsidize what, exactly? Broadband in general? We (through tax dollars) have subsidized it, to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars a year since the Clinton era. The Telcos (Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, et al) have been sucking up all that money intended to subsidize improving and expanding broadband in the US into rural areas and producing nothing in return. Broadband in rural areas is only marginally available today compared to where it was in the '90s and early 2000's. And I'm not talking about rural in the sense of some middle of nowhere town in rural Texas, or somewhere in Wyoming... I'm taking about even where I live, nestled right next to Chapel Hill, Durham and Raleigh, NC (The Research Triangle area). My county, literally next door to one of the east coast's major technology hubs, STILL has areas that are only served by dial-up, or at best 25Mb/s DSL. No cable, no faster DSL. The only options for many in my county are Century Link's embarrassingly slow DSL, or satellite with the exorbitant costs, data caps, and other issues unique to satellite internet. Even a 4G hot spot is not an option for many, because Verizon service is fairly dodgy, due to lack of towers to provide blanket coverage, and towers that don't always work and take weeks to months to get fixed. 5G is still a decade off here, because they'd HAVE to increase the tower count in order to provide even basic 5G coverage, and they can't even get enough towers up for 4G/LTE today.
Point is, there ARE subsidies, and that money is not being used to upgrade our national infrastructure. It's an embarrassment of the highest order to think that the country that literally invented the internet, cannot provide the internet to it's citizens despite billions and billions of dollars spent to subsidize that internet. |
Originally Posted by tmiw
(Post 32514535)
Home internet would also make using fixed exterior antennas viable, so signal strength might not be as big of an issue with mmWave as it is when trying to use it on a phone. Of course, that would probably preclude self-installation by the end user.
Also, streaming video is already pretty heavily compressed. I'm not sure we can get much more out of that approach without significant degradation in quality. |
Originally Posted by KRSW
(Post 32514521)
MM wave is a joke. Your hand effectively blocks it. The walls and windows of your home block it. The windows of my car block it. Tree leaves block it. Unless you're in an area where people are on-foot, outdoors, in clear air, it doesn't make sense. Verizon's tried lighting up a few NFL stadiums with it and still can't cover an entire stadium with it.
Besides the obvious (more, smaller towers) I think the future lies in the past -- data compression. It's how we got more speed out of dial-up modems and with today's processors and algorithms we should be able to do it again. |
I'm not sure what we need more speed at this point. I've gotten as high as 216Mbps with T-Mobile using an unlocked (non-TMO), ratty S7 phone. Typical for me is ~35Mbps, which is more than sufficient for anything I've ever needed it for. For that matter, I only have 10Mbps connections at my homes and it's more than enough to do 4K.
Originally Posted by tmiw
(Post 32514535)
Home internet would also make using fixed exterior antennas viable, so signal strength might not be as big of an issue with mmWave as it is when trying to use it on a phone.
It's been ~25 or so years since I played with media compression...but it was thought that MP3 was the best audio compression we could do. I came up with a modified form of it which gave an additional 60-70% reduction over MP3. Your mobile phone has this codec today. Unfortunately, I didn't patent it at the time. ::facepalm:: I have no doubt that we're far from done with data compression algorithms.
Originally Posted by lsquare
(Post 32514644)
It’s embarrassing that the US can’t provide every one of its own citizens with decent internet infrastructure. It’s ridiculous that Asia have better internet infrastructure. I know cost is often cited an example. However, it’s not like the US is a poor country.
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